Society/Culture Jordan B Peterson

[Gralin]

My wife has an old Pete Evans cookbook. I've always thought he was a tosser but these recipes are good and are still worth cooking and eating.

I'd rather cook a recipe from someone that isn't a massive campaigner though

Do I look back at them with more suspicion now? Probably. But there is still some value there. I see JP's book the same way.

Which is fine but it's used to defend who he is now and if someone can't understand that his books are not for everyone that's an issue too

My honest opinion is that he wasn't drawing us in slowly as part of some grifter's long game. Maybe he was, and I've been fooled, but I honestly think he was honest and flawed but sadly with time, and a combination of hubris, fame, trauma and illness has just completely lost the plot.

Again fine i just think he was always a conservative who wanted money and adulation

 

[Gralin]

kickazz I think a general discussion on this topic is
Do you separate the art from the artist.

I say no.

I also say that how the art made you feel before you found out about the artist is not invalidated by that.

But that doesn't mean you have to defend the artist or continuing to like what they do

 

[kickazz]

kickazz I think a general discussion on this topic is
Do you separate the art from the artist.

I say no.

I also say that how the art made you feel before you found out about the artist is not invalidated by that.

But that doesn't mean you have to defend the artist or continuing to like what they do

Yeah this makes sense, but in my case I do separate the art and the artist. I don't know if that is right or wrong, I just do.

 

[Gralin]

Yeah this makes sense, but in my case I do separate the art and the artist. I don't know if that is right or wrong, I just do.

Fine
I don't because I can't

 

[ElectricG]

Ever had a mental illness that was cured by cleaning your bedroom?

A bit maybe

 

[barreness]

The bi line to clean your room was don't try to fix the world before you've fixed your life.

It's ended up a bit ironic; while perhaps good advice for leaders in general(and Peterson himself) it has the effect of sit down, shut up for anyone disadvantaged who comments on issues in society.

A trite conservative notion embedded within some self help, which sums him up

 

[kickazz]

The bi line to clean your room was don't try to fix the world before you've fixed your life.

It's ended up a bit ironic; while perhaps good advice for leaders in general(and Peterson himself) it has the effect of sit down, shut up for anyone disadvantaged who comments on issues in society.

A trite conservative notion embedded within some self help, which sums him up

Yeah I got some "herp derp don't be a hypocrite" vibes from that chapter.

A bit like those folks who tell Pat Cummins to shut up about the environment because he catches lots of planes. The conservatives love a black/white, shut up if you/the solution are/is not perfect approach to stifling change.

There is some value in the rule - you will probably be more respected and you will be better placed to take action if your own backyard is sorted out, for sure. But taking that rule to the extreme is, as you say, a very trite conservative trope.

 

[Chief]

There is some value in the rule - you will probably be more respected and you will be better placed to take action if your own backyard is sorted out, for sure. But taking that rule to the extreme is, as you say, a very trite conservative trope.

The worst thing is that it is hypocrisy over a rubbish position.

For all the truth it holds, he might as well have said "paint yourself blue!" and then refused to paint himself blue.

I think if you acknowledge your own issues and accept that many people can't just stand up straight and get on with the perfect life through sheer force of will, then you will be taken more seriously. Classic conservative failure to acknowledge external forces in everyone's life.

How do you then get what you want given external forces and past events out of your control? Take it by force? That seems acceptable to Peterson, unless you want something he's not prepared to give up or even acknowledge.

Truckies blockading borders over Covid restrictions? Yes that's commendable.

Kids not going to school to highlight demands for change that benefit their own future? Horrible! Criminal! "Woke"!

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

He’s an emotional, hysterical wreck.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[phantom13]

Haha



Totally cool and normal post from a 60 year old professional psychologist and thought leader

I’m confused about which part is a lie?

 

[phantom13]

There’s a lot to be said for the issue of indoctrination from jordys early doors simple advice too.

There’s still a few (a lot) that think his primary school level advice of clean your room to start your day was so groundbreaking that they’ve stayed on his bullshit bandwagon ever since and continuing to promote that 12 simple rules was good only serves to reinforce that he’s worth listening too unfortunately.

 

[Coolangatta]

I watched this. Gees Destiny is a top shelf debater and communicator; finally there's someone who can take on these word salad w***ers like Peterson and Shapiro. I think it's a good move to at least expose these conservative echo chamber audiences to perspectives they may not have heard before.

Destiny has spoken to anyone and everyone of note lately; I hope he goes on Rogan soon.

Peterson came across as an unhinged lunatic, conspiracy nut. Cannot believe how many people take this guy seriously, comparing climate change activism to Nazi's, and all his anti-vax bullshit. Even Shapiro doesn't go as far as Jordan does on the anti-vax crap.

 

[Bloods86]

I watched this. Gees Destiny is a top shelf debater and communicator; finally there's someone who can take on these word salad w***ers like Peterson and Shapiro. I think it's a good move to at least expose these conservative echo chamber audiences to perspectives they may not have heard before.

Destiny has spoken to anyone and everyone of note lately; I hope he goes on Rogan soon.

Peterson came across as an unhinged lunatic, conspiracy nut. Cannot believe how many people take this guy seriously, comparing climate change activism to Nazi's, and all his anti-vax bullshit. Even Shapiro doesn't go as far as Jordan does on the anti-vax crap.

Rogan and then the clowns on PBD (again) thanks. Have watched some of the segments, good to see people combat these guys and not take a backward step.

I did want to climb through the screen and yell at JP about his Big Pharma lies. "The left" is still skeptical of Big Pharma, we just criticise monopolies, price fixing, lack of regulation, want these corporations and tycoons taxed properly (unlike much of "the right") instead of blindly rejecting modern medicine, virology etc (which "the right" mostly doesn't do outright, so it's even more absurd).

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

Peterson clearly isn't well.

 

[Coolangatta]

Rogan and then the clowns on PBD (again) thanks. Have watched some of the segments, good to see people combat these guys and not take a backward step.

I did want to climb through the screen and yell at JP about his Big Pharma lies. "The left" is still skeptical of Big Pharma, we just criticise monopolies, price fixing, lack of regulation, want these corporations and tycoons taxed properly (unlike much of "the right") instead of blindly rejecting modern medicine, virology etc (which "the right" mostly doesn't do outright, so it's even more absurd).

Spot on, he's a *******. I've heard Jocko make that claim once on his podcast and it pissed me off and he isn't even a particularly political person. Of course, I've heard Rogan say that, too, but he's a ******* moron. I also hate the whole "Republicans are the free speech, anti-war party!" line of rhetoric. Bull. s**t.

 

[barreness]

I watched this. Gees Destiny is a top shelf debater and communicator; finally there's someone who can take on these word salad w***ers like Peterson and Shapiro. I think it's a good move to at least expose these conservative echo chamber audiences to perspectives they may not have heard before.

Destiny has spoken to anyone and everyone of note lately; I hope he goes on Rogan soon.

Peterson came across as an unhinged lunatic, conspiracy nut. Cannot believe how many people take this guy seriously, comparing climate change activism to Nazi's, and all his anti-vax bullshit. Even Shapiro doesn't go as far as Jordan does on the anti-vax crap.

Mmmmmmmm, destiny has a bit of form, banned from twitch for inciting violence during BLM

"Bonnell said that "the rioting needs to ******* stop, and if that means like white redneck ******* militia dudes out there mowing down ******* protesters that think that they can torch buildings at ten p.m., then at this point they have my ******* blessing..."[15][16] Bonnell later said that Kyle Rittenhouse was clearly misguided but that his frustration was with rioters who Bonnell believed would scare people into voting for Donald Trump again."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_(streamer)

Plus a very pro Israel stance of late, A liberal shapiro 'enlightened centrist' is my take

 

[ShanDog]

I did want to climb through the screen and yell at JP about his Big Pharma lies. "The left" is still skeptical of Big Pharma, we just criticise monopolies, price fixing, lack of regulation, want these corporations and tycoons taxed properly (unlike much of "the right") instead of blindly rejecting modern medicine, virology etc (which "the right" mostly doesn't do outright, so it's even more absurd).

You're correct about the left in relation to big pharma and taxes etc, but it's also worth noting that what most (including Peterson) don't really acknowledge is that anti-science or science denial is not a left/right thing - all sides do it in different ways. Just in the example of COVID and viruses, Hardcore conservatives or libertarians tend to reject expertise and are more willing to do stuff like inject themselves with bleach to cure COVID because a podcast said so. At the same time, nutty left wingers and progressives will extoll Reiki to solve your "long COVID" disease and insist that the pandemic isn't really over while shaming anyone who doesn't mask-up all day. There's a whole lot more hilarious BS rejection of science both left and right do in relation to plenty of other topics too.

 

[Coolangatta]

Mmmmmmmm, destiny has a bit of form, banned from twitch for inciting violence during BLM

"Bonnell said that "the rioting needs to ******* stop, and if that means like white redneck ******* militia dudes out there mowing down ******* protesters that think that they can torch buildings at ten p.m., then at this point they have my ******* blessing..."[15][16] Bonnell later said that Kyle Rittenhouse was clearly misguided but that his frustration was with rioters who Bonnell believed would scare people into voting for Donald Trump again."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny_(streamer)

Plus a very pro Israel stance of late, A liberal shapiro 'enlightened centrist' is my take

Nah, Destiny is very firmly in the team Biden camp, he has said so numerous times and stated his case for a second term of old Joe's admin.

Yes, he's not as left as the left would hope, but he relentlessly attacks MAGA bullshit in a way that fake centrist MAGA ass kissing grifters like Tim Pool and Russell Brand would never dream of.

When he was talking recently to Chris Williamson he had to stop himself a few times from what he felt like was bullying of conservatives when he was pointing out their insane bullshit.

He just doesn't want to come across as biased and perhaps overcorrects himself at times.

What I like about Destiny is that he doesn't assume the worst qualities of people who support Trump and doesn't smugly look down on them all as idiots, even though it can seem that way sometimes.

That said, I have no sympathy for the grifting *s like Peterson and Shapiro. I think in Rogan's case he's just that moronic.

 

[Coolangatta]

You're correct about the left in relation to big pharma and taxes etc, but it's also worth noting that what most (including Peterson) don't really acknowledge is that anti-science or science denial is not a left/right thing - all sides do it in different ways. Just in the example of COVID and viruses, Hardcore conservatives or libertarians tend to reject expertise and are more willing to do stuff like inject themselves with bleach to cure COVID because a podcast said so. At the same time, nutty left wingers and progressives will extoll Reiki to solve your "long COVID" disease and insist that the pandemic isn't really over while shaming anyone who doesn't mask-up all day. There's a whole lot more hilarious BS rejection of science both left and right do in relation to plenty of other topics too.

I'll say this, though.

You're right about nutty progressives being a thing, and ones who just automatically assume the worst qualities about people who don't buy into their worldview.

But something like 70% of Republicans think the election was stolen from Trump, which is insanity.

I think it's a helluva lot easier to find deranged conservatives than it is to find deranged liberals that exist outside of California.

 

[ShanDog]

I'll say this, though.

You're right about nutty progressives being a thing, and ones who just automatically assume the worst qualities about people who don't buy into their worldview.

But something like 70% of Republicans think the election was stolen from Trump, which is insanity.

I think it's a helluva lot easier to find deranged conservatives than it is to find deranged liberals that exist outside of California.

You might be right, but I think the amount of crazy on the left is really underappreciated. I'd bet that 70% of liberals would hand-on-heart tell you that unarmed black men are being shot by the police in their thousands each year too. There's a lot of uncritical thinking and political propaganda to go with it all across the political spectrum. Matches made in heaven...

 

[Coolangatta]

You might be right, but I think the amount of crazy on the left is really underappreciated. I'd bet that 70% of liberals would hand-on-heart tell you that unarmed black men are being shot by the police in their thousands each year too. There's a lot of uncritical thinking and political propaganda to go with it all across the political spectrum. Matches made in heaven...

Yeah, it seems to me like social media and the smartphone has done a number on people, especially the youth.

I can't say I'm immune to it, I still lurk through reddit (which can be pretty awful and nauseatingly arrogant) and I'm here on bigfooty which I don't think is nearly as bad. I sometimes look at the youtube comments, too, and yikes...

 

[Bloods86]

You're correct about the left in relation to big pharma and taxes etc, but it's also worth noting that what most (including Peterson) don't really acknowledge is that anti-science or science denial is not a left/right thing - all sides do it in different ways. Just in the example of COVID and viruses, Hardcore conservatives or libertarians tend to reject expertise and are more willing to do stuff like inject themselves with bleach to cure COVID because a podcast said so. At the same time, nutty left wingers and progressives will extoll Reiki to solve your "long COVID" disease and insist that the pandemic isn't really over while shaming anyone who doesn't mask-up all day. There's a whole lot more hilarious BS rejection of science both left and right do in relation to plenty of other topics too.

Yes, there's always been a "hippie" element of the left, that hasn't changed. I doubt there's much overlap between this hippie element (those who might extol Reiki for anything) and those that admonish people about masks though. In any case, JP makes the element of "the left" that might have had skepticism over vaccines sound larger than it ever was, as if a large chunk of it was anti-vaccine, but fell in line with Big Pharma for some reason over Covid vaccines.

I think there's more examples/types of "science denial", and more widespread, on the right than the left, but yes it exists everywhere.

 

[mcnulty]

You might be right, but I think the amount of crazy on the left is really underappreciated. I'd bet that 70% of liberals would hand-on-heart tell you that unarmed black men are being shot by the police in their thousands each year too. There's a lot of uncritical thinking and political propaganda to go with it all across the political spectrum. Matches made in heaven...

Some of this stuff is actually being taken on board in corporations and institutions of learning in America in the form of DEI seminars, and is facing the predictable backlash. The lunatic fringes on both sides are the greasy wheels. It’s depressing.

 

[ShanDog]

Yes, there's always been a "hippie" element of the left, that hasn't changed. I doubt there's much overlap between this hippie element (those who might extol Reiki for anything) and those that admonish people about masks though. In any case, JP makes the element of "the left" that might have had skepticism over vaccines sound larger than it ever was, as if a large chunk of it was anti-vaccine, but fell in line with Big Pharma for some reason over Covid vaccines.

I think there's more examples/types of "science denial", and more widespread, on the right than the left, but yes it exists everywhere.

I think there's a very vocal bubble of lefties who don't like or trust vaccines. Same sort of people who can't let go of the debunked idea that vaccines cause autism, or who get scared about the nasty sounding chemicals in them (dihydrogen monoxide - deadly stuff that kills thousands per year!!!). Those sort of people are predominantly on the "wellness left", and there's plenty of others who hate vaccines for different reasons on the right, but any distinction one might try to draw based on numbers is really a moot point IMO. There's plenty enough of both to go around for any claim that paints one side as anti-science and not the other as silly.

 

[Bloods86]

Nah, Destiny is very firmly in the team Biden camp, he has said so numerous times and stated his case for a second term of old Joe's admin.

Yes, he's not as left as the left would hope, but he relentlessly attacks MAGA bullshit in a way that fake centrist MAGA ass kissing grifters like Tim Pool and Russell Brand would never dream of.

When he was talking recently to Chris Williamson he had to stop himself a few times from what he felt like was bullying of conservatives when he was pointing out their insane bullshit.

He just doesn't want to come across as biased and perhaps overcorrects himself at times.

What I like about Destiny is that he doesn't assume the worst qualities of people who support Trump and doesn't smugly look down on them all as idiots, even though it can seem that way sometimes.

That said, I have no sympathy for the grifting *s like Peterson and Shapiro. I think in Rogan's case he's just that moronic.

Yeah, Destiny himself says he's a liberal, centre-left, a capitalist. Pro-Israel (at least more defensive of Israel's actions than many on the left would agree with, myself included), more conservative on law/order (with limits, although he does fly off the cuff sometimes as noted). But then reasonably progressive (again, can go off the cuff about particular instances) on other things like education, social security, trans rights, industrial relations.

He's very good on Covid and it's handling (as evidenced in this JP convo), Biden's record vs Trump, Trump's anti-democratic bent, support for Ukraine etc.

But anyway, not the Destiny thread so I'll stop.