Society/Culture Jordan B Peterson

[mcnulty]

JP was good until he got really famous. The haters really got to him, and the acolytes got to him too, in a different way. He always said that anyone of reasonable intellect that had anything interesting to say would necessarily miss the mark at times, otherwise they would not be interesting. Problem is I think he gave himself way too much leeway in this regard when he got popular, he got positive feedback for some of his less rigorously thought out stuff, and he slowly but surely lost the plot.

And then somewhere along the way instead of thinking critically he entered that most tiresome battle that is the modern culture wars.

I kind of see the same with Musk. People react to the things you say, some positively and some negatively, and over time you harden your position. All of which is amplified by social media. You tend to count on the support you get and lump reasonable criticism in with the inevitable attacks. Becomes us v them, and you become more extreme. Or if not extreme, more rigid in your thinking.

Think we see this all around us with the advent of social media. s**t think we see it on BF.

 

[Chief]

His 12 rules weren't rocket science, but they were practical: clean your room, take responsibility, stand up straight. They hit me at a time when I was feeling adrift, and yeah, they helped. People were getting their lives together, finding meaning, thanks to JP. It was inspiring.

It was basically a blog post of unoriginal stuff cobbled together in a meth-fuelled weekend.

 

[ferball]

JP was good until he got really famous. The haters really got to him, and the acolytes got to him too, in a different way. He always said that anyone of reasonable intellect that had anything interesting to say would necessarily miss the mark at times, otherwise they would not be interesting. Problem is I think he gave himself way too much leeway in this regard when he got popular, he got positive feedback for some of his less rigorously thought out stuff, and he slowly but surely lost the plot.

And then somewhere along the way instead of thinking critically he entered that most tiresome battle that is the modern culture wars.

When he started spouting Nazi propaganda he should have been shot out of a cannon.

 

[kickazz]

When he started spouting Nazi propaganda he should have been shot out of a cannon.

He often cited Nazi and Soviet behaviour when decrying the 20th century as quite horrible, so it surprises me he got on the Nazi propoganda train, when did he do that?

 

[kickazz]

It was basically a blog post of unoriginal stuff cobbled together in a meth-fuelled weekend.

Yeah, like any of those sorts of books it might not be that original but I found he articulated some points well; and there is a cohort of young people for which it could be really helpful.

BUT. Geez some of his tangents were almost unreadable. Definitely needed some editing. Meth fuelled is not the worst way to describe it.

 

[Gralin]

He often cited Nazi and Soviet behaviour when decrying the 20th century as quite horrible, so it surprises me he got on the Nazi propoganda train, when did he do that?

Since at least 2016

 

[ferball]

He often cited Nazi and Soviet behaviour when decrying the 20th century as quite horrible, so it surprises me he got on the Nazi propoganda train, when did he do that?

When he started using the term cultural marxism, which has a slightly different name to the term the nazis used - cultural bolshevism, but refers to exactly the same thing in exactly the same way.

With the addition of criticising a group formed to understand why totalitarianism and nazism rose to promionance (the so called Frankfurt School).

 

[kickazz]

Yeah that "cultural Marxism" phrase was shithoise, and every two bit RWNJ loves using it. I did like his early critiques of some aspects of modern progressives, it held us to account, but this was always best when he critiqued specific issues.

Then when it all morphed into this nebulous "cultural Marxism", then, well, how.much more "imprecise with your speech" could one get? He traded in his own values for a seat at the culture wars table. Boo.

 

[Gralin]

Yeah that "cultural Marxism" phrase was shithoise, and every two bit RWNJ loves using it. I did like his early critiques of some aspects of modern progressives, it held us to account, but this was always best when he critiqued specific issues.

Then when it all morphed into this nebulous "cultural Marxism", then, well, how.much more "imprecise with your speech" could one get? He traded in his own values for a seat at the culture wars table. Boo.

Did he trade in his values or did he work out he did he work out he didn't need tk be that smart to make money?
He's always said he was a traditionalist, a classic liberal etc

Which largely reads as a conservative these days because he's saying they already got it right

 

[kickazz]

Did he trade in his values or did he work out he did he work out he didn't need tk be that smart to make money?
He's always said he was a traditionalist, a classic liberal etc

Which largely reads as a conservative these days because he's saying they already got it right

Yeah, well with the money side of things he certainly seemed to ignore his Rule 7 in that regard. (Pursuing what is meaningful, not expedient)

 

[Gralin]

Yeah, well with the money side of things he certainly seemed to ignore his Rule 7 in that regard. (Pursuing what is meaningful, not expedient)

He might find the money more meaningful.

At the end of the day most of the stuff people write in these books aren't their own lives it's what sells

 

[kickazz]

Did he trade in his values or did he work out he did he work out he didn't need tk be that smart to make money?
He's always said he was a traditionalist, a classic liberal etc

Which largely reads as a conservative these days because he's saying they already got it right

He is no doubt biased by the modern context of problems (social media and self esteem for example) many of his patients have had trouble with, whilst probably not exposed enough to the good things that the "chaos" of modern life have given us. So it's easy for him to slip into "it was much simpler in simple rural Canada" mode.

 

[Gralin]

He is no doubt biased by the modern context of problems (social media and self esteem for example) many of his patients have had trouble with, whilst probably not exposed enough to the good things that the "chaos" of modern life have given us. So it's easy for him to slip into "it was much simpler in simple rural Canada" mode.

yeah but I'm saying he was that guy before the late 2010s already

he's just leaned into it instead of courting a progressive audience because its easier money

 

[ElectricG]

I reckon he was corrupted by money.

 

[Blue1980]

JP was good until he got really famous. The haters really got to him, and the acolytes got to him too, in a different way. He always said that anyone of reasonable intellect that had anything interesting to say would necessarily miss the mark at times, otherwise they would not be interesting. Problem is I think he gave himself way too much leeway in this regard when he got popular, he got positive feedback for some of his less rigorously thought out stuff, and he slowly but surely lost the plot.

And then somewhere along the way instead of thinking critically he entered that most tiresome battle that is the modern culture wars.

Somewhere along the way he saw the easiest path to continue making money

 

[Blue1980]

I kind of see the same with Musk. People react to the things you say, some positively and some negatively, and over time you harden your position. All of which is amplified by social media. You tend to count on the support you get and lump reasonable criticism in with the inevitable attacks. Becomes us v them, and you become more extreme. Or if not extreme, more rigid in your thinking.

Think we see this all around us with the advent of social media. s**t think we see it on BF.

If someone like a Musk just sides with whoever likes him, doesn’t mean he has any real core beliefs does it?

 

[mellowyellow]

I reckon he was corrupted by money.

Very few are not

 

[Gralin]

Remembering this banger

 

[Theseventhhamster]

Remembering this banger
View attachment 1908766

Unlikely to be any dissenting opinions from fans of either of those ladies' men.

 

[CM86]

Yeah that "cultural Marxism" phrase was shithoise, and every two bit RWNJ loves using it. I did like his early critiques of some aspects of modern progressives, it held us to account, but this was always best when he critiqued specific issues.

Then when it all morphed into this nebulous "cultural Marxism", then, well, how.much more "imprecise with your speech" could one get? He traded in his own values for a seat at the culture wars table. Boo.

Kickazz, can you explain to me why so many people who are NOT DEFENDING TRUMP/CARLSON/PETERSON/PUTIN et al, will always claim not to know about something well known.
But then when presented with the evidence of it, they are actively dismissive by pretending they have in-depth knowledge of it??

 

[ferball]

Remembering this banger
View attachment 1908766

Is that real?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Is that real?

No, many women do enjoy sex.

 

[ferball]

No, many women do enjoy sex.

I have it on excellent authority they don't. (At least with those people.)



I meant his comments. Surely that wasn't actually what he said was it? Whenever someone says something that reinforces my own preconceptions so perfectly I always wonder if its bullshit.

 

[bourbons]

Remembering this banger
View attachment 1908766

That can't be a real quote

 

[Gralin]

Is that real?

yeah you can still watch the video on youtube if you want to do irreparable damage to yourself