It's war: Essendon vs AFL. [Multiple reports of punishment - ASADA infractions still possible]

[Kavliaris69]

Seriously is this the next line Essendon supporters are going to run...a philosophical discussion on the meaning of performance enhancing?

Just like you I was left speechless after that one. Maybe tell them not to jack off as that may also be performance enhancing their manhood. It must have been an 8 year old.

 

[FyfesBoot]

Paul Little called on the other club presidents to support a motion of no confidence in the AFL, then was too chicken-s**t to turn up to the meeting. If he wants to stay "highly respected" he better start getting his s**t together.

EDIT apparently he was there but the other 17 met in the absence of the AFL and Essendon to formulate their decision.

He wasn't actually there, he attended by phone. Unless it was a hoax caller.

 

[Blue1980]

He wasn't actually there, he attended by phone. Unless it was a hoax caller.

I sense a new thread coming on.

 

[FuManchu]

Of course i'm still fighting because what's happening at the AFL is a load of ****.

Oh yeah he's gonna sue the club right . Why don't the AFL have an independent Panel hey? What's wrong for them to ask that?

Because when they agreed to terms to being part of the AFL, they agreed to the tribunal mechanisms, as did Adelaide and as did Carlton, who all faced the commission.

 

[Laphroaig]

Of course i'm still fighting because what's happening at the AFL is a load of ****.

Oh yeah he's gonna sue the club right . Why don't the AFL have an independent Panel hey? What's wrong for them to ask that?

History 101.

The AFL commission IS an independent panel. Every Club agreed to surrender the majority of their individual powers in governing the league. They set out to establish an independent body, thunk it through very carefully and unanimously agreed that this was the model of an independent body they wanted.

 

[Hearts to hearts]

The Commission is independent of the clubs, so it can make decisions without having to please every club or go through horse trading between them.

Their "conflict of interest" is that they do have a vested intent in the reputation of the competition being protected, as well as its rules upheld, where a bench of judges wouldn't. I can see why Essendon wants to take it outside, but it's not in anyone else's interests that it happens.

 

[Laphroaig]

. I can see why Essendon wants to take it outside, but it's not in anyone else's interests that it happens.

And the courts have repeatedly displayed a profound disinterest in picking up the ball and running with it. And not just with the AFL.

 

[Argy]

And the courts have repeatedly displayed a profound disinterest in picking up the ball and running with it. And not just with the AFL.

James Brayshaw actually said something sensible last night on TFS. He explained that the commission was set up a couple of decades ago when the league was almost bankrupt because infighting and self interest had made the organisation unworkable. All twelve (or fourteen??) clubs at the time agreed to handover some of their powers to the commission.

About ten years ago they all agreed to give up virtually all their powers to the commission. I think the only powers they have left relate to admitting new member clubs and expelling existing clubs (note of warning for EFC fans: expulsion is by agreement of a simple majority of clubs).

Courts are very reluctant to become involved in sporting organisations which have a properly constituted set of rules. One reason is that all parties have agreed to abide by the rules in return for the right to participate. Another reason is that, as opposed to the rule of law that is imposed by the state, each party to the agreement has recourse to the ultimate remedy if it feels it has been hard done by. It can simply leave the organisation. Decline to compete, decline to be judged.

Essendon's problem is that it wants to compete, but does not want to be bound by the rules.

 

[Chadwiko]

If you guys want proof of the disconnect between the picture Essendon is trying to paint, and reality, then look no further;

Paul Little's quote;

''I call on commission chairman Mike Fitzpatrick to step in and take over this process as I, along with a significant percentage of the football public, have lost total confidence in the AFL executive to handle this matter.''

Peter Gordon's rebuttal;

"We wish to unanimously express our confidence in the AFL Commission and AFL management," Gordon said on behalf of the 17 clubs.

 

[Nikita Blue]

If you guys want proof of the disconnect between the picture Essendon is trying to paint, and reality, then look no further;

Paul Little's quote;




Peter Gordon's rebuttal;

I guess if you only listen to shock jocks and read News Limited you could come to that conclusion. Either wilfully ignorant or in complete denial.

 

[Demon1993]

When I read this article I couldn't resist compare James Hird with Ryan Braun
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/brewers-slugger-braun-finally-admits-drug-use/

 

[Smiling Buddha]

If you guys want proof of the disconnect between the picture Essendon is trying to paint, and reality, then look no further;

Paul Little's quote;

Peter Gordon's rebuttal;

Are you actually trying to suggest that the 17 club presidents speak on behalf of the football public?

I don't know why I ever took you seriously.

 

[DanWA]

17 clubs unanimously come together, good bye Hird/Little.

 

[Chadwiko]

Are you actually trying to suggest that the 17 club presidents speak on behalf of the football public?

Are you trying to suggest that they somehow do not?

I happen to think that the club presidents responsibility is to speak on behalf of their club and their members.

 

[Laphroaig]

When I read this article I couldn't resist compare James Hird with Ryan Braun
http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/brewers-slugger-braun-finally-admits-drug-use/

Nice get, though I doubt we'll ever hear anything like that from Hird, at least until he's sitting on a couch with Oprah.

This public comment resonated though:

The only thing worse than a cheater, is a cheater who refuses to acknowledge they have been caught.

 

[mickeyjuice]

Are you actually trying to suggest that the 17 club presidents speak on behalf of the football public?

Apart from the fact that it's pretty obvious that only Hird-deifiers and the occasional non-thinker from elsewhere are buying Hird's/Essendon's story, the point is that what the club presidents think COUNTS. Unlike the average bloke on the street.

 

[Tiger71]

James Brayshaw actually said something sensible last night on TFS. He explained that the commission was set up a couple of decades ago when the league was almost bankrupt because infighting and self interest had made the organisation unworkable. All twelve (or fourteen??) clubs at the time agreed to handover some of their powers to the commission.

About ten years ago they all agreed to give up virtually all their powers to the commission. I think the only powers they have left relate to admitting new member clubs and expelling existing clubs (note of warning for EFC fans: expulsion is by agreement of a simple majority of clubs).

Courts are very reluctant to become involved in sporting organisations which have a properly constituted set of rules. One reason is that all parties have agreed to abide by the rules in return for the right to participate. Another reason is that, as opposed to the rule of law that is imposed by the state, each party to the agreement has recourse to the ultimate remedy if it feels it has been hard done by. It can simply leave the organisation. Decline to compete, decline to be judged.

Essendon's problem is that it wants to compete, but does not want to be bound by the rules.

Perfect post.

unfortunately the decision makers at essendon are to arrogant to see it.

 

[Argy]

Perfect post.

unfortunately the decision makers at essendon are to arrogant to see it.

I think Little and Hird have seriously underestimated the will of the commission and the seventeen other clubs.

Based on Brayshaw's response to Barrett's comments on TFS last night I think the 17 seriously discussed suspending EFC until this is resolved. In my view this path is a hell of a lot cleaner than the tribunal process.

The suspension would not be a pre-judgement of EFC or Hird, but based on the pragmatic view that the competition cannot function effectively with the uncertainty arising from the current situation and the potential delays due to the approach that EFC/Hird have elected to take.

 

[Tiger71]

I think Little and Hird have seriously underestimated the will of the commission and the seventeen other clubs.

Based on Brayshaw's response to Barrett's comments on TFS last night I think the 17 seriously discussed suspending EFC until this is resolved. In my view this path is a hell of a lot cleaner than the tribunal process.

The suspension would not be a pre-judgement of EFC or Hird, but based on the pragmatic view that the competition cannot function effectively with the uncertainty arising from the current situation and the potential delays due to the approach that EFC/Hird have elected to take.

I hope that happens, for the games sake

 

[Laphroaig]

Based on Brayshaw's response to Barrett's comments on TFS last night I think the 17 seriously discussed suspending EFC until this is resolved. In my view this path is a hell of a lot cleaner than the tribunal process.

I'd suspect more than that.

I'd suggest it was recommended to Little that he go away and have a candid chat with his board and come up with a solution tout suite. Because in the absence of a neat solution, we're gunna have another meeting.

 

[Kenno27]

Have heard there is an absolute massive story that will break over the weekend that finally nails Hird.

 

[hoianbulldog]

Oh, and Hirdy has Wayne Carey and Alan Jones in his corner. That'll help...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...case/story-fni5f6kv-1226702368189#mm-breached

Wayne Carey said:

"If the AFL is the body that has brought the charges against Essendon, how can the AFL then sit in judgement of the Bombers? It makes no sense,"

So if the crown bring a charge against me, the crown should be the ones to pass judgement or sentence? That's what he is saying.

 

[Smoky]

Have heard there is an absolute massive story that will break over the weekend that finally nails Hird.

I heard that in February...

 

[The_Reaper]

Wayne Carey said:

"If the AFL is the body that has brought the charges against Essendon, how can the AFL then sit in judgement of the Bombers? It makes no sense,"

So if the crown bring a charge against me, the crown should be the ones to pass judgement or sentence? That's what he is saying.

If the AFL bring charges against me for striking then how can the AFL tribunal sit judgement?

 

[00Stinger]

Oh, and Hirdy has Wayne Carey and Alan Jones in his corner. That'll help...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...case/story-fni5f6kv-1226702368189#mm-breached

Well Carey was a character witness for Jason Moran, maybe he could do the same for Hirdy