News Justin Reid Departs

[n4sir]

awful to begin with, did some good work in the past few years, even with some rolled gold that fell in his lap

has it been said what he's doing at the AFL?

That's my take... the first couple of years were pretty rough (deserving of a "Sack Reid" avatar), but after that he's been damn good as he's grown into the role.

This will be a loss to the club... and I never thought I would say that after his first 12 months. Being poached by AFL House is a pretty good addition to his CV.

 

[32year crow]

Just thinking out loud and might be totally off the mark BUT does anyone think the failed NWM deal have had any influence on Reid leaving?

 

[Daniel6]

Just thinking out loud and might be totally off the mark BUT does anyone think the failed NWM deal have had any influence on Reid leaving?

Na, 10 years at the one club is a long time. I feel he moved on as he was ready for a new challenge

 

[1970crow]

That's my take... the first couple of years were pretty rough (deserving of a "Sack Reid" avatar), but after that he's been damn good as he's grown into the role.

This will be a loss to the club... and I never thought I would say that after his first 12 months. Being poached by AFL House is a pretty good addition to his CV.

I think the role list managers play in building a list is overstated. Committees make the decisions, the list manager is the instrument that implements them. Negotiating skills matter and reckon he was top end there, but the profits here and there aren’t a major factor in the quality and makeup of the list that is built over time.

 

[1970crow]

Just thinking out loud and might be totally off the mark BUT does anyone think the failed NWM deal have had any influence on Reid leaving?

No, we never had the picks and he only ever wanted Port. Nothing JR could do to change that unless the LM Committee decided to force out a top end player or 2.

 

[Tex Danger]

Just thinking out loud and might be totally off the mark BUT does anyone think the failed NWM deal have had any influence on Reid leaving?

This has clearly been on the cards a while

He was linked strongly to a high role at i think Collingwood? recently.

He’s obviously wanted to advance his career after a long stint in this role and use that as a launchpad to bigger things

 

[Fud#3]

I think the role list managers play in building a list is overstated. Committees make the decisions, the list manager is the instrument that implements them. Negotiating skills matter and reckon he was top end there, but the profits here and there aren’t a major factor in the quality and makeup of the list that is built over time.

Any idea who is on our LM committee the last few years?
Reid
Nicks
Roo
Kelly
Hamish

Seem to have done a great collective job.

 

[DJ75]

Reid started really poorly - although much of that might have been due to Fagan.

Since then he seems to have really settled into the role. He was always tough but fair in his negotiations. He didn't try to screw clubs over and miss out like Dodoro always did, but he also didn't bend over immediately like we used to.
He found a good balance.

Yes I disagreed with some of his longer contracts for ageing players, but again some of this might have been directed from above (the old Crows 'reward them later' plan). Ultimately, while a few players went on one or two seasons too long, it didn't impact us too much. Meanwhile the players we did move on and trade during his time have largely proven it to be the correct decision.

I'd say he gets a B+/A- type of score.

 

[1970crow]

Any idea who is on our LM committee the last few years?
Reid
Nicks
Roo
Kelly
Hamish

Seem to have done a great collective job.

CEO and CFO have been on there in the past too.

 

[eddiespocket]

Ben Williams would be a good get, probably wouldn’t happen though with his agency interests

 

[FR0GGY]

Ben Williams would be a good get, probably wouldn’t happen though with his agency interests

Reid was a player manger when he got the job was he not? Or does Williams have his own player agency?

 

[Coopers]

No, we never had the picks and he only ever wanted Port. Nothing JR could do to change that unless the LM Committee decided to force out a top end player or 2.

Sure, but he's got to be the loudest voice on that committee. It's his job.

 

[1970crow]

Sure, but he's got to be the loudest voice on that committee. It's his job.

I don’t agree with that. The loudest voice should be the coach who designs the strategy and also the talent identification expert. Then others need to temper the coach’s obvious short term focus. James Gallagher was straight out of banking when he took on saints LM role. His job isn’t to be expert in everything, what he brings is high end negotiation skill and player value knowledge. He’s the loudest voice in his area of expertise, but not necessarily the loudest overall.

 

[Daniel6]

I don’t agree with that. The loudest voice should be the coach who designs the strategy and also the talent identification expert. Then others need to temper the coach’s obvious short term focus. James Gallagher was straight out of banking when he took on saints LM role. His job isn’t to be expert in everything, what he brings is high end negotiation skill and player value knowledge. He’s the loudest voice in his area of expertise, but not necessarily the loudest overall.

I disagree with you on this. I feel it’s important to have an independent person to make those list management decision. Having a separate list manager can take the emotion out of contacts and delisting.

I don’t think a senior coach should make those decisions as he has to build interpersonal with the players and delisting could put a strain on that.

 

[Scorpus]

I disagree with you on this. I feel it’s important to have an independent person to make those list management decision. Having a separate list manager can take the emotion out of contacts and delisting.

I don’t think a senior coach should make those decisions as he has to build interpersonal with the players and delisting could put a strain on that.

The coach should be best placed to have insights on how the game is currently being played and will be played in the future. That would inform the sorts of players that need to be acquired, retained or delisted.

There is no way a list manager would be overriding the coach on things like whether a best 22 player should be re-contracted.

The list manager is a support role for the people in charge of the club and gameplan. Their job is to know which players are available to strengthen that plan, what their cost is, and to execute those deals. They should know the strengths and weaknesses of players so they know who to target, but they shouldn't be deciding the make-up of the squad

 

[Daniel6]

The coach should be best placed to have insights on how the game is currently being played and will be played in the future. That would inform the sorts of players that need to be acquired, retained or delisted.

There is no way a list manager would be overriding the coach on things like whether a best 22 player should be re-contracted.

The list manager is a support role for the people in charge of the club and gameplan. Their job is to know which players are available to strengthen that plan, what their cost is, and to execute those deals. They should know the strengths and weaknesses of players so they know who to target, but they shouldn't be deciding the make-up of the squad

The list manager makes that decision. Not the coach.

The final say goes to the list manager and for the draft the recruitment manager.

 

[Jarman3]

Has done really well since from Dawson onwards. Since then the only negative is arguably the lack of genuine high end mid traded in, but this is a bit unfair as those types of players it's far easier said than done. Our midfield situation is more on our drafting than trading.

Does trading in Rankine count as a high end mid? Obviously was a small forward earlier, but I would imagine developing his midfield game would have been on the agenda from the start.

 

[WeeBlake]

The list manager makes that decision. Not the coach.

The final say goes to the list manager

If you are right, that’s crazy. But I don’t think you’re right. At least, not for a list manager like Reid.

Reid is an ex-player manager. His experience is in contract and trade negotiations, not in talent assessment or football strategy. His job is to execute the plans set by the football people. Like - we need to improve our midfield/ruck/kpd/whatever depth, go find us some trade options. And then, ok, we want player x, go get us the best deal you can. Or - player A is our highest priority for re-signing, get us the best long-term deal you can get. Or, ok, looks like player Q wants to go home to vic. Get us the best deal you can. Or, we’ve got a second round pick that we do not really want to use, go get us the best deal you can get.

It’s not - should we delist player x or not.

 

[Daniel6]

If you are right, that’s crazy. But I don’t think you’re right. At least, not for a list manager like Reid.

Reid is an ex-player manager. His experience is in contract and trade negotiations, not in talent assessment or football strategy. His job is to execute the plans set by the football people. Like - we need to improve our midfield/ruck/kpd/whatever depth, go find us some trade options. And then, ok, we want player x, go get us the best deal you can. Or - player A is our highest priority for re-signing, get us the best long-term deal you can get. Or, ok, looks like player Q wants to go home to vic. Get us the best deal you can. Or, we’ve got a second round pick that we do not really want to use, go get us the best deal you can get.

It’s not - should we delist player x or not.

I think we can agree to disagree and metaphorically walk away with our own thoughts.

 

[Scorpus]

The list manager makes that decision. Not the coach.

The final say goes to the list manager and for the draft the recruitment manager.

So you reckon, for example, that when we got rid of Bryce Gibbs that was a list management decision and not a coaching decision?

 

[Daniel6]

So you reckon, for example, that when we got rid of Bryce Gibbs that was a list management decision and not a coaching decision?

Well, the list management committee ultimately decided on who would get delisted, and the chairman of that committee would be the final say.

And I believe Justin Reid would be the chairman of that committee. So, in consultation with the committee, he would make that decision.

 

[GreyCrow]

The list manager makes that decision. Not the coach.

The final say goes to the list manager and for the draft the recruitment manager.

It's an interesting discussion point.

I agree about taking the emotion out of it but I do think balance is required

US football have General Managers who oversee the whole football philosophy - and sometimes the coach and GM are the same person.

As noted the coach will live or die on the players he elects to keep.

But I also don't like the " get the deal done " mantra pushed from above at times

I would prefer a group approach where everyone decides if Cook gets another year or is there someone better. Thats the list manager job to know who is available at a comparable price and ability

 

[Mutineer]

If you are right, that’s crazy. But I don’t think you’re right. At least, not for a list manager like Reid.

Reid is an ex-player manager. His experience is in contract and trade negotiations, not in talent assessment or football strategy. His job is to execute the plans set by the football people. Like - we need to improve our midfield/ruck/kpd/whatever depth, go find us some trade options. And then, ok, we want player x, go get us the best deal you can. Or - player A is our highest priority for re-signing, get us the best long-term deal you can get. Or, ok, looks like player Q wants to go home to vic. Get us the best deal you can. Or, we’ve got a second round pick that we do not really want to use, go get us the best deal you can get.

It’s not - should we delist player x or not.

Tend to disagree here, Reid before he was our list manager he was a well established player manager and talent identification is a big part of that, he'd have scouted hundreds of draftees in that process before they signed with him. It's a very aggressive market with plenty of opposition player managers seeking to get the players to sign with them. You can bet he had plenty of input into the draftees Hamish and his crew identified talent wise and recruited.

 

[Daniel6]

It's an interesting discussion point.

I agree about taking the emotion out of it but I do think balance is required

US football have General Managers who oversee the whole football philosophy - and sometimes the coach and GM are the same person.

As noted the coach will live or die on the players he elects to keep.

But I also don't like the " get the deal done " mantra pushed from above at times

I would prefer a group approach where everyone decides if Cook gets another year or is there someone better. Thats the list manager job to know who is available at a comparable price and ability

As I just said above, I think it’s a committee decision with the final say going to the list manager.

 

[Scorpus]

It's an interesting discussion point.

I agree about taking the emotion out of it but I do think balance is required

US football have General Managers who oversee the whole football philosophy - and sometimes the coach and GM are the same person.

As noted the coach will live or die on the players he elects to keep.

But I also don't like the " get the deal done " mantra pushed from above at times

I would prefer a group approach where everyone decides if Cook gets another year or is there someone better. Thats the list manager job to know who is available at a comparable price and ability

Most list management decisions are straightforward. Retain the best 22 players, delist those who never get games, bring in talent.

It's around the fringes where things get interesting.

I don't think Reid is unilaterally making "unemotional" calls to delist players that Nicks wants to keep and keep playing. Similarly, he is not retaining players that Nicks wants gone.

Even the list building, future looking aspect is relatively simple and in line with the coach. Reid retained the top picks that we were playing, he also retained top picks we weren't playing yet, and largely delisted players that we didn't play at all.

There are only a couple of interesting decisions where Reid might have had the opportunity to step out of line with the coach. I look at a guy like Doedee who was in Nicks' best 22 until we let him walk as a free agent. Reid would have presented the case of the value we would have gotten in return for Doedee, but ultimately if Nicks wanted to keep him because he saw Doedee as more valuable than the end of first round pick we got, we would have paid him to stay.

You just don't see Reid having come in and going "yeah so that guy who played all season, he's gone." The only example I could point to is James Rowe, who we immediately replaced with Izak Rankine. We have not been aggressive at replacing established players under Nicks.

Most of the player movement that Reid has done coincided with the coaching change. When we fired Pyke in 2019 we moved on guys like Jenkins, Betts and Keath, and then when Nicks arrived we moved on players he didn't rate and didn't play like B. Crouch, Atkins and Gibbs.

There would be much stronger evidence for Reid calling the shots if he was trading out contracted best 22 players for value and flipping them for upgrades or even longer term plays like early draft picks. On the evidence it seems like he has largely chosen to retain the team Nicks has played.