It's A Sinn

[AlecDuncan]

Peter Sinn will head a ticket to challenge the Smorgon board at the Feb AGM election. The five-man ticket will include Mark Maclure, Andrew Mackay, and Tom Elliott. Sinn is a solicitor who has acted as the club's legal advisor in the past.

I wonder if he was working on the AFL v Greg Williams saga. Not that I'd hold that against him.

I don't know how many positions are up for election this year, what with all the interim appointments. Are there five positions up for election?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Elliott Sr and former director Wes Lofts will not be part of the rival ticket, but have been proactive behind the scenes in forming a team that could challenge Smorgon and several other board members.

More hands on than I am comfortable with.

It's believed Sinn was approached last month to be the president in waiting but was initially reluctant because of business commitments.

Does he have time?

It meant all nominations had to be finalised by January 6 and the rival ticket pleaded with Sinn to take on the role.

Geez, does this guy even want the job?

He was our solicitor huh? I've never heard of him. Not the high profile type we were looking for.

 

[CattyBossDog]

Not the high profile type we were looking for.

I thought Carlton could just do with someone who is good.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I thought Carlton could just do with someone who is good.

Yeah but how do we know how good he is? Someone high profile with the runs on the board and obvious funds behind them inspires more confidence. We were also being told that our next president would have quite a profile.

The club solicitor under Elliot and Collins? Is this where we got the advice not to challenge the 2002 penalties? I really would prefer someone that wasn't around the club during this period of our history. Clean slate and all.

Anyway, wait and see what they are offering. Someone merely coming in to restart our rebuilding or to continue a financial management plan, in essence just putting a new face in the chair, without the promised debt relief, doesn't excite me at all.

However, I guess Pratt will come to the party as big Jack's hands are all over this ticket. Tom Elliot talks about being his own man but is playing a bit part in a ticket hand picked by his old man. They might be bringing back some old money and that is great, but you can't tell me that Jack doesn't want revenge for his removal and this is ego driven. Sure he loves the club and hopefully deep down he does feel he has an obligation to right the ship. He'll get my back up if the ticket gets up and he spends his time badmouthing Collins and Smorgon and talking about how he fixed our problems though. Not a lot of science to getting your Carlton supporting mates to withhold money until you roll your successors.

 

[deluxeman]

It all comes down to what the new ticket can bring to the club. If they will eradicate debt and be able to provide a united board that can make the tough decisions when necessary then I would be happy to see them in power.

Smorgon has done very little right over the past year in my opinion but I am worried that some voters might simply vote to get rid of him and not care about the alternative. The members need to know what Sinn's plans are and hopefully over the next few weeks, the Sinn ticket will make public their plans for the CFC.

 

[CattyBossDog]

Yeah but how do we know how good he is? Someone high profile with the runs on the board and obvious funds behind them inspires more confidence.

Sinn has been a commercial litigator and senior partner at law firm Middletons for 25 years and is well connected in the business world.

Plenty of runs & funds there mate.

They might be bringing back some old money and that is great, but you can't tell me that Jack doesn't want revenge for his removal and this is ego driven.

If he's passionate enough to try and take his revenge from behind the scenes then he's definately OK by me. Doing that means he's deadly serious, and the blues need deadly serious people leading them, both on and off the field.

Sure he loves the club and hopefully deep down he does feel he has an obligation to right the ship.

I hope he does too.

Thinking about it though, I don't think he'll want to fail the club. Do you?

 

[mediumsizered]

The club solicitor under Elliot and Collins? Is this where we got the advice not to challenge the 2002 penalties? I really would prefer someone that wasn't around the club during this period of our history. Clean slate and all.

However, I guess Pratt will come to the party as big Jack's hands are all over this ticket. Tom Elliot talks about being his own man but is playing a bit part in a ticket hand picked by his old man. They might be bringing back some old money and that is great, but you can't tell me that Jack doesn't want revenge for his removal and this is ego driven. Sure he loves the club and hopefully deep down he does feel he has an obligation to right the ship. He'll get my back up if the ticket gets up and he spends his time badmouthing Collins and Smorgon and talking about how he fixed our problems though. Not a lot of science to getting your Carlton supporting mates to withhold money until you roll your successors.

Well said, ODN. This looks like we are just going to be revisiting the past. I would love to see Andrew McKay & Mark Maclure on our board but not if they are puppets being controlled by Elliott & Lofts.

It is worth noting that not once has Elliott conceded the mess at Carlton has anything to do with him. He continues to be of the belief that he did nothing wrong despite overseeing the taking on of massive debt & the breaching of salary cap rules. You can't help but think that if Elliott gains any form of control through this ticket, that all those that have been associated with Collins & Smorgon will be 'boned'. It won't matter if they have something to offer the club, they will be gone. Correct me if I am wrong, but it would seem there are only 2 groups at the Carlton Football Club, those who are with Elliott & those that aren't. It doesn't give you much choice.

I suspect, rather than putting an end to the disunity we have seen at Carlton, this new ticket will open more wounds, if elected. I don't look forward to the finger pointing that may result. Caroline Wilson will have a field day.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Smorgon has done very little right over the past year in my opinion but I am worried that some voters might simply vote to get rid of him and not care about the alternative. The members need to know what Sinn's plans are and hopefully over the next few weeks, the Sinn ticket will make public their plans for the CFC.

That's the big fear. Smorgon is a boy with his finger in the dike but is resolute and will keep it there as long as it takes to divert the water. I don't want someone else to come along and merely replace the finger.

There has been much hysteria about Smorgon so much so that many posters are continually shouting 'get rid of him' without actually elaborating their reasoning outside of what a few insiders are saying. This thinking festers until it seems Smorgon is Nero fiddling while Carlton burns. Smorgon seems to be pretty switched on but is limited. There is the potential for someone worse and we can't discount that.

I also have a feeling that Smorgon has more money to pour in, and his donation last year was a prelude to that. Like the new tickets, they won't pour money in only to get tipped out and have their opponents using the money as they see fit.

I don't subscribe to the theory, 'a change is as good as a holiday', in this case. If we mis-step on this issue, it compounds the negative attention and I didn't think we could be a bigger laughing stock than we are at the moment.

I'm not judging the new ticket before they have a chance to put their plan forward. In fact good on them for at least standing up, lord knows we have had a shortage of people willing to challenge those in power previously. The Elliot/Lofts involvement doesn't impress me at all and the reluctance of the new saviour to even get involved (according to the media), makes me extremely sceptical.

 

[CattyBossDog]

It is worth noting that not once has Elliott conceded the mess at Carlton has anything to do with him.

He's a politician mate.

He won't admit to anything for the same reason JH won't say "sorry" to the aborigines, for as soon as he says that they've got a gun pointed at his head.

 

[mediumsizered]

He's a politician mate.

He won't admit to anything for the same reason JH won't say "sorry" to the aborigines, for as soon as he says that they've got a gun pointed at his head.

The difference being that JH did not directly participate in what happened to the aborigines, whereas JE was in it up to his neck as our club unravelled. This is not about saying sorry, this is about getting in touch with reality & conceding that the building of the Legends Stand & the salary cap breaches, leading to a massive fine & loss of draft picks, have been significant contributors to the club's current plight. Until JE comes clean on this, instead of continuing to run the line that all was healthy at the Carlton Football Club under his leadership, it would be very dangerous to elect people to the board who are realistically just his proxies. By electing his preferred ticket, members would be saying that they condone what he did. I will never condone what he did.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Until JE comes clean on this, instead of continuing to run the line that all was healthy at the Carlton Football Club under his leadership, it would be very dangerous to elect people to the board who are realistically just his proxies.

Was still thinking JE would have no input into board decisions but the word proxies just rammed it home to me. If JE has the finger on the Pratt drip feed, then he can and will have an input. The fact that these guys are all hand picked by him is extremely concerning.

By electing his preferred ticket members would be saying that they condone what he did. I will never condone what he did.

Whether that is what they would be doing or not, it will certainly create that perception amongst the media, opposition supporters and possibly the AFL. Any mistakes and we are G-O-N-E gone.

 

[CattyBossDog]

The difference being that JH did not directly participate in what happened to the aborigines, whereas JE was in it up to his neck as our club unravelled. This is not about saying sorry, this is about getting in touch with reality & conceding that the building of the Legends Stand & the salary cap breaches, leading to a massive fine & loss of draft picks, have been significant contributors to the club's current plight.

You miss the point mate. JH saying "sorry" will mean his, and future Australian governments, will become legally responsible. It doesn't matter what they did, or did not do.

JE, being the politician, sees himself in the same light. He thinks that as soon as he concedes his mess he will become legally responsible to clean it up. Therefore, he never will.

 

[navier-stokes equation]

The fact that these guys are all hand picked by him is extremely concerning.

How do we know for sure that they were hand picked by him? Because the article said so?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

How do we know for sure that they were hand picked by him? Because the article said so?

It's a pretty big leap to name JE and Lofts for no reason at all isn't it? This thing reads like it is intended to be an election nomination on behalf of the ticket, not a hatchet job. It just so happens it is written a bit shoddily and raises some eyebrows.

I mean really, we know that the main man Sinn, didn't ask himself to come on board, Tom Elliot tested the waters but is only a bit player at this stage. I highly doubt that Maclure and McKay are the brains behind it all, as the obligatory player names needed on any ticket.

 

[mediumsizered]

How do we know for sure that they were hand picked by him? Because the article said so?

So on one hand, if we disagree with what someone like Caro or Jake Niall writes, we are in denial, yet if we believe what is in today's article, we are guilty of just believing what is written in an article. Confused? I certainly am.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So on one hand, if we disagree with what someone like Caro or Jake Niall writes, we are in denial, yet if we believe what is in today's article, we are guilty of just believing what is written in an article. Confused? I certainly am.

Especially considering this wasn't a sensationalist article and more of an announcement than anything, there doesn't seem to be any reason to fabricate it.

It's not as though they are saying 'disgraced former president' or anything like that. It's just stated in matter-of-fact fashion.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Actually to take it one step further, if this wasn't meant to be an out and out positive publicity piece for Elliot's behind the scenes manouevring, I haven't seen one.

Elliot Sr working proactively behind the scenes is an endorsement.

But this bit:

'Former captain Maclure is one of the most decorated players in Carlton's history.'

Now Mark was a very good player for us but if he is one of the most decorated players in our history, it is a fairly lengthy list.

 

[mediumsizered]

Actually to take it one step further, if this wasn't meant to be an out and out positive publicity piece for Elliot's behind the scenes manouevring, I haven't seen one.

Elliot Sr working proactively behind the scenes is an endorsement.

But this bit:

'Former captain Maclure is one of the most decorated players in Carlton's history.'

Now Mark was a very good player for us but if he is one of the most decorated players in our history, it is a fairly lengthy list.

One year as club captain, no B&Fs, never led our goalkicking. Did play in 3 premierships, but it is worth noting that in 1979 & 1981, his opponent, Billy Picken, was Collingwood's best player in both GFs. I think even Sellars would concede that he was a good honest battler, at best. An important part of our team? No doubt. Highly decorated? That is a bit generous.

 

[Jimthegreat]

More hands on than I am comfortable with.

Does he have time?

Geez, does this guy even want the job?

He was our solicitor huh? I've never heard of him. Not the high profile type we were looking for.

Gee, not high profile. So ****** what!. As long as he can do the job. Imagine bringing his profile into it, what a load of crap. You prefer the current rabble, who embarrassed us no end over the last few months and turned our club into a laughing stock? The AFL whipping boy's!! I don't mind anything backed ny Elliot or Lofts. Pre-2000 (I know the last couple of years weren't pleasant but the previous 16 or so were!) we were the strongest group imagainable both on and off the field, something other clubs feared, not laughed at like they do now. Rememeber, Jack would not actually be running the place. To me, it's a no-brainer.

 

[Jimthegreat]

One year as club captain, no B&Fs, never led our goalkicking. Did play in 3 premierships, but it is worth noting that in 1979 & 1981, his opponent, Billy Picken, was Collingwood's best player in both GFs. I think even Sellars would concede that he was a good honest battler, at best. An important part of our team? No doubt. Highly decorated? That is a bit generous.

Jesaulaenko, our greatest player, only won one B & F, as did Ablett for Geelong. Mark Maclure was an outstanding CHF for Carlton and still played pretty well in those GF's given it was p1ssing rain. He's smart man, who'll be an asset on our Board. Seems you prefer the current emabrrassing rabble. Now you've started knocking Sellars, given he's on the opposition ticket, are you going to kill your credibility and start on Andrew MacKay? sometimes I wonder how much you understand about our club and game.

 

[Jimthegreat]

So on one hand, if we disagree with what someone like Caro or Jake Niall writes, we are in denial, yet if we believe what is in today's article, we are guilty of just believing what is written in an article. Confused? I certainly am.

No idea would sum it up!

 

[CattyBossDog]

It befuddles me that people actually believe what they read in the papers 9or on the internet for that matter). Unless there is a direct quote I question every damn thing, and sometimes I question them too.



Why do fans of the same club fight over crap written in the newspaper?

 

[mediumsizered]

Jesaulaenko, our greatest player, only won one B & F, as did Ablett for Geelong. Mark Maclure was an outstanding CHF for Carlton and still played pretty well in those GF's given it was p1ssing rain. He's smart man, who'll be an asset on our Board. Seems you prefer the current emabrrassing rabble. Now you've started knocking Sellars, given he's on the opposition ticket, are you going to kill your credibility and start on Andrew MacKay? sometimes I wonder how much you understand about our club and game.

I didn't knock Sellars at all. I was just putting his achievements in perspective. I have always been a fan of how he played his football, but to call him highly decorated, is IMO just a bit over the top. In comparing his record to that of Jesaulenko, it just pales into insignificance. Along with the B&F Jezza won, he led the club goalkicking on 3 occasions, including being the only Carlton player to kick 100 goals in a season . He also took the mark of the century in the 1970 GF, kicked 7 goals in both the 1972 PF & GF, after playing the home & away season as a centreman, captain-coached a premiership, was 2 times AA, represented Victoria on 15 occasions & finished 3rd in the Brownlow Medal on 3 occasions. That is what I would call highly decorated.

FWIW, Maclure has been very vocal in his criticism of our club in recent years, whenever given the opportunity in his radio gig. So to see him on a rival ticket is no major surprise. We actually could have done with his input at the club over the last 4 years. It is a pity he has to put his hand up as a JE/WL proxy.

As for Andrew McKay. One of the best defenders the club has had over the last 30 years. Only bettered by Doull, Southby, SOS, 'Swan' McKay & perhaps Kenny Hunter. I would love to see Macca back involved in our club. I was disappointed when he chose to take the tribunal gig at a time when we really needed people like him around the club. I will most likely vote for him, but not as part of the Sinn ticket (how appropriate is that name). People like him are needed on our board.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Gee, not high profile. So ****** what!. As long as he can do the job. Imagine bringing his profile into it, what a load of crap.

A bit of an angry ant aren't you? I was specifically referring to the copious amounts of leaks we have received telling us to prepare for a presidential announcement that was going to have us falling over ourselves. It didn't happen. Now back in your box.

You prefer the current rabble, who embarrassed us no end over the last few months and turned our club into a laughing stock?

I'd say the cheating, the 2002 spoon, the ********house recruiting, turned us into a laughing stock. Every little thing since just keeps us there.

I don't mind anything backed ny Elliot or Lofts. Pre-2000 (I know the last couple of years weren't pleasant but the previous 16 or so were!) we were the strongest group imagainable both on and off the field, something other clubs feared, not laughed at like they do now.

You reckon it took only 2 years to take us to the brink of extinction? Not pleasant? Not bloody pleasant? Smorgon and co turned us into laughing stock but the end of Elliot's reign was merely 'not pleasant'? Don't insult my intelligence by sugarcoating the darkest days in our entire history. The fact is that the depth of the ******** was kept a secret so you can afford to pretend it didn't happen.

Rememeber, Jack would not actually be running the place. To me, it's a no-brainer.

Does that mean that nobody can question his involvement? We have already been told that the money men are from the Elliot era. I would much prefer they were backing De Lutis or Brown or someone else. The question has now been raised .. does Elliot's involvement ensure the money comes in, and what does the Sinn ticket have to agree to in order to get it?

I might seem to lean one way over another to you, but I will put my objectivity up against yours anyday. Start digging up your old posts and show how flexible you are, I dare you. Until then, don't go getting all hostile on me.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

It befuddles me that people actually believe what they read in the papers 9or on the internet for that matter). Unless there is a direct quote I question every damn thing, and sometimes I question them too.

Why do fans of the same club fight over crap written in the newspaper?

There shouldn't be a fight. The article raised questions and they have been asked. Nobody is saying that the new ticket don't have the answers though.

There is no direct quote, so I have questioned the wording of the article. I have been waiting to be knocked off my feet and the initial announcement has fallen well short of what I was expecting.

I'm hoping to be impressed in the coming days however.