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Opinion INTERNATIONAL Politics: Adelaide Board Discussion Part 6

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ADL9798 said:
it also identifies opportunities to prevent this which is great. How good is science.
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Science is great, except sometimes it takes time. That information would’ve been handy about four-five years ago. Except the science hadn’t discovered it yet.

Which is precisely why you never, ever mandate a novel pharmaceutical product on people. Right… right? :)

ADL9798 said:
As I've said before, I agree with the argument that once the Omicron variant emerged and benefit #1 ceased, these mandates were no longer justifiable.
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Pretty much all the mandates on regular, non health workers happened after Omicron.

Novak Djokovic was laughably deported from the country well after Omicron FFS.

You said nothing about any of it, except to defend it. The receipts are all there. Don’t re-write history.
 
Slippery Pete said:
Science is great, except sometimes it takes time. That information would’ve been handy about four-five years ago. Except the science hadn’t discovered it yet.

Which is precisely why you never, ever mandate a novel pharmaceutical product on people. Right… right? :)



Pretty much all the mandates on regular, non health workers happened after Omicron.

Novak Djokovic was laughably deported from the country well after Omicron FFS.

You said nothing about any of it, except to defend it. The receipts are all there. Don’t re-write history.
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Correct. Omicron arrived Nov 2021 and my workplace (non-health) reaffirmed their employee vaccine mandate in Jan 2022 with a requirement for boosters. They didn't drop their mandatory vaccination requirement for site visitors until Nov 2022, a full 12 months after Omicron.
 

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Measles as the most transmissible virus we know of is therefore predictably among the first to re-emerge as vaccination rates drop. There will be others.

Sadly people will learn this lesson the hard way.

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Slippery Pete said:
Do you think that people magically woke up one day and lost all this trust, or do you think it’s because they previously trusted the system and it hurt them badly?
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My thoughts (as posted previously):

I agree there's a lot of work to do in rebuilding trust and public confidence in science and medicine.

1. Absolutely part of the responsibility for that falls on governments due to the significant impacts of the COVID pandemic on people and businesses recognising some of that was out of their control and part and parcel of any pandemic or major crisis, and some of that was about decisions they made, and they need to take ownership of that.

2. The other part of the responsibility for that falls on groups and individuals who have maliciously and deliberately sought to undermine that trust and confidence through knowingly spreading lies, half-truths and misinformation. Those groups have increasingly been given a bigger and bigger platform on social media (the new town square) to rapidly spread those lies far and wide in a way that wasn't possible a decade ago. More and more people are being exposed to this misinformation, without getting any education in how to actually interpret what they're reading - to pick good quality research from bad, or to weigh up the benefits of a health technology against the harms.

3. The other major factor at play here is the long term rise of anti-establishmentism.

Going back to the Iraq War, drastically accelerated coming out of the GFC, and then again during COVID, there is increasing sentiment (particularly in the US) to reject and take down the establishments (all of them!), creating a default mindset to reject the consensus of all shapes and forms be it in politics, economics, law, science, health, migration, media etc, for better or worse.

In some areas the status quo is increasingly indefensible and not serving the majority interest, and this kind of radical change is absolutely justified and would be gladly supported by both sides of politics.

In other areas people are very much throwing the baby out with the bath water / cutting off their nose to spite their face, supporting irrational positions that will likely harm themselves and others while enriching the 0.1%, purely for the sake of rejecting the consensus and rejecting the system. They just don't see it yet, because so many people refuse to read beyond the front cover, or the headline, or the tweet, and actually educate themselves on these topics. Or failing that, to listen to advice from people who are educated on these topics.

That the Iraq War was built on politicians lying about WMDs or that the GFC was driven by corporate greed and bailed out by taxpayers does not mean that scientists are lying about the measles vaccine being effective, yet such is the 'album' nature of politics today (you can't just buy the single), many people seem unable to hold an anti-establishment view on one topic, they have to take them all.
 
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Slippery Pete said:
Science is great, except sometimes it takes time. That information would’ve been handy about four-five years ago. Except the science hadn’t discovered it yet.

Which is precisely why you never, ever mandate a novel pharmaceutical product on people. Right… right? :)

Pretty much all the mandates on regular, non health workers happened after Omicron.

Novak Djokovic was laughably deported from the country well after Omicron FFS.

You said nothing about any of it, except to defend it. The receipts are all there. Don’t re-write history.
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Laughable for you to be talking about re-writing history on COVID. Pull the other one.

I said plenty about it. I said that as soon as evidence emerged that vaccines weren't reliably preventing transmission of Omicron, any mandates or other policies based on this weren't justified and should've been lifted. But feel free to search for said receipts if you're that bored.

No doubt some projection at play here with your own blindly devout religious following of certain politicians, but you seem bizarrely wedded to this idea that I am obliged to agree with (and apparently be held accountable for) every single decision related to COVID by every government and private business in every country on Earth during the pandemic.

Whether there were inconsistencies in appetite for risk by decision makers or influence of politics across the myriad of governments and businesses here and around the world leading to differences in what decisions were made and when is irrelevant to my own personal opinions on what should/shouldn't have happened.
 
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ADL9798 said:
That the Iraq War was built on politicians lying about WMDs or that the GFC was driven by corporate greed and bailed out by taxpayers does not mean that scientists are lying about the measles vaccine being effective, yet such is the 'album' nature of politics today (you can't just buy the single), many people seem unable to hold an anti-establishment view on one topic, they have to take them all.
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Yeah, sorry, but not wanting vaccines mandated on people or children is not even close to an anti-establishment view, in fact it was the prevailing view in this country forever, up until 5-10 years ago.

That’s the core issue here. You are mounting a defence of a separate argument, because you can’t defend the one I’m actually making.

Vaccines are not some miracle God-like pharmaceutical product beyond reproach or scrutiny. They are for-profit pharmaceutical products with risks and side-effects, like any other, that need to be weighed up by the individual.

Do you notice I’m not in here mounting arguments against the very well established safety risks of, say, Ozempic? Not that it isn’t an important discussion, but at least people are free to choose whether they take on those risks.

Now….if it was mandated on every single person including children, do you think that makes it a slightly different discussion?
 
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ADL9798 said:
Measles as the most transmissible virus we know of is therefore predictably among the first to re-emerge as vaccination rates drop. There will be others.

Sadly people will learn this lesson the hard way.

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And if they get measles, they only got themselves to blame. I couldn’t care less.

I’m willing to take vaccines to prevent possible serious effects.
 

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Eagleboy2011 said:
Did you just read the tweet header and post without the full context? :mad: There is nothing wrong with Trumps speech.


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lol you can't be serious?

I've seen the clip. saying 'things can happen' even in the context, is at best, in very poor taste.

you would act like a rabid dog, if it was anyone else.
 
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Mr MysteryGuest said:
lol you can't be serious?

I've seen the clip. saying 'things can happen' even in the context, is at best, in very poor taste.

you would act like a rapid dog, if it was anyone else.
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Lets Go Running GIF by Zypto
 

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Good grief, listening to Trump address to the Nation.

All the same shit he has been saying for the last 11 months. Just absolute dribble.

“No-one can believe what’s going on” - you can say that again Trump!

The media will be fact checking everyone of his statements.

But guess what, the MAGA gooses like some on here will lap up the crap.

Spends like a drunken sailor.
 

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Opinion INTERNATIONAL Politics: Adelaide Board Discussion Part 6

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