Toast Josh Fraser

[half_back_flank]

Gone Critical is entitled to his opinion but my reading of the interview remains exactly the same. The fact that Josh thanked people at Collingwood but not Malthouse strongly suggests he is not a big fan of MM. As far as our supporters are concerned, let's be frank, they were incredibly critical of him throughout the latter part of his career, sometimes rightfully so, such as the Peter Bell mark incident. There was that famous moment when he cupped a hand to his ear after kicking a goal, as if asking where the boos and jeers are now. Maxwell at the time remarked on the fact that fans had given Fraser a hard time.

He probably isn't, can you blame him?

Saying nothing is better than lying and saying everything is rosy between him and MM.

 

[Markfs]

The funny thing is that not once in his career at Collingwood did he pick himself to be in the team. It was always the match committee who made the choice. It wasnt Fraser's choice that the club didnt try to get another ruckman except for Mckee and other failures. Fraser didnt select them in the draft. In fact, it was the club that selected Fraser in the first instance and talked him up as the number one draftee. I never heard Fraser telling the world that he was going to be a world beater.

Yet so-called Collingwood fans have put the blame on Fraser for the bad decisions and the failures. All he wanted to do play his football. If he wasnt good enough then the club should have sacked him after his first contract.....so why dont people verbally bash the people who persisted with playing Fraser.

And I swear I will throw the keyboard at the wall if I see one more anonymous poster call Fraser gutless...the whole net is full of gutless little wannabees who like to hang shit on those that give it a go..

 

[MarkT2]

Fraser could have been a good 3rd tallforwarrd and relief ruckman. Hardly the return you want from a number 1 pick but if you igniore where he was drafted he was servicable and but for a knee problem he could have been very handy to late into his career. The real problem with Fraser was how Collingwood/Malthouse used him. He was a pretty ordinary ruckman.

And for the record he was as soundly beaten in the 2003 as anyone. He did battle manfully but his opponent was the single biggest influence on the way the game was played and therefore the result.

 

[jonbe54]

Absolute and utter WORD mark.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

And for the record he was as soundly beaten in the 2003 as anyone. He did battle manfully but his opponent was the single biggest influence on the way the game was played and therefore the result.

He may have been beaten but was still named our best player in the 2003 GF. Keating was too big and strong.

 

[noideaatall]

its all been said. exceptional talent, great courage to put his body on the line so well in those early years. poorly developed by collingwood. deserves a focus on the positives. hope all goes well for him in the future.

for the tossers that can only see the negatives, he played 200 games for the pies! If those weren't deserved then what does that say about: the other players during his time, about the selection committee and our drafting? Surely on his retirement we can celebrate his achievements, not focus on his failure to meet expectations. Can't question him for being bitter after reading this thread, some people have mistaken the term supporter for whinger.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

He probably isn't, can you blame him?

Saying nothing is better than lying and saying everything is rosy between him and MM.

Perhaps in my earlier comments, maybe I should have more clearly stated that I am a Fraser fan. I saw him play his first games and know that he could have been a better player in the latter half of his career had the battering in the ruck and injuries not slowed and crippled him as a player. I remember in his first year, Bruce McAvaney saying 'I think I've just seen the best player ever!' Perhaps a bit premature there , Bruce, but Fraser was fast and courageous in his early years, and he gave the impression he could be anything.

I don't blame Josh if he did see himself as a ruckman in the end, and if he didn't want to play second fiddle to Jolly. His speed and agility were shadows of their former worth to his game, but as a number one draft pick, being Jolly's sidekick would not have been easy, and playing forward without the benefit of his greatest weapons, would not have suited his style.

 

[Yonchi]

its all been said. exceptional talent, great courage to put his body on the line so well in those early years. poorly developed by collingwood. deserves a focus on the positives. hope all goes well for him in the future.

for the tossers that can only see the negatives, he played 200 games for the pies! If those weren't deserved then what does that say about: the other players during his time, about the selection committee and our drafting? Surely on his retirement we can celebrate his achievements, not focus on his failure to meet expectations. Can't question him for being bitter after reading this thread, some people have mistaken the term supporter for whinger.

Just because I vent my frustration at Fraser does not mean that I'm not a fan. Seeing all of his senior games is a given. The reason for the frustration is because his potential was enormous. Maybe it wasn't entirely his fault. Maybe there are many others to blame. It doesn't matter.

What if Nathan Buckley had only ever achieved as much as Brodie Holland on the field? Wouldn't you call that a shame and a waste?
What if Dean Cox had only ever achieved what Josh Fraser achieved on the field?
Fraser belonged in that bracket with his potential

 

[noideaatall]

Just because I vent my frustration at Fraser does not mean that I'm not a fan. Seeing all of his senior games is a given. The reason for the frustration is because his potential was enormous. Maybe it wasn't entirely his fault. Maybe there are many others to blame. It doesn't matter.

What if Nathan Buckley had only ever achieved as much as Brodie Holland on the field? Wouldn't you call that a shame and a waste?
What if Dean Cox had only ever achieved what Josh Fraser achieved on the field?
Fraser belonged in that bracket with his potential

am i right in reading your post as saying: I am frustrated because Josh did not reach his potential (as I saw it)and doesn't matter why he didn't reach it? Why doesn't it matter?

I appreciate you are not simply venting on Josh as some here have.

200+ AFL games is not a failure. It appears he didn't reach the heights he could have but I suggest the reasons were not simply to do factors he had the ability to control but mainly things that happened to him, particularly his development. If we don't take that into account when assessing Josh's career then why isn't Nathan Buckley's career viewed as a failure since he never took home a gf.

Seems to me most of the negative posts on this thread have been about how Josh failed to deliver on what the poster expected. All about the poster, bugger all reasonable assessment of Josh. We (supporters) are a pretty pathetic bunch. When our team wins or an individual fires, we love it, we crow about it and own the glory like as if we personally had contributed in some way. When things go the other way we blame like crazy. Josh deserves better than this

 

[Thommo 42]

At his best he was very good, he always stood up and played great when up against Cox in the Perth games. But at the other end he was pathetically weak, getting outmarked by Bell was just laughable. I remember his game against the Dees in 2010 and just wished he would **** off.

I reckon the turning point for most pies supporters towards Fraser was the 2007 final series, when we wouldn't put his hand up to play in that prelim stating that he wasn't right to go. losing by less than a kick, with Ottens just dominating, i always wonder what would have happened if Fraser played.

I've always found this attitude and double standard very intriguing.

Presti puts his hand up and says he isn't right and is a hero, Fraser puts his hand up and says he isn't right and is accused of being gutless and weak.

 

[Yonchi]

am i right in reading your post as saying: I am frustrated because Josh did not reach his potential (as I saw it)and doesn't matter why he didn't reach it? Why doesn't it matter?

I appreciate you are not simply venting on Josh as some here have.

200+ AFL games is not a failure. It appears he didn't reach the heights he could have but I suggest the reasons were not simply to do factors he had the ability to control but mainly things that happened to him, particularly his development. If we don't take that into account when assessing Josh's career then why isn't Nathan Buckley's career viewed as a failure since he never took home a gf.

Seems to me most of the negative posts on this thread have been about how Josh failed to deliver on what the poster expected. All about the poster, bugger all reasonable assessment of Josh. We (supporters) are a pretty pathetic bunch. When our team wins or an individual fires, we love it, we crow about it and own the glory like as if we personally had contributed in some way. When things go the other way we blame like crazy. Josh deserves better than this

Perhaps any public figure deserves better than to have a harsh assessment of their career by a faceless person like myself. While not a recognised expert in the wider media I have seen enough footy over the journey to have coherent and sensible reasons for being disappointed with Josh's career. Durability to play 200 games is a worthy commitment though irrelevant when my frustration is that he could have been a far better player.

And of course, I never called Josh a failure. I think it would be stretching the definition a little too broadly to consider players, whether they achieved their potential or not, to be a failure for not winning premierships.

 

[PieLebo87]

Ow the irony of it all, Josh Fraser, at 27-28 right now, would be the perfect second ruckman/Leigh Brown for us, playing mainly in the forward line, and pinch-hitting the ruck.

 

[RuFiO]

I'll never forget that moment he got out marked by Peter Bell.
Gonna miss him.
If only we didn't run him into the ground.

 

[Go_Brad_Dick]

I always liked Josh and thought he was hard done by in the end.
He wasnt soft his body was just shot.
And he was a good guy, much loved at the club.
He was a major part of Collingwoods revival in early 2000s that took us to two grand finals..