John Butcher again

[Kaiser Powser]

I hope your not serious.......

You abuse a Carlton fan for making an offer of Russell and a pick, then you suggest Hocking (a glorified tagger) as a straight swap. You are taking the piss arent you?

Wow that went straight over your head.

Yes I'm taking the piss.

He stated that Russell finished second in Carlton's b&f as if that was a telling factor.

Hocking finished second in Essendons (I think, could not be fagged checking). Hence the strongly sarcastic offer of Hocking for Butcher.

I'm trying to make Carlton fans realise how silly their offers of "excess to requirement player + late draft pick for future KPP superstar" sound.

 

[Greg Brady]

Wow that went straight over your head.

Yes I'm taking the piss.

He stated that Russell finished second in Carlton's b&f as if that was a telling factor.

Hocking finished second in Essendons (I think, could not be fagged checking). Hence the strongly sarcastic offer of Hocking for Butcher.

I'm trying to make Carlton fans realise how silly their offers of "excess to requirement player + late draft pick for future KPP superstar" sound.

My bad, usually all attempts at sarcasmare followed by an emoticon on bigfooty, so pardon me.

SUre, the offers are silly, but suggestions that Carlton will have to offer something like Gibbs + their first rounder are just as stupid. The kids played three games with a similar return as J. Westhoff. He may like Westhoff struggle to put on weight and have this issue throughout his career.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Second in the Essendon B&F last year was not saying much. Second to a Brownlow medallist in a finals team is a fair bit better.

Anyway, despite the BF experts such as yourself The Distributer coming up with all these "great" notional trades, I think two main points are these:

1. Butcher is out of contract, and Port will negotiate in good faith if he decides to go. They'll do what they can to get the best deal possible.

2. Carlton have a strong history of negotiating fairly and getting results.

So, could Carlton and Port come to some sort of agreement if Butcher wanted to go? Yes. And I don't think they'll be looking to BF posts for inspiration as they'd feel they know their own players and lists better than the average BF armchair expert.

I have not come up with notional trades, I am paying out the notional trades.

You claim Carlton will pair fair price for Butcher. So in too many words, you are agreeing with me that two of Russell, Hampson, Bowyer and a second rounder will not get the deal done.

Port will want something of serious worth. They did not bend over for Stevens or Burgoyne.

 

[Monkey King]

I'm trying to make Carlton fans realise how silly their offers of "excess to requirement player + late draft pick for future KPP superstar" sound.

This is not what Calton fans have suggested. Russell and Hampson are not excess to requirement by any means and posters were suggesting a first rounder, potentially upgraded. Do you really need the distortions to make your point?

 

[KennyHunter9]

Wow that went straight over your head.

Yes I'm taking the piss.

He stated that Russell finished second in Carlton's b&f as if that was a telling factor.

Hocking finished second in Essendons (I think, could not be fagged checking). Hence the strongly sarcastic offer of Hocking for Butcher.

I'm trying to make Carlton fans realise how silly their offers of "excess to requirement player + late draft pick for future KPP superstar" sound.

Actually your silliness is nicely contained within your own post.

How can a player be both second in the B&F and excess to requirements?

Is Hocking now excess to requirements?

That is one of the biggest fails I've seen.

Russell, as many have said, missed a chunk of pre-season and is on a modified training program that incorporates game time in the Bullants. The aim is to get him properly fit for finals. He may or may not come up. His pre-season and the injury is the issue.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

My bad, usually all attempts at sarcasmare followed by an emoticon on bigfooty, so pardon me.

SUre, the offers are silly, but suggestions that Carlton will have to offer something like Gibbs + their first rounder are just as stupid. The kids played three games with a similar return as J. Westhoff. He may like Westhoff struggle to put on weight and have this issue throughout his career.

Gibbs would certainly be overs.

But i just can't see what Carlton could offer that would please Port. I mean can anyone enlighten me? Port would want low picks I would imagine.

 

[Damo80]

I'd hate to think how much Jack Riewoldt would be worth on the open market if Butcher has played 2 games and is already worth Gibbs plus sweetener, or 2 first round picks (including a top 5, if not pick 1).

I might have to go back and watch the replays of the last coupla Port games... all I've seen is some brief highlights where I saw one of the worst kicking actions I can recall seeing in the AFL, and a few of his 10 goals that helicoptered through by sheer luck.

Maybe Port should trade him now... his value can only go down from here

 

[PAFC_1870]

Relax mate. He'll re-sign with Port once there are a few more zeroes on his contract. Just part of the fun and games, and his manager will be part of it without doubt.

I just find the media and people's interpretation of it mind boggling.

People seem to join dots without any facts whatsoever to back it up.

Yeah Carlton, Melbourne, etc etc need a fwd, no shit.

But he has always come out and said he loves the place, his best mate signed today/yesterday whatever, everyone seems pretty happy.

Yet Robertson and KB, the two most senile people in the media (maybe along with Blighty) try and make news out of nothing to up their (shit) ratings.

 

[PooMonkey]

Robbo is an Essendon supporter you tool

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Actually your silliness is nicely contained within your own post.

How can a player be both second in the B&F and excess to requirements?

Is Hocking now excess to requirements?

That is one of the biggest fails I've seen.

Russell, as many have said, missed a chunk of pre-season and is on a modified training program that incorporates game time in the Bullants. The aim is to get him properly fit for finals. He may or may not come up. His pre-season and the injury is the issue.

My god you are a loser.

Russell could be covered in the blink of an eye at Carlton. A KPF is crucial if you guys are to win a premiership. Is this news to you?

If you are seriously suggesting that the Blues would miss a nights sleep at the loss of Russell to solve their Key position problems, then you are the fail.

 

[ThePine]

port will want way too much for him because he is all they have.

can't see trade getting done with anyone unless he is adamant he will walk.

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Russell and Hampson is worth less than the pick we drated him with.

 

[Kaiser Powser]

This is not what Calton fans have suggested. Russell and Hampson are not excess to requirement by any means and posters were suggesting a first rounder, potentially upgraded. Do you really need the distortions to make your point?

Well the first post I saw on the Blues board was Russell + second rounder.

So I'm not really sure what the distortion is.

 

[Monkey King]

Well the first post I saw on the Blues board was Russell + second rounder.

So I'm not really sure what the distortion is.

If you're having trouble finding it, just read through this thread. What you've claimed of Blues posters and what they've actually posted seem to be pretty different. Idiotic statements like yours inhibit decent discussion.

 

[Jonts]

Firstly Butcher is not a gun CHF, he's a promising CHF. Let's not allow emotions to blow things out of perspective. Secondly, Judd and Ablett are better than any CHF since Wayne Carey, so the logic behind using this cliche as a reason for why this two gamer is worth more than the best players in the game, is weak at best.

Re. the Judd trade. Carlton chose to offload pick 3 and Kennedy to keep pick 1. So no, not even Judd got pick one. Assuming Butcher's worth as this will only leave you disappointed.

Future gun, 3 gamer, and i'm saying Pick 3 plus Kennedy= pick 1 and pick 30 easily

Butcher has the potential to be as good as Carey,thats why his price will be so high, his draft placing in 2009 he slipped because of a back injury, Port got rid of this by putting him in cotton wool for the 2010 season and just letting him put on core strength. It also slipped because of his kicking, Mark Williams and Hocking have spent ages fixing this up he has kicked 11.2? IIRC, if he was in the draft this year he would go pick 1 and GWS would consider themselves very lucky

 

[Kaiser Powser]

If you're having trouble finding it, just read through this thread. What you've claimed of Blues posters and what they've actually posted seem to be pretty different. Idiotic statements like yours inhibit decent discussion.

Your post re Lucas and Ebert has been one of the few realistic and intelligent posts.

Most have proposed either Russell, Hampson etc. So I don't think my post was totally unjustifeid as you suggest.

Essendon fans were called biased idiots for suggesting Lovett was worth a second rounder. So decent discussion is pretty hard to come by on BF.

 

[goodoldcats]

I'd hate to think how much Jack Riewoldt would be worth on the open market if Butcher has played 2 games and is already worth Gibbs plus sweetener, or 2 first round picks (including a top 5, if not pick 1).

I might have to go back and watch the replays of the last coupla Port games... all I've seen is some brief highlights where I saw one of the worst kicking actions I can recall seeing in the AFL, and a few of his 10 goals that helicoptered through by sheer luck.

Maybe Port should trade him now... his value can only go down from here

This pretty much sums up this thread

 

[Monkey King]

Your post re Lucas and Ebert has been one of the few realistic and intelligent posts.

Thanks. I'm just trying to work through the various possibilities of getting a trade done from Carlton's perspective. Most of what I've seen from either side seems well of the pace, so I was hoping to come across some open-minded Port posters willing to bandy around a few potentials.

Most have proposed either Russell, Hampson etc. So I don't think my post was totally unjustifeid as you suggest.

My point was neither of those players are surplus to requirement and the pick I've seen suggested was our first pick. Just seems you were stirring up the nest with your comments and it's hard enough getting a decent discussion going without that complication.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Everyone thought Trengove was gone, re-signed, everyone said Carlisle was gone, re-signed, everyone is saying Butcher is gone...maybe he'll re-sign

 

[Monkey King]

Fututre gun, 3 gamer, and i'm saying Pick 3 plus Kennedy= pick 1 and pick 30 easily

Butcher has the potential to be as good as Carey, and you will have to pay overs for him

Well, you blokes certainly do (over?)rate him that's for sure.

Wanting what WCE got for Judd and comparing Butcher to Carey should be adequate enough warning that you're drifting from realistic discussion.

 

[KennyHunter9]

My god you are a loser.

Russell could be covered in the blink of an eye at Carlton. A KPF is crucial if you guys are to win a premiership. Is this news to you?

If you are seriously suggesting that the Blues would miss a nights sleep at the loss of Russell to solve their Key position problems, then you are the fail.

You're slip sliding away.

First you say Russell is excess. Wrong. You'd be hard pressed to find a club where the second in the B&F is regarded as excess. And CFC is certainly not the place when second is to Judd.

Now you say add a good KPF, minus Russell = net gain.

Two completely different arguments. I can accept the second, though it's still arguable depending on how Matthew Watson comes up in 2012 as a second year player with a good pre-season and whether Lachie Henderson continues his good development at CHB or CHF.

 

[Jonts]

Well, you blokes certainly do (over?)rate him that's for sure.

Wanting what WCE got for Judd and comparing Butcher to Carey should be adequate enough warning that you're drifting from realistic discussion.

I rate his potential higher than anyone's in the comp, his average of 3.75 goals a game in the worst team in the comp is pretty good too, if you read the whole post i say he has the potential to be good as Carey, so MK you don't think that Butcher was in the draft this year he wouldn't go pick 1??

but then again he's signing anyway

Why isn't Russell in your best 22 at the moment?

 

[Monkey King]

He's signing anyway

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Good luck to him either way.

Why isn't Russell in your best 22 at the moment?

I think his preseason issues have already been gone over in this thread.

 

[Monkey King]

I rate his potential higher than anyone's in the comp, his average of 3.75 goals a game in the worst team in the comp is pretty good too, if you read the whole post i say he has the potential to be good as Carey, so MK you don't think that Butcher was in the draft this year he wouldn't go pick 1??

His average is over 2 games. Means pretty much nothing at all. I can't accept the Carey comments, so I will let them pass without further comment, as to me they demonstrate the fanboy hyperbole derailing this thread.

Would he go pick 1? Not sure. Maybe after his last two games; absolutely not from a month ago. lol Would Judd have gone pick 1? Ablett? Did that make their trades any different? Considering Butcher dropped to pick 8 in his own draft, he may well not; his game still the flaws that led him to slide. It's all just fantasy guesswork though isn't it.

 

[Jonts]

His average is over 2 games. Means pretty much nothing at all. I can't accept the Carey comments, so I will let them pass without further comment, as to me they demonstrate the fanboy hyperbole derailing this thread.

Would he go pick 1? Not sure. Maybe after his last two games; absolutely not from a month ago. lol Would Judd have gone pick 1? Ablett? Did that make their trades any different? Considering Butcher dropped to pick 8 in his own draft, he may well not; his game still the flaws that led him to slide. It's all just fantasy guesswork though isn't it.

3 games, had great early form for Magpies close to debut then did a hammy strain what set him back a bit and then Port had to send off Chad what sent him back a game or 2

I thought his back injury and inaccurate kicking with 11.2 IRRC was gone?? silly me

Truely is