Jonathan Hay an eagle in 2004?

[The Chemist]

i like the sound of that, i read in the paper hawthorn may have to offload some talls because of salary cap, eagles need to bolster our defence, why not? perfect timing! remember he was all-australian full back in 2001 still fairly young, 24 i think. may have to give up first round pick and maybe someone like morrison (if the hawks try and hold out on us) but i think he's worth it. what do you all think?

btw... im new!

 

[The Passenger]

Yea I'd love it and I think he could be in our sights for 2004.

but it depends on what salary he is on, and what the Hawks want.

If they were willing to give off their second round pick as wll in the deal, I'd consider giving Cox off, but only if we can get another back-up ruckman from another club.

Depends on the situation though, and I seriously think it could be worth a shot, and given the Tigers problem's and they may be looking to load off someone like Otten's if the price was right.

There are so many variables though, but you can't rule out of the possibly of these types of trades, but we've gotta realize to get these guys, we have to give up quality.

 

[Juddyzthebest]

yeh i heard that they were gunna trade wirra for hay

 

[Altum Volantes]

yeh i heard that they were gunna trade wirra for hay

every....damn.....year......

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by Juddyzthebest
yeh i heard that they were gunna trade wirra for hay

That will happen on the same day that hell freezes over.

 

[Juddyzthebest]

hope ure rite guys! But i dun wanna lose big coxy either! I rekn hed be just wat we need in our developing backline now that milli and jacko r gunna hang up teh boots soon

 

[chrisjudd3]

I wouldn;t mind trading Cox actually, we have a rich reserve of ruck talent and I think its time to give Seaby a berth in AFL ranks.
Coxy is good enough but not near enough - he's battled manfully but hasn't been able to dominate. He's basically trade bait.

We need backmen more than rucks. It would be a good trade.

Cox/Morrison and 1st draft pik for Hay and 3rd rnd.

 

[The Passenger]

cj3,

agreed Dean Cox is very good trade bait.

But that is ONLY if we can secure another backup ruckman/forward or ruckman/backman in the trade period, which is why I've been keen on Otten's lately.

If we trade Cox, and recruit no other rucking options, and Gardiner breaks down next year (which going on history, he will miss at leas 3 matches), we can't go in with an untested Seaby or Beeck.

BTW we're getting robbed if we give Cox plus 1st rnd pick for Hay plus 3rd rnd pick.

Cox for Hay plus 2nd/3rd rnd pick would be fair for mine.

Maybe Cox for Hay straight, but i'm sure we can bargain them into giving us another pick.

Remember, it will be them desperate to sell, at it seems Hay isn't signing with them and he may be doing so because he wants to return to WA, while we aren't desperate to sell Cox. We are more than happy to keep him, so they have to convince us to agree to the trade.


Also, another reason why Cox is good traid bait, is because it could be good for both him and the Eagles.

Cox is too good of a footballer to spend so much time on the bench. And the reason he spend's so much time on the bench is because he is a first line ruckman. He doesn't play anywhere else on the field, he can only pinch hit in the forward line. And he can't force his way in front of Gardiner - no one could atm.

So if he went to a club were he would be the first ruckman, he'd get a lot more time doing what he does best.

While for us, if we had Gardiner, and a utility ruckman (like Ottens) we wouldn't have a situation were our backup ruckman spends half a game or more on the bench because they can't play anywhere else.....

 

[Mead]

I'm beginning to revise my thoughts on Dean Cox's value in recent weeks.

Cox is pretty damn good value atm, but its worth realising just where he is in terms of his career. Physically, he's still a beanpole- that will change. Another couple of preseasons will see him with a Gardiner-ish physique. His skills, marking ability and footy brain are all present, his body just hasn't quite caught up yet.

If we trade him for a decent tall, so be it- Hay or Rawlings are good enough to justify a pretty high cost.

However, as BT says, there are very good arguments to keep him on the list. Gardiner has traditionally been injury prone, Seaby and Co. are most likely going to be clones of Cox, albeit 2-3 years less developed, and its doubtful that we've seen the best of big Dean just yet.

 

[The Passenger]

Another option could be to keep Cox on our list for one more year because I think he's trade value will only increase in that time, meaning we can get even more for him.


But I think it will be unfair for him to play out his entire career at the Eagles - he'll NEVER (unless something drastic happens) get his nose in front of Gardiner, and because he is nothing more than a pinch-hitting forward, he'll spend his entire career playing half a game or more on the bench. He is clearly a better player than that.

 

[Greaves]

Hawks will not trade for cox, when only last year they got everitt.

 

[The Passenger]

Originally posted by Greaves
Hawks will not trade for cox, when only last year they got everitt.

that's a point, but Everitt doesn't exactly have years left in him.

And call me biased but I reckon Cox is a better tap ruckman, and for the Hawks this would allow Everitt to move up forward, wher I believe he is most dangerous.

It would give them quite a potent ruck combination next year if they did recruit Cox, while in the future Campbell and Cox would be a good comibanation from a Hawks point of view........

I remember saying about 2 months ago that this would be a very quiet draft period in general, not just with the Eagles, but over the last couple of weeks, this has changed, and it could become VERY interesting.......for all clubs, not just us.

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by Black Thunder
Another option could be to keep Cox on our list for one more year because I think he's trade value will only increase in that time, meaning we can get even more for him.


But I think it will be unfair for him to play out his entire career at the Eagles - he'll NEVER (unless something drastic happens) get his nose in front of Gardiner, and because he is nothing more than a pinch-hitting forward, he'll spend his entire career playing half a game or more on the bench. He is clearly a better player than that.

I really don't think you can say with any certainty what Cox will or won't be. Players change, and talls are particularly notorious for developing slowly. Gardiner is a classic example of this- last year he was arguably a top 10 ruckman in the league, right now he is top dog, but it took him a lot of years as an also-ran to get there.

The point I'm making is that Cox has a career ahead of him- and may develop into as good or better ruckman as Gardiner, or that gun CHF/FF we were looking for. Obviously that's rose colored glasses type thing, but I'd like to see him physically matured before making that call.

 

[drexel]

We should offer 1st Round pick and a couple of fringe players. I've started to rate Cox pretty highly, mostly for his around the ground ability. Plus as a pinch hitting forward, he will be as good as any with his accurate kick.
He got 21 possesions and 2 goals which is alot for a ruckman. Even Gardiner usually gets only 15 in a good game.
I don't see why in tandem they won't be the best ruck combination in the AFL next year.

 

[Jabber]

Cox has shown his worth the last few weeks when Gardiner was missing, just like he did last year. I'd really like to hang on to him but he would be worth top dollar to some clubs, and we have a logjam of young ruckmen sitting in the WAFL at the moment.

 

[carlyp]

What would cox be like in defence? Maybe as our much needed FullBack????

 

[carn_the_nmfc]

That definately won't be happening.

That's all news to hawthorn footy club. I don't think Hawthorn could afford to lose Jonny Hay.

You might end up getting David Loats or Robert Campbell off us though.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by goaldrush
That definately won't be happening.

That's all news to hawthorn footy club. I don't think Hawthorn could afford to lose Jonny Hay.

You might end up getting David Loats or Robert Campbell off us though.

Suzi, havent you heard the news? Hawthorn are well over the salary cap and need to get rid of one of there high profile talls or the AFL will kick their arse. Jonathon Hay is from WA and there is a possibility that he MAY want to come home. Hawthorn really have no choice in the matter, if Hay wants to go, he'll go.

 

[Jabber]

Originally posted by goaldrush
That definately won't be happening.

That's all news to hawthorn footy club. I don't think Hawthorn could afford to lose Jonny Hay.

You might end up getting David Loats or Robert Campbell off us though.

Yeah we are so desperate for a ruckman after all

 

[Voice of Reason]

Originally posted by goaldrush
That definately won't be happening.

That's all news to hawthorn footy club. I don't think Hawthorn could afford to lose Jonny Hay.

You might end up getting David Loats or Robert Campbell off us though.

You'd better ring Schwabby and let him know:
a) the Hawks are way over the salary cap
b) the days of Hawthorn trading players they don't want to us finished when Ken Judge left and
c) we've got more good ruckmen than you can poke a stick at and we ain't taking your hacks.

I don't think they'll be able to trade Holland (no one will take him), so if Rawlings stays (no sure thing), the Hawks will have to unload someone. If it's Hay, we may stand a chance, but don't assume he necessarily wants to come back to WA in the short term.

I wouldn't trade too much for him as he's a bit one-dimensional. Obviously I'd like to have him at the back, but we shouldn't break the bank for him.

 

[masai]

I'll be the devils advocate.

Earlier this year I said you should look at trading players like Cox and Wirrapunda while their value is high, to gain KPP's. I have rethought the value of Cox, he has blossomed in Gardies absence.

Having spoken to 2 well placed individuals I put forward the proposal of, if the offer is good enough, trade Gardie. He has not "settled" off the field this year (as opposed to Embley), and a new environment might be good for him. I know you all love him, but he can be injury prone and if you need a KPP really badly, all options must be looked at.

Just thinking outside the square ...........

 

[Jabber]

Originally posted by masai
I'll be the devils advocate.

Earlier this year I said you should look at trading players like Cox and Wirrapunda while their value is high, to gain KPP's. I have rethought the value of Cox, he has blossomed in Gardies absence.

Having spoken to 2 well placed individuals I put forward the proposal of, if the offer is good enough, trade Gardie. He has not "settled" off the field this year (as opposed to Embley), and a new environment might be good for him. I know you all love him, but he can be injury prone and if you need a KPP really badly, all options must be looked at.

Just thinking outside the square ...........

Way outside the square - Some valid points, but I'd hate to be playing against a side with Gardy. His only problem with injury this year is a result of the centre square rucking rule - could happen to any ruckman.

 

[carlyp]

Originally posted by masai
I'll be the devils advocate.

Earlier this year I said you should look at trading players like Cox and Wirrapunda while their value is high, to gain KPP's. I have rethought the value of Cox, he has blossomed in Gardies absence.

Having spoken to 2 well placed individuals I put forward the proposal of, if the offer is good enough, trade Gardie. He has not "settled" off the field this year (as opposed to Embley), and a new environment might be good for him. I know you all love him, but he can be injury prone and if you need a KPP really badly, all options must be looked at.

Just thinking outside the square ...........

Never, ever would I trade Gardiner. He's too good a player to trade.

 

[Captain Random]

Give 'em Seaby and a pick.

 

[Voice of Reason]

Originally posted by masai
I'll be the devils advocate.

Earlier this year I said you should look at trading players like Cox and Wirrapunda while their value is high, to gain KPP's. I have rethought the value of Cox, he has blossomed in Gardies absence.

Having spoken to 2 well placed individuals I put forward the proposal of, if the offer is good enough, trade Gardie. He has not "settled" off the field this year (as opposed to Embley), and a new environment might be good for him. I know you all love him, but he can be injury prone and if you need a KPP really badly, all options must be looked at.

Just thinking outside the square ...........

I did consider this option - and it's not stupid - but I think he is settled enough to play and hopefully he can remain injury-free.