Ian Perrie, support needed

[Crow-mo]

I hope your tongue is currently planted firmly in cheek.

I've heard many an idiot on here and at games bag players who are first 18 stalwarts.

Simple fact of the matter is, the average supporter will always have preconceived notions as to an individual player's worth, ability or potential. More often than not, these notions will turn out to be wrong.

Even when they are in fact proven to be wrong by the player's subsequent performance or a factual recollection of the player's past deeds, these supporters will almost always stick to their guns, rather than be swayed by the evidence, reassess their claims and opinions or at least be prepared to wait and see in future.

There are people on this board who'd still dump Shirley tomorrow if it meant giving the likes of Douglas a free lunch in the guts.

I myself have been guilty of this in the past in regards to Ken McGregor, but when he acquitted himself extremely well first at CHB and then as a contested CHF/FF I changed my opinion.

Michael Doughty was another one. I was often infuriated by some of his football in 2003/4, considering him to a player who wouldn't put his head over the footy when he should. However he improved out of sight from 2005-onwards, to the point where he even changed his approach to an often fierce attack on the ball - and as such I consider him to be a valuable member of the lineup.

I get the feeling from some on here - the same ones who obviously didn't see any of our games in 2005 - that Perrie could win the Coleman and they'd still deem him a dud not worthy of an invitation to the Slowdown circa 2015.

Opinions on football should be dynamic. There's no point even discussing the game otherwise.

DT,

that is a great post.

Particularly with regards to the fluidity of player perceptions; when a maligned player delivers, it is only fair that gets reflected.

is it that much to ask.

 

[Crow-mo]

I agree in relation to performance ......on the matter of talent I'd question that concept.

but you don't care about performance, only talent.

and don't go denying it now

 

[Crow-mo]

All of the players you mentioned have been bagged form time to time but not as passionately as poor Ian.

that's a convenient fiction. "oh, but somehow, it's different with this player. this time, he's really bad".

None of them have been booed which, disgraceful as it is, must tell us something.

only if it suits you, and you have no other refuge for a preconception not borne out with any other facts.

The reason is that they may not be champions but they don't regularly spill easy marks and miss gimme goals. I actually told the guy next to me at the game that Perrie would miss from 20, which you wouldn't have said of anyone else in the team.

if it is your belief that Perrie is the worst kick in the team, it shows how divorced you are from reality. or actual data

Nathan Bock used to get a bagging for being rubber chested but he did something about it. Perhaps Perrie can too but we've been waiting a long time.

did he really?

when was this? it certainly wasn't 2005 when rubber chested Perrie took 70% more marks per game, while averaging the same number of disposals. goals don't count as Bock played down back.

was it in 2006 when both players were reduced by injury to 7 & 8 games respectively. which I'd argue makes the comparison null, but for arguments sake - rubber chested still outmarked Bock. They had the same shots on goal, and Bock averaged 2 more touches a game. Big deal!

so where is the miraculous improvement that Bock made, that Perrie hasn't?????

stats are the natural enemy of guesswork.

 

[Crow-mo]

Don't get confused between talent and other issues like disposal, attitude, and of course team need.

How many scores of 17/18 year old champion kids have we seen go on to be complete flops ......it was rarely due to talent, generally most had the attitude of star players all their junior life and had lost the work effort required to continue developing and importantly learning.

But this completely undermines your bias towards talent.

by your own admission, it is not enough - but you assess players only on this basis?

 

[Mad Dog]

I am getting sick of all the so called Crows fans bagging Perrie. We all know he has his limtations, but remember

he tries 100%

In 2005 he played an excellent year, 38 goals. He plays his best football working up the ground and therfore needs to be fit, recent injuries have made that more difficult.

Sunday if he had kicked the 2 goals in front (and he should have) his game would have been ok. We are thin on marking forwards and he should be supported, not bagged. His perfomance was far better than Scotty Welsh who looked awful on the weekend and is only in the team through injury. In fact unless Scotty can lift (hope he can, he is one of our few natural goalkickers) his AFL career will end when Roo returns

Suporting a team means support when things are going well and when they are not. Lay off Perrie

after 10 years on an AFL list - there are no excuses.

I don't like bagging Perrie - but the facts are - there is no more improvement left in this player. What you see now is his maximum potential. If we're happy with that then fine..............if we're not .........then time to move on. After 10 years at the highest level..........you shouldn't need 10 weeks in the SANFL to get your confidence up and radar in...............thats just excuses.

 

[crowsarethebest]

What about Perrie down back? Played a bit there for a period of time a while back... It might get him back into match fitness and maybe get some of his footy nous back.

 

[CrowMagnum]

What about Perrie down back? Played a bit there for a period of time a while back... It might get him back into match fitness and maybe get some of his footy nous back.

Did you see how he played though? No recovery after the contest. Has been marked as "Never to go down back again".

 

[Crow Envy]

after 10 years on an AFL list - there are no excuses.

I don't like bagging Perrie - but the facts are - there is no more improvement left in this player. What you see now is his maximum potential. If we're happy with that then fine..............if we're not .........then time to move on. After 10 years at the highest level..........you shouldn't need 10 weeks in the SANFL to get your confidence up and radar in...............thats just excuses.

Well said Mad Dog, I agree with you, but I wonder if you will get your opinion disected and scrutinised for not including facts

 

[CrowMagnum]

that's a convenient fiction. "oh, but somehow, it's different with this player. this time, he's really bad".



only if it suits you, and you have no other refuge for a preconception not borne out with any other facts.



if it is your belief that Perrie is the worst kick in the team, it shows how divorced you are from reality. or actual data



did he really?

when was this? it certainly wasn't 2005 when rubber chested Perrie took 70% more marks per game, while averaging the same number of disposals. goals don't count as Bock played down back.

was it in 2006 when both players were reduced by injury to 7 & 8 games respectively. which I'd argue makes the comparison null, but for arguments sake - rubber chested still outmarked Bock. They had the same shots on goal, and Bock averaged 2 more touches a game. Big deal!

so where is the miraculous improvement that Bock made, that Perrie hasn't?????

stats are the natural enemy of guesswork.

Usual crap dissection of a post.

Maligned players are maligned for a reason. If they rectify their problems they stop being maligned. If they don't they'll continue to be criticised, its that simple.

And we're not in 2005 everyone, we're in 2007

 

[Crow-mo]

Usual crap dissection of a post.

ha ha. gosh, stop. my sides are splitting.
wait, that wasn't a serious attempt at a response was it?

by crap I guess you mean: "whoops, you caught me talking out of my arse". ?

Maligned players are maligned for a reason. If they rectify their problems they stop being maligned. If they don't they'll continue to be criticised, its that simple.

cheap and lazy platitude. most supporters are idiots, and seeing as you want to go by a vox populi of idiots... well you do the math.

And we're not in 2005 everyone, we're in 2007

round 1 I believe.

 

[Crow-mo]

Well said Mad Dog, I agree with you, but I wonder if you will get your opinion disected and scrutinised for not including facts

1. there is a difference between not using facts, and not knowing them.
2. read his post again, and you might see the difference. or maybe you won't.

Mad Dog, correct me if I'm wrong, has stated he has no more improvement in him - which is probably correct. Further he has expressed frustration that it takes him a while to get into form - which is generally accepted, and people are divided on whether that is a damning thing, or a reason for a slow start.

but hey, you read that anyway you want

 

[Crow Envy]

1. there is a difference between not using facts, and not knowing them.
2. read his post again, and you might see the difference. or maybe you won't.

Mad Dog, correct me if I'm wrong, has stated he has no more improvement in him - which is probably correct. Further he has expressed frustration that it takes him a while to get into form - which is generally accepted, and people are divided on whether that is a damning thing, or a reason for a slow start.

but hey, you read that anyway you want

You do realise this is Big Footy dont you? Not every post has to be supported by a history of facts, people are allowed to have an opinion. But you seem to turn every post into an opportunity to show off your grasp of the english language. We arent on the high school debating team.

 

[Crow-mo]

You do realise this is Big Footy dont you? Not every post has to be supported by a history of facts, people are allowed to have an opinion. But you seem to turn every post into an opportunity to show off your grasp of the english language. We arent on the high school debating team.

not every post has to be supported by facts, just those that claim to represent them. or even, those that completely fly in the face of them.

let me explain:

1. geez it's frustrating, and I reckon it costs us too much, because it takes him so long to find form.
that's an opinion, both personally expressed, and in accordance with generally accepted facts.

2. he's proven over and over again he's not good enough.
this is just a lazy and stupid statement, which pretends to represent fact - but omits them because they don't support. though I question the last bit, people who repeatedly make things up, are not likely to be in the habit of ever looking something up to have omitted it.

if you're ignoring or contradicting something that is generally accepted or can be supported by those pesky facts, then you better have something to show for why you think it is this way. yes it takes the fun out of things, but hey

 

[fightingdreamer88]

sometimes I can't believe the crap I read, and even more when it comes from one source.

we shouldn't settle for less than Kerr & Judd, where pray tell do you think we will get these type of guys from?

the magic faraway tree perhaps?

oh wait, that's right, we have a dozen of them already on our list.

You have no idea if we have a couple of future stars like them sitting on our list. We've got to try them, and when you've got players giving you nothing but inconsistency for years and years like Perrie and Welsh, why the hell would you NOT want to try the kids? This shows how short-sighted you are....the faraway tree? What you are implying is that we must stick with Welsh and Perrie (and others) because we haven't got players of the calibre of Kerr or Judd ready to come in. WHY NOT DEVELOP SOME INSTEAD OF STICKING WITH THESE INCONSISTENT BUFFOONS??? You have to admit this, you have to admit that in saying what you're saying you are effectively accepting the mediocrity we have to cop every week from these waste-of-time players (who have been proven wastes of time over many years). I would MUCH rather search our list out for the next Judd or Kerr or Johnathon Brown than sit here watching guys like Welsh and Perrie deny our kids opportunities.

Oh, and btw, you can sit there and say that I'm jumping on them after only one game, but it's been going on for years. YEARS. And you know this!! I'm tired of supporters like you just taking it as a given that we are to persist with inconsistent players. We may not KNOW if Porplyzia or Vince or Douglas or Knights or whoever can become as good as the Judds or Kerrs of the footy world, but we KNOW, after YEARS OF TRYING, that Welsh and Perrie are not good enough. So give the kids a chance. You know I'm right, stop accepting this mediocre crap!!

 

[fightingdreamer88]

not every post has to be supported by facts, just those that claim to represent them. or even, those that completely fly in the face of them.

let me explain:

1. geez it's frustrating, and I reckon it costs us too much, because it takes him so long to find form.
that's an opinion, both personally expressed, and in accordance with generally accepted facts.

2. he's proven over and over again he's not good enough.
this is just a lazy and stupid statement, which pretends to represent fact - but omits them because they don't support. though I question the last bit, people who repeatedly make things up, are not likely to be in the habit of ever looking something up to have omitted it.

if you're ignoring or contradicting something that is generally accepted or can be supported by those pesky facts, then you better have something to show for why you think it is this way. yes it takes the fun out of things, but hey

You are being ridiculously pedantic. Anyone who's been following the Crows, and knows their players, will understand what is being said. If they don't they can always ask about it. Just stop it Crow-Mo.

 

[FORCROWINGOUTLOUD]

I think Perrie does alright up forward as far as focal point, considering what the crows actually have up forward but marks and disposals let him down.

Me and mate would actually cheer the house down when he took a mark only to end up crying watching him get rid of the pill.

In this day and age of football with the high turnover meat market that is the AFL, you have to wonder who is in that video he possesses of someone doing the unspeakable with a ewe?

 

[WaynesWorld19]

But this completely undermines your bias towards talent.

by your own admission, it is not enough - but you assess players only on this basis?

unfortunately your spot on ......unless your in the inner sactum of the club and see the players attitude towards development, learning, injury recovery ect then all we supporters can do is look one dimensionally the talent on the field.


I agree sometimes that can mislead but it can show what players are capable of. On the other hand you see the battlers who give everything off and on the field to get a game .......those you can read easily

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

unfortunately your spot on ......unless your in the inner sactum of the club and see the players attitude towards development, learning, injury recovery ect then all we supporters can do is look one dimensionally the talent on the field.

Apparently David Gallagher was an absolute beauty on the track. Trained hard, was professional in everything he did, left no stone unturned in his preparation etc. As a result he played 26 matches for the club.

Meanwhile, us hacks in the outer were left scratching our heads. He's ****house. Why do we continue to play this dud? Is it purely that we're uneducated and working on different information to those in charge or is there sometimes a case of 'forest for the trees' for the coaches/selectors? The emperor is not wearing any clothes. Gallagher can't play!

Anyway, whether you rate Perrie or not, we need him to stand up at CHF this season. We've been pretty reluctant to play youngsters until they've served a lengthy apprenticeship in the SANFL so I doubt we'll give Sellar or Tippett an opportunity this season. Stevens and Rutten are needed down back and swapping Perrie and Stevens would be a waste of time. The games Stevens played for us up forward are the reason he spent so much time playing for the Magpies. And, whilst it was a long time ago, the games Perrie played in defence didn't exactly inspire confidence.

McGregor is the only other player that couldn't potentially fill the CHF position this season. And we could probably have a thread just as long as this one arguing his shortcomings as a player.

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I love the Big Pez ( not in a Hudon/Pyle way ) as he gives 110% everytime he hits the park but that just doesn't cut it anymore. From 2008 I just don't see how we can rebuild correctly when Big Pez continues to waste one of the most important positions on the ground, CHF. When you rebuild, don't you start with the spine?

As an aside, let's face it we are just a bunch of Internet hacks but I don't believe that our opinion doesn't hold any weight purely becuase we are not being paid a salary from a club. Take Richmond as an example. I'm sure some of our own experts in Macca23, Stiff, Macca19, Malibu etc would be just as competent as sum of the so called "experts" The Tigers have wasted money over the years.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I love the Big Pez ( not in a Hudon/Pyle way ) as he gives 110% everytime he hits the park but that just doesn't cut it anymore. From 2008 I just don't see how we can rebuild correctly when Big Pez continues to waste one of the most important positions on the ground, CHF. When you rebuild, don't you start with the spine?
.

I have said this many time that Angwin and Watts were designated firstly for CHF .....their departures meant that Perrie probably has extended his career.

However I struggle to understand the hostility towards him .....give him plenty of gametime and his form is generally reasonably reliable not brilliant but reliable.
Most of the hostility seems to come from his missed shots at goal? ......that's fair enough .....but frankly at team selection we have had no realistic other options and until we do he's it.

You can say we have McGregor but again IMO it's 6 of one half dozen of the other

 

[Stiffy_18]

You have no idea if we have a couple of future stars like them sitting on our list. We've got to try them, and when you've got players giving you nothing but inconsistency for years and years like Perrie and Welsh, why the hell would you NOT want to try the kids? This shows how short-sighted you are....the faraway tree? What you are implying is that we must stick with Welsh and Perrie (and others) because we haven't got players of the calibre of Kerr or Judd ready to come in. WHY NOT DEVELOP SOME INSTEAD OF STICKING WITH THESE INCONSISTENT BUFFOONS??? You have to admit this, you have to admit that in saying what you're saying you are effectively accepting the mediocrity we have to cop every week from these waste-of-time players (who have been proven wastes of time over many years). I would MUCH rather search our list out for the next Judd or Kerr or Johnathon Brown than sit here watching guys like Welsh and Perrie deny our kids opportunities.

Oh, and btw, you can sit there and say that I'm jumping on them after only one game, but it's been going on for years. YEARS. And you know this!! I'm tired of supporters like you just taking it as a given that we are to persist with inconsistent players. We may not KNOW if Porplyzia or Vince or Douglas or Knights or whoever can become as good as the Judds or Kerrs of the footy world, but we KNOW, after YEARS OF TRYING, that Welsh and Perrie are not good enough. So give the kids a chance. You know I'm right, stop accepting this mediocre crap!!

Oh my! You are more deluded than I thought

How about facing some facts. We DO NOT have Judd, Kerr, Brown type talent on our list and before you spout off crap like "how do you know if you don't play them", lets look at some facts for a change.

These player came into their respective clubs and made immidiate impact. Not because they were given the opportunity but because they DEMANDED an opportunity. Judd came in straight away and played like a veterean. Kerr came in and pisses in the rising star award averaging 18 odd touched in his rookie season. Brown came in and made an immidiate impact as a key forward.

That talent doesn't grow on trees and that talent is not unidentifiable if you don't see them play. That talent sticks out like a sore thumb. That talent has put their hand up over pre-season and DEMANDED that they get picked in the best 18-22 week in week out. Not having good enough form to be picked but DEMAND to be picked. Just like players like Goodwin, McLeod et al demand to be picked, that what these youngsters did in their first year.

If we had that talent, believe me they would be playing week in week out. I think our recruting, scouting and coaching staff are smart enough to see that sort of talent and if they did see it they would recognise it straight away, rather than giving them a game to see what they can do.

Oh and there are MANY MANY ways to develop youngsters. Giving them freebie games is just one, not so good way. Just because a player is not playing AFL football it doesn't mean they are not developing behind the scenes.

We do know that Porplyzia, Vince, Douglas, Knights or who ever of the world have some talent to be good AFL players. But we also know that these players do not have the natural ability nor football brains of a Kerr or a Judd. I have hope than in time they will all develop into good AFL players but if you think any of them will reach the level that Judd is currently at by the end of their careers, you are absolutely kidding yourself. Firstly, they don't have the attributes that Judd has. You won't Porplyzia use his equisite pace to break away from the pack. And you won't see Vince being belted around the ears in the pack only to break out of it without flinching and using his great pace to break away from the pack to kick a goal.

Those players have the potential to be good AFL player but for starters they don't have the attributes that are requirted to reach the level that Judd is at. Never have and never will.

We have a good bunch of kids but FFS stop making them out to be future champions.

 

[maccas_no1]

Bode's non inclusion this week is astounding and the fact that only if Burton or Goodwin are ruled out will he get a game

Why are the selection committee happy with what they have got and wont try and make the forwardline better this week as it clearly failed terribly last week???

Im baffled, I truely am

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Oh my! You are more deluded than I thought

How about facing some facts. We DO NOT have Judd, Kerr, Brown type talent on our list and before you spout off crap like "how do you know if you don't play them", lets look at some facts for a change.

These player came into their respective clubs and made immidiate impact. Not because they were given the opportunity but because they DEMANDED an opportunity. Judd came in straight away and played like a veterean. Kerr came in and pisses in the rising star award averaging 18 odd touched in his rookie season. Brown came in and made an immidiate impact as a key forward.

That talent doesn't grow on trees and that talent is not unidentifiable if you don't see them play. That talent sticks out like a sore thumb. T

If your talking about Judd, Reidwoldt ....then your talking about the peek of the pyramid.

However that's not the majority of star players in the AFL which is why talent identification and draft is such a difficult science.

You talk about demanding an opprtunity ......I agree that performances in the feeder league should be a priority MOST of the time but there are examples where it hasn't necessarily been the best solution.

Certainly do not think that Goodwin, Edwards, Modra and Rehn demanded their position or that their star talent was obvious.
In fact they were given opportunities because a) the team was travelling poorly and the club decided to do away with the tried and tested and b) injuries within the club.

Hird and Dean Cox wern't standouts and there are countless examples of excellent current day players who benefitted from opportunity.

Griffin this year in the AFL could be the makings of him BUT that's only because of opportunity otherwise he could have still be playing some reserves SANFL this season.

Look both of you posters are right in your arguments ......when the teams travelling OK and the seasons not a right-off certainly you have to demand a game and not expect freebies ......on the other hand if we're languishing in 13th or 14th position IMO it's time to blood youngsters even though they haven't demanded their games.

If we hadn't would we have uncovered Modra, Edwards and Goodwin

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Bode's non inclusion this week is astounding and the fact that only if Burton or Goodwin are ruled out will he get a game

Why are the selection committee happy with what they have got and wont try and make the forwardline better this week as it clearly failed terribly last week???

Im baffled, I truely am

It's a simple thing called "form"

 

[maccas_no1]

I think Perrie does alright up forward as far as focal point, considering what the crows actually have up forward but marks and disposals let him down.

Me and mate would actually cheer the house down when he took a mark only to end up crying watching him get rid of the pill.

In this day and age of football with the high turnover meat market that is the AFL, you have to wonder who is in that video he possesses of someone doing the unspeakable with a ewe?

Perrie is a footy player, not a bloody lighthouse