Opinion If you had one pick

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sr36

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How would he go against modern defensive structures, with no space to lead into? Plus being double or triple teamed every contest instead of having 1v1s all game? Plus having to actually chase and tackle.

That'd be interesting.
I reckon it's a valid question for guys who relied on leading into space to take uncontested or relatively uncontested marks like Dunstall or Lloyd. They'd still go well but not be as dominant as they were.

Carey, on thr other hand, could do it all, he won the footy any which way you can. He would star with any defensive set up.
 

sirlothie

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He had a bigger influence on more games than anyone elss I've ever seen.
Also got neutrals to go to North games specifically to see him put on a show.

Not many others can do that, Ablett Snr is the only other one I can remember who actually put bums on seats just for them.
 
Aug 10, 2015
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Also got neutrals to go to North games specifically to see him put on a show.

Not many others can do that, Ablett Snr is the only other one I can remember who actually put bums on seats just for them.
Back in the day, my dad told me, John Coleman was the one guy that even non football people decided to go to the footy to see him play.

Then people moved end to end to watch him play.

Some just had that magic.
 

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Kappa

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Also got neutrals to go to North games specifically to see him put on a show.

Not many others can do that, Ablett Snr is the only other one I can remember who actually put bums on seats just for them.
Buddy Franklin says hi.
 

Kappa

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I reckon it's a valid question for guys who relied on leading into space to take uncontested or relatively uncontested marks like Dunstall or Lloyd. They'd still go well but not be as dominant as they were.

Carey, on thr other hand, could do it all, he won the footy any which way you can. He would star with any defensive set up.
Star yes, but with 2/3 Defenders on him every time there's a long kick to him, people blocking his leading space and significantly more pressure on guys delivering him the footy, you'd see his output drop to what the current star forwards produce.
 

sr36

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Star yes, but with 2/3 Defenders on him every time there's a long kick to him, people blocking his leading space and significantly more pressure on guys delivering him the footy, you'd see his output drop to what the current star forwards produce.
Imagine if Mihocek cliunked everything that he got his hands on, but got his hands on twice as many because he was bigger, stronger and used his body better. What would his stats look like? And when he drew two or three defenders, how much easier would it make it for our other forwards?
 

Kappa

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Imagine if Mihocek cliunked everything that he got his hands on, but got his hands on twice as many because he was bigger, stronger and used his body better. What would his stats look like? And when he drew two or three defenders, how much easier would it make it for our other forwards?
If mihocek was performing better he'd start to get the number 1 defender and get double teamed a lot more. In order to get his hands on twice as footy footy he'd have to slim down a lot to improve endurance.

Carey would be no better than the best modern players. Things have gotten significantly harder for star forwards since coaches started actually using strategies and plans instead of just screaming at players to kick it long to the full forward 1 out in an acre of space
 
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When a 12 year old me found out that Dermott Brereton was coming to Collingwood I was the happiest kid in the world. (Devastated 12 months later)
You probably know this but ties in well.

Dermott was a mega Collingwood supporter as a kid.

Loved them and to this day he has a soft spot for us. He’s never nasty to us as some who like laughing at Magpies. Always very acknowledging of us.

I think he absolutely loved his year with us. Like a child going full circle to his love of Collingwood.
 

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sr36

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If mihocek was performing better he'd start to get the number 1 defender and get double teamed a lot more. In order to get his hands on twice as footy footy he'd have to slim down a lot to improve endurance.

Carey would be no better than the best modern players. Things have gotten significantly harder for star forwards since coaches started actually using strategies and plans instead of just screaming at players to kick it long to the full forward 1 out in an acre of space
Nosh Kennedy has been a star. Carey was significantly better at every offensive aspect of the game.
He played most of his career at centre half forward. Yes he benefited from running back into the space of Pagans paddock, as the modern forwards do when a press is broken, but he also dominated when hitting up into the areas where the extra players who'd been cleared from forward 50 were playing.
 

Kappa

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Nosh Kennedy has been a star. Carey was significantly better at every offensive aspect of the game.
He played most of his career at centre half forward. Yes he benefited from running back into the space of Pagans paddock, as the modern forwards do when a press is broken, but he also dominated when hitting up into the areas where the extra players who'd been cleared from forward 50 were playing.
So basically, if Carey played today he'd be far far better than any modern player?

Strange that forwards have gotten worse overtime, when overwhelming logic suggests the opposite will happen.
 

Robroy22

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Carey would be better than 99% of today's big forward YES....and compared to Hudson or Ablett SNR or Coleman...he's chicken feed
Players drafted today basically get groomed as mids or running players at U/18 or school level. Stand alone single position players rarely get drafted any more because clubs back their "development coaches" to get athletes ready to play two way footy.
The blokes being mentioned here were champion players in their set position. Would a team defence have bothered Plugger? No, in the rules he played under it would have meant more carnage as he bulldozed bodies on his way to taking marks on the lead. Hudson? No because as we saw with Richmond and Mason Cox....when the forward knows where the ball is going and the defenders are defending space...easy pickings. Ablett Snr and Coleman regularly beat 3-4 blokes just because they could judge the ball in flight better.
Are these olden days forwards better than today's??? Not at repeat running....but at getting the ball and finishing....YOU BETCHA.

Seriously who's a gun forward running around at the moment? Kennedy? Cameron? Buddy? Hawkins? We're playing an ex full back and a basketballer as our key forwards and they're considered "dangerous" so how good are the current forwards?

Last thing I'll say on it is: give the old blokes 7-8 shots like Stevo had last week....they'd kick 6 or 7 of em.
 

jathanas

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So basically, if Carey played today he'd be far far better than any modern player?

Strange that forwards have gotten worse overtime, when overwhelming logic suggests the opposite will happen.
I don't think Carey would be "much better" than today's forwards because that is simplifying the argument too much. He was a much better footballer than Buddy but not a better athlete. I think comparing today's dominant players with yesteryear's is an exercise in futility because we are not comparing like for like. They both play the same game but today AFL is played differently.

Players like Carey, Daicos etc will star in any era because of their talent but trying to specify how much they would dominate or how superior they are to today's guns is probably unrealistic.
 

Kappa

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Carey would be better than 99% of today's big forward YES....and compared to Hudson or Ablett SNR or Coleman...he's chicken feed
Players drafted today basically get groomed as mids or running players at U/18 or school level. Stand alone single position players rarely get drafted any more because clubs back their "development coaches" to get athletes ready to play two way footy.
The blokes being mentioned here were champion players in their set position. Would a team defence have bothered Plugger? No, in the rules he played under it would have meant more carnage as he bulldozed bodies on his way to taking marks on the lead. Hudson? No because as we saw with Richmond and Mason Cox....when the forward knows where the ball is going and the defenders are defending space...easy pickings. Ablett Snr and Coleman regularly beat 3-4 blokes just because they could judge the ball in flight better.
Are these olden days forwards better than today's??? Not at repeat running....but at getting the ball and finishing....YOU BETCHA.

Seriously who's a gun forward running around at the moment? Kennedy? Cameron? Buddy? Hawkins? We're playing an ex full back and a basketballer as our key forwards and they're considered "dangerous" so how good are the current forwards?

Last thing I'll say on it is: give the old blokes 7-8 shots like Stevo had last week....they'd kick 6 or 7 of em.
Yerp... things were better back in my day... Players are so much worse nowadays despite literally everything suggesting the opposite.
 

sr36

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So basically, if Carey played today he'd be far far better than any modern player?

Strange that forwards have gotten worse overtime, when overwhelming logic suggests the opposite will happen.
I certainly didn't say that. He wasn't as good an athlete or as good at ground as Franklin, but be would have the marking forwards covered.
 

sr36

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Yerp... things were better back in my day... Players are so much worse nowadays despite literally everything suggesting the opposite.
The games improved anf changed so that different skill sets have become more effective, but a massive outlier from 25years ago with a complete game, like Carey had, would still be a star, perhaps by less, but a star nonetheless.
 
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So we are clear, Wayne Carey today with today’s training and coaching would be THE elite forward bar none.

He was that good. It’s ludicrous to suggest that if he entered the game today somehow he’d not adapt and his talent and skill set wouldn’t translate.
 

jonbe54

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So we are clear, Wayne Carey today with today’s training and coaching would be THE elite forward bar none.

He was that good. It’s ludicrous to suggest that if he entered the game today somehow he’d not adapt and his talent and skill set wouldn’t translate.
Not quite right, one had more talent in his left finger nail than that utter sleeze ball.

Fabulous Phil - not that he wasn't a f-wit at the best of times - but he was a better all round forward and at least as good an athlete as today's footballers.
 

sr36

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So we are clear, Wayne Carey today with today’s training and coaching would be THE elite forward bar none.

He was that good. It’s ludicrous to suggest that if he entered the game today somehow he’d not adapt and his talent and skill set wouldn’t translate.
What didn't he do at a higher level than every current kpf, except for Buddy's extraordinary work at ground level. I understand Kappa's argument when it comes to blokes who's big party trick was fast leads into space - eg. Dunstall and Matty Lloyd, but Carey didn't need space.
 

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