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If Chris Grant arrived in 2009.

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beaser

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Mar 8, 2007
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Western Bulldogs
If a skinny 17 yr old Chris Grant had have arrived for the 2009 season ,would we have got to see him play and kick 50 goals in his first season ? Under the current thinking at the club i think not. I am not saying that we have a young Grant at the club now but there seems to be a culture with young key forwards to nurse them and not expect much of them early. And as for getting knocked around with the exception of Cordy they would all be a better build than Grant was at 17.
 
It's an interesting point Beaser although in the case of Chris Grant, he has played at Daylesford seniors since he was 15 or 16, so he had experience of playing against men. The point you are making is probably still valid though.
 
You may be on to something.

I'm of the opinion that the decent forwards in the competition tend to be arrogant. At clubs like Carlton, Hawthorn and Collingwood young forwards arrive and are told how good they are. Give them a big head and they kick a bag of goals. Yeah, they go AWOL occasionally but wouldn't you love to have Fevola or Buddy in your team.

I think the down to earth clubs tend to produce good backman and midfielders who need the discipline, but good power forwards (and possibly even attacking midfielders) need a different mindset.

I've read in other posts that Boumann seems to have a bit of arrogance. I hope this is true as then he'd be one step closer to being our next full forward.
 

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No offence but Chris Grant was the second best player in the history of our club. He would still walk into any forward line in this day and age. None of our young talls are as good as Chris Grant was in his first year so they haven't earnt or deserved a spot. You can't turn sh%t into strawberry jam.
 
There are a few ways to look at this.... A few things to consider...

1) I'm not convinced there is another quality forward like Granty currently at the club.... Players like him don't just appear every year... We may not the player that we are all hoping to come along on our list at present.

2) The fitness/strength of players has increased significantly since 1990... This hinders younger, taller KPP's from making an immediate impact. Some defenders were significantly slower than Grant when he first started...

3) Our selection policy / player development seems to be lacking in some areas, so he may not get the opportunity he was looking for.... Which is the answer you were looking for....

I tend to think there is a bit too much of 3) at the club.... I think we're too conservative, as we fear having another really bad year, with the financial implications that go with that.... But I suspect that the club is also concerned about losing players to career ending injuries while they are 18/19/20.... And I'm not sure we'll find a replacement for Grant in our group to be honest....
 
beaser said:
If a skinny 17 yr old Chris Grant had have arrived for the 2009 season ,would we have got to see him play and kick 50 goals in his first season ?
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No, given the modern way with us:

YR1 arrives at club, given a strenuous weights regime, plays some games for the Willi 2s while struggling with OP. Fans think he's a dud.

YR2 OP better now but Willi talls and Wight and Skipper keep him out of Willi ones until last third of the season. Does OK. Fans think he's a dud.

YR3 Puts on some muscle, has a good pre-season, breaks into Willi ones but due to a shortage of tall backs, he is played in the backline. Gets given a game with the Dogs, plays up forward in a well beaten side, doesn't look flash, gets dropped. Does his knee back at Willi on a shitty ground. Fans think he's a dud.

Delisted end YR3 to make room for Welsh at the end of his career.

Leaves football and becomes a fireman.
 
Dry Rot said:
No, given the modern way with us:

YR1 arrives at club, given a strenuous weights regime, plays some games for the Willi 2s while struggling with OP. Fans think he's a dud.

YR2 OP better now but Willi talls and Wight and Skipper keep him out of Willi ones until last third of the season. Does OK. Fans think he's a dud.

YR3 Puts on some muscle, has a good pre-season, breaks into Willi ones but due to a shortage of tall backs, he is played in the backline. Gets given a game with the Dogs, plays up forward in a well beaten side, doesn't look flash, gets dropped. Does his knee back at Willi on a shitty ground. Fans think he's a dud.

Delisted end YR3 to make room for Welsh at the end of his career.

Leaves football and becomes a fireman.
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Goes back to Old Trinity in the Amateurs, plays 2 years of injury free football at CHF and is an average player even at that level. Another wasted top 5 selection.
 
Grant showed some good signs in the NAB cup, still can't understant why we havn't played him yet. I think he will do as much damage or even more damage than Brennan Stack and Josh Hill.
 
Touched said:
Alas, you only get to see a Chris Grant once in your lifetime :mad:
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Actually the rules have been changed and you cannot draft a 16 y-o at all to hide him from other recruiters.

Liam Jones is the last 17 y-o we are allowed to draft. Maybe now he has finished school football he can have a big pre-season and be something for us next year.

The only way to get a real young talent now would be through the NSW scholarship program or an international - maybe one from the Fijian program.
 

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bobmurphy2 said:
Grant showed some good signs in the NAB cup, still can't understant why we havn't played him yet. I think he will do as much damage or even more damage than Brennan Stack and Josh Hill.
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In his one game against carlton he was completely spent after a quarter of football, effectively leaving us was 21 men. He does not have either the strength or endurance to play at AFL level yet.


Bulldog Joe said:
The only way to get a real young talent now would be through the NSW scholarship program or an international - maybe one from the Fijian program.
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If you can get a visa for them....
 
Come one! If you were right to have any sort of impact in the AFL, you would be ripping it up kicking bags every week for Williamstown. Which one of our young forwards is currently doing that?

get a grip!
 
stefoid said:
Come one! If you were right to have any sort of impact in the AFL, you would be ripping it up kicking bags every week for Williamstown. Which one of our young forwards is currently doing that?

get a grip!
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We all know that Grant and Boumann arn't ripping it up in the VFL. But the point is why? Okay Grant had OP last year and his match fitness wasn't what it was, and Boumann may or may not have attitude problems, depending on who you listen to.

So, they are all good reasons why they havn't played. But if we are doing our job properly as a club, we should be asking ourselves why? Why are other clubs able to debut youngsters more than we do? Is our player development not as good, do we have a more conservative selection policy than other clubs, is our recruiting not as good as other clubs? These are the questions that we should be constantly asking ourselves.

People get defensive and don't want to think about the actual issue itself.I don't see any problem with constantly questioning if we can do things differently or what other clubs do better that we can learn from. If our philosophy on debuting youngsters later than other clubs is the best one, then that is fine. But it is good to be open minded about these things. Supporters tend to close their minds to anything that questions the club as they take it is criticism.

I don't have a problem with Grant and Boumann not being played now, but we have to get games into them next year. Grant was selected earlier and rated by many as a better prospect than Lachlan Henderson and already Henderson has played 14 games. I am not expecting miracles from Grant, but it would be nice to see him play some games next year(even a few) and show some improvement or at least be fit enough to play.
 
I hear where you are coming from, but a fairly poor analogy.

A lothas changed in the 20 years since C.Grant's debut.

Grant was an exception (and proved it by kicking 50 goals as a 17yo).

In 1989 we finished 13th and were in more shite than a Werribee duck. Currently we are a top 4 team, and have been for a few years.

However, I do understand most supporters angst in not seeing some of these young players having a crack. Earlier in the season we perhaps should have, and maybe that would have happened had we not had that early season horror patch. Time will be our judge!

Hooroo....
 
The Original Swooper said:
Currently we are a top 4 team, and have been for a few years.
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This is a good point and I suspect that it is the reason why we are so conservative at selection. We think that we are a chance to win a premiership with our established 22 players.

Although I probably not do not 100% agree with their thinking on this, I have no problem with them going down this path.The die is pretty much cast for this year, so no point in complaining about what might have been. We get behind the team and hope that they can bring home the bacon.

But if we don't land a premiership this year and we bomb out of the finals yet again, I really hope that next year we can turn over a new leaf and really refresh the side, start being bold and daring in our selections, start putting faith in our youngsters, start to build the skeleton of our future spine and really start a new exciting era, rather than just going with the same old same old again.
 

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bobmurphy2 said:
Grant showed some good signs in the NAB cup, still can't understant why we havn't played him yet. I think he will do as much damage or even more damage than Brennan Stack and Josh Hill.
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I agree, I haven't seen him at Willi so I can't comment on his progress since his debut - but he definitely showed something when he played in the NAB Cup. To just give one fleeting chance and again when we got thrashed by Carlton and then drop him straight away seems far to conservative for me.
 
The Original Swooper said:
I hear where you are coming from, but a fairly poor analogy.

A lothas changed in the 20 years since C.Grant's debut.

Grant was an exception (and proved it by kicking 50 goals as a 17yo).

In 1989 we finished 13th and were in more shite than a Werribee duck. Currently we are a top 4 team, and have been for a few years.

However, I do understand most supporters angst in not seeing some of these young players having a crack. Earlier in the season we perhaps should have, and maybe that would have happened had we not had that early season horror patch. Time will be our judge!

Hooroo....
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It is actually easy to give the try out to young players when teams are not competitive and you can see that with Richmond with Vickery, Post and Riewoldt.

It does, however run the risk of destroying careers and some players will have disappeared without trace due to exposure when not ready.

The example of this can be seen in Zac Dawson, who was fortunate to be given a new lease of life at St Kilda.

When a side is in finals contention the opportunities will come from injury to the established players and form demanding selection at the lower level.

For this season the only player to put in a DEMANDING performance at Williamstown was Sam Reid with the match turning effort against Casey that saw him selected against Hawthorn the next week.
 
Good to see there are a few comments in here that aren't all doom and gloom bullshit. If Grant were drafted next year he would be playing straight away. He is a once in a generation player unfortunately.
 
Chris Grant kicked over 50 goals for the 'Dogs when he was 17...I am sure if any of the pups bagged any where near that at Willi they would get a run in the AFL.
 
gohardorgohome said:
Chris Grant kicked over 50 goals for the 'Dogs when he was 17...I am sure if any of the pups bagged any where near that at Willi they would get a run in the AFL.
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Thats true. He was a lot better player than any of the young KPP's and more physically advanced because he had been playing against men for Daylesford.

I still think the question asked in the OP is a ripper though. To ask yourself if a 17 YO Chris Grant came along now, would he be played in round 1, is a great thinking exercise. You have to compare our side back then to now, our selection philosophy, and the way that the game has changed. Remember Chris Grant in his first year would struggle to kick longer than 25 metres. It took him quite a few years to improve the depth of his kicking. How would todays game with flooding and zoning back impact on that? The game is faster, harder, the bodies bigger now.All these things are things to think about.

It wouldn't surprise me if Grant came now, that he would play his first year at Williamstown. But people get a bit grumpy with this type of thinking so I will say that he would be picked first week and still play 340 games for the club.
 
When Granty was drafted, he was being referred to as "the skinny kid from Daylesford".
Mid way through his first pre-season, the club knew they had a "once in a generation" player. Naturally, they played him in round 1.
Garry Merrington, the recruiter at the time, said his progress was astonishing, and that in fact he was ready to play senior football the day he arrived at the club.
As many have said, players of his calibre are pretty rare.

Generally, KPs take a lot more time. Look at Josh Kennedy at WCE - only now is he starting to live up to his promise. Jack Riewoldt is starting to come good. Jack Hawkins has had about 5 (?) years at Geelong, and is still learning, via the ruck at the moment.
J.Grant had OP last year - wait and see how he goes with a good pre-season under his belt.
Let's hope he's the surprise packet of 2010 for us!
 

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