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Fact Ken Farmer's career

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Adelaide Hawk said:
Football historians are accepting that his tally stands at 1,417 goals, not 1,419. Apparently Ken's own scrapbooks indicate this is the case.
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Having now looked into this statistic, I believe it to be correct. The error comes from the 1940 season, with Farmer actually totalling 123 goals instead of 125. The weekly tallies as printed in the Adelaide Advertiser confirm this.
 
In his SANFL career, Farmer played in 119 wins, 99 losses and 6 draws. He kicked 893 goals in his 119 winning games (averaging 7.50 per game), 487 in his 99 losing games (4.91 avge) and 37 in his 6 draws (6.16 avge).
 
worbod said:
Thanks for those additions. It would be interesting to see who the WAFL leaders are in this respect.
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Not claiming this list as definitive at the moment, but here's what I could muster (cheers for the formatting):

Goals Games WAFL leader (fewest games needed)
50 .. ?? .. . 8 Jason Heatley (S)
100 . 25 .. .17 George Doig (EF)
200 . 39 . .334 George Doig (EF)
300 . 55 . . 47 George Doig (EF)
400 . 73 . . 67 George Doig (EF)
500 . 88 . . 86 George Doig (EF)
600 .104 . .103 George Doig (EF)
700 .118 . .125 George Doig (EF)
800 .131 . .145 George Doig (EF)
900 .146 . .163 George Doig (EF)
1000 160 . .183 George Doig (EF)
1100 174 . .206 Ted Tyson (WP)
1200 190 . .244 Austin Robertson, Jr (S)
1300 202 . .
1400 221

(FWIW, he gets a massively bad rap outside of WA for his VFL and SANFL career, but Warren Ralph is second-fastest to 50, third fastest to 100, and second fastest to 200, 300, 400 and equal second fastest to 500 goals in WAFL history.)
 

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You're welcome for the formatting. It looks good to have the WAFL stats alongside Farmer's achievements.

In relation to my post at the top of the page, Farmer's biography, The Farmer Files, written by Paul Depasquale (2002) also backs up the figure of 1,417 goals (pages 206 and 220). Page 220 especially gives a good explanation:

"After his retirement, Farmer's total was usually given as 1418, which later became 1419. The discrepancy of two goals stems from a mistake in addition on Farmer's part as to his 1940 total: the scrapbooks show that, while he recorded the correct number of goals per match for that year, he added them up to 125, not 123. The Complete Book of SANFL Records: 1990 Edition, compiled by Dion Hayman, reflects the confusion by giving 123 on the North Adelaide Honour Board (p 16) and 125 in the list of Leading Goalkickers (p 111)."

So perhaps the great man himself is to blame for the confusion.
 
worbod said:
You're welcome for the formatting. It looks good to have the WAFL stats alongside Farmer's achievements.

In relation to my post at the top of the page, Farmer's biography, The Farmer Files, written by Paul Depasquale (2002) also backs up the figure of 1,417 goals (pages 206 and 220). Page 220 especially gives a good explanation:

"After his retirement, Farmer's total was usually given as 1418, which later became 1419. The discrepancy of two goals stems from a mistake in addition on Farmer's part as to his 1940 total: the scrapbooks show that, while he recorded the correct number of goals per match for that year, he added them up to 125, not 123. The Complete Book of SANFL Records: 1990 Edition, compiled by Dion Hayman, reflects the confusion by giving 123 on the North Adelaide Honour Board (p 16) and 125 in the list of Leading Goalkickers (p 111)."

So perhaps the great man himself is to blame for the confusion.
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There's a bunch of confusion with WAFL records as well. For years, Ted Tyson was listed as having kicked 1208 goals (actually 1197), Austin Robertson 1278 (1211), George Doig 1111 (1097), John Gerovich 721 (742). Just to throw a spanner in the works, my tallies for these guys (without double-checking things) differ (1195 for Tyson, 1213 for Robertson, 1095 for Doig and 743 for Gerovich).

Also, do you think we should ask a mod to see if we can move threads like these ones to the Stats board? I'm thinking that's a better place to have them.
 
I personally would have no issue with a move to the Stats board. I presume you're referring to threads relating to players' careers records such as others I have done about Malcolm Blight and Peter McKenna, and the one you compiled about Bernie Naylor.

In relation to confusion with WAFL goalkicking records, wasn't this because interstate goals were added on to club totals?
 
In some cases, probably. It doesn't add up for others though.

A lot of the older figures came from the clubs themselves, from yearbooks and such. Most of the older players may have had warm-up or tour goals included as well.

There's been some substantial revision in the past few years though to get the tallies correct. Feel sorry for Ted Tyson though - the revision took him under the 1200-goal barrier (and Doig under 1100).
 
Highest percentage of team goals kicked by Farmer


Percent Game . . . . .Opponent . Farmer Nth Adel
100.00 Round 1, 1940 .Glenelg . . . 9 . . 9
.88.46 Round 12, 1940 West Torrens 23 . .26
.83.33 Round 16, 1930 Sth Adelaide 15 . .18
.77.77 Round 3, 1938 .Norwood . . . 7 . . 9
.75.00 Round 7, 1931 .Sth Adelaide .9 . .12
.75.00 Round 8, 1938 .West Torrens .9 . .12
.72.22 Round 17, 1935 Sturt . . . .13 . .18
.71.42 Round 9, 1937 .West Torrens 10 . .14
.70.58 Round 6, 1932 Port Adelaide 12 . .17
.70.00 Round 16, 1931 Norwood . . . 7 . .10
.70.00 Round 10, 1938 Norwood . . . 7 . .10
.70.00 Round 1, 1941 .Glenelg . . . 7 . .10
 
Percentage of North Adelaide's goals kicked by Farmer each season.


Season Farmer Nth Adel Farmer % . Nth Adelaide's position
1929 . .62 . . . 185 . 33.51 . . . 5th
1930 . 105 . . . 222 . 47.29 . . . 1st
1931 . 126 . . . 290 . 43.44 . . . 1st
1932 . 102 . . . 242 . 42.14 . . . 2nd
1933 . 112 . . . 257 . 43.57 . . . 4th
1934 . 106 . . . 261 . 40.61 . . . 5th
1935 . 128 . . . 265 . 48.30 . . . 6th
1936 . 134 . . . 321 . 41.74 . . . 3rd
1937 . 108 . . . 243 . 44.44 . . . 5th
1938 . 112 . . . 219 . 51.14 . . . 5th
1939 . 113 . . . 268 . 42.16 . . . 5th
1940 . 123 . . . 251 . 49.00 . . . 6th
1941 . .86 . . . 225 . 38.22 . . . 7th
TOTAL 1417 . . .3249 . 43.61 . . . (8 team competition)

North Adelaide's seasonal goals totals do not include any games where Farmer did not play.
 
Games required to reach 50 and 100 goals each season


Season 50 100
1929 . 14
1930 . 10 16
1931 . .7 16
1932 . .7 17
1933 . .9 16
1934 . .9 16
1935 . .7 15
1936 . .8 15
1937 . .8 16
1938 . .7 14
1939 . .7 16
1940 . .7 14
1941 . 11
 
The highest figure Ken Farmer's goalkicking average climbed to was 6.45 after 204 games and 1317 goals. He reached this peak after kicking 11 goals in round 14, 1940, two days after his 30th birthday.
 
worbod said:
Having now looked into this statistic, I believe it to be correct. The error comes from the 1940 season, with Farmer actually totalling 123 goals instead of 125. The weekly tallies as printed in the Adelaide Advertiser confirm this.
Click to expand...
Farmer's playing career ended when he went into the wartime RAAF. He took over the reins of coach for North Adelaide for four seasons from 1949, winning the premiership twice with a strong mark.
 

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On his home ground (Prospect Oval), Farmer kicked 637 goals from 92 games at an average of 6.92. His most prolific season at Prospect was 1940, his second last in the SANFL, in which he kicked 80 goals from 9 games. This included his personal record of 23 goals.

In four successive games at Prospect, Farmer once kicked 51 goals. He kicked 11, 11 and 13 in his final three games there in 1934 and then 16 in his first game there in 1935.
 
Following a recent request for such information in the WAFL Stats thread, here is Ken Farmer round by round.




| 1929 | 1930 | 1931 | 1932 | 1933 | 1934 | 1935 | 1936 | 1937 | 1938 | 1939 | 1940 | 1941 | TOTALS
\ Rd 1 |4|4|5|10|3|3|12|1|8|6|10|9|7| 82
\ Rd 2 |2|4|5|9|9|4|16|5|7|10|14|8|4| 97
\ Rd 3 |6|4|8|7|2|4|4|4|1|7|8|3|5| 63
\ Rd 4 |4|5|7|3|-|5|4|6|3|11|4|9|7| 68
\ Rd 5 |4|5|9|7|3|8|9|10|-|9|8|8|3| 83
\ Rd 6 |1|6|7|12|4|13|2|9|7|6|5|3|5| 80
\ Rd 7 |4|3|9|2|6|7|3|7|5|3|8|11|2| 70
\ Rd 8 |2|9|5|9|9|3|5|11|12|9|8|4|7| 93
\ Rd 9 |4|4|5|8|12|5|6|10|10|13|6|5|5| 93
\ Rd 10 |4|6|4|10|8|3|9|6|12|7|8|8|3| 88
\ Rd 11 |2|3|10|0|2|4|5|6|4|3|2|2|5| 48
\ Rd 12 |5|4|3|-|2|-|5|7|3|-|3|23|6| 61
\ Rd 13 |6|11|9|2|4|6|10|8|8|2|5|5|6| 82
\ Rd 14 |5|8|10|2|16|11|5|8|4|8|4|11|4| 96
\ Rd 15 |2|10|1|-|11|6|8|9|6|6|4|3|3| 69
\ Rd 16 |4|15|7|3|6|11|12|5|8|3|5|8|7| 94
\ Rd 17 |3|-|5|4|7|13|13|15|10|9|11|3|7| 100
\ 1SF |-|-|5|-|4|-|-|4|-|-|-|-|-| 17
\ 2SF |-|-|-|9|4**|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| 9
\ PF |-|-|6|-|-|-|-|3|-|-|-|-|-| 9
\ GF |-|4|6|5|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| 15
\ TOTALS | 62 | 105 | 126 | 102 | 112 | 106 | 128 | 134 | 108 | 112 | 113 | 123 | 86 | 1417

** 1st semi replay


Farmer's First Semi total thus adds up to 17 as I have included the 4 goals from the 1933 1st semi replay.
 
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worbod said:
Following a recent request for such information in the WAFL Stats thread, here is Ken Farmer round by round.




| 1929 | 1930 | 1931 | 1932 | 1933 | 1934 | 1935 | 1936 | 1937 | 1938 | 1939 | 1940 | 1941 | TOTALS
\Rd 1|4|4|5|10|3|3|12|1|8|6|10|9|7|82 \Rd 2|2|4|5|9|9|4|16|5|7|10|14|8|4|97 \Rd 3|6|4|8|7|2|4|4|4|1|7|8|3|5|63 \Rd 4|4|5|7|3|-|5|4|6|3|11|4|9|7|68 \Rd 5|4|5|9|7|3|8|9|10|-|9|8|8|3|83 \Rd 6|1|6|7|12|4|13|2|9|7|6|5|3|5|80 \Rd 7|4|3|9|2|6|7|3|7|5|3|8|11|2|70 \Rd 8|2|9|5|9|9|3|5|11|12|9|8|4|7|93 \Rd 9|4|4|5|8|12|5|6|10|10|13|6|5|5|93 \Rd 10|4|6|4|10|8|3|9|6|12|7|8|8|3|88 \Rd 11|2|3|10|0|2|4|5|6|4|3|2|2|5|48 \Rd 12|5|4|3|-|2|-|5|7|3|-|3|23|6|61 \Rd 13|6|11|9|2|4|6|10|8|8|2|5|5|6|82 \Rd 14|5|8|10|2|16|11|5|8|4|8|4|11|4|96 \Rd 15|2|10|1|-|11|6|8|9|6|6|4|3|3|69 \Rd 16|4|15|7|3|6|11|12|5|8|3|5|8|7|94 \Rd 17|3|-|5|4|7|13|13|15|10|9|11|3|7|100 \1SF|-|-|5|-|4|-|-|4|-|-|-|-|-|17 \2SF|-|-|-|9|4**|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|9 \PF|-|-|6|-|-|-|-|3|-|-|-|-|-|9 \GF|-|4|6|5|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|15 \TOTALS|62|105|126|102|112|106|128|134|108|112|113|123|86|1417


** 1 semi replay


Farmer's First Semi totals thus add up to 17 as I have included the 4 goals from the 1933 1st semi replay.
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Amazing to think that for Ken, 108 goals is considered a lean tally.
 
Before debuting with North Adelaide, Farmer played for North Adelaide Juniors in 1928, playing 11 games for 47 goals and playing in a premiership team. He was awarded the medal presented to the Best Junior player for the season.
 
worbod said:
Best goalkicking averages in major competitions. (500 goals)


Player . . . . . .Comp .Avge Games Goals
Ken Farmer . . . .SANFL 6.33 224 . 1419
Peter Hudson . . .TFL . 6.24 151 . .943
Peter Neville . . VFA . 5.66 128 . .725
Peter Hudson . . .VFL . 5.63 129 . .727
John Coleman . . .VFL . 5.47 .98 . .537
Jamie Shaw . . . .VFA . 5.44 127 . .692
George Doig . . . WAFL .5.43 202 . 1097
Bruce Schultz . . SANFL 5.39 124 . .669
Mark Fotheringham VFA . 5.33 174 . .928
Bernie Naylor . . WAFL .5.31 194 . 1032
Ted Tyson . . . . WAFL .5.25 228 . 1197
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I can't really talk about non-VFL players, however I would certainly remove VFA players as my understanding is that it has always been inferior to the VFL (at least since 1897).

Of the VFL players, John Coleman is unquestionably the best given the era he played in which was relatively low scoring. If one disregards whether which league was best, it would appear to me that Ken Farmer, John Coleman and George Doig are the best full forward ever.
 
worbod said:
Best goalkicking averages in major competitions. (500 goals)


Player . . . . . .Comp .Avge Games Goals
Ken Farmer . . . .SANFL 6.33 224 . 1419
Peter Hudson . . .TFL . 6.24 151 . .943
Peter Neville . . VFA . 5.66 128 . .725
Peter Hudson . . .VFL . 5.63 129 . .727
John Coleman . . .VFL . 5.47 .98 . .537
Jamie Shaw . . . .VFA . 5.44 127 . .692
George Doig . . . WAFL .5.43 202 . 1097
Bruce Schultz . . SANFL 5.39 124 . .669
Mark Fotheringham VFA . 5.33 174 . .928
Bernie Naylor . . WAFL .5.31 194 . 1032
Ted Tyson . . . . WAFL .5.25 228 . 1197
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I think the other pertinent point is when the above players played the majority of their careers.

Ignoring VFA players, Ken Farmer, George Doig, Bernie Schultz and Ted Tyson played the majority of their careers in the 1930s. John Coleman and Bernie Naylor played during the mid 1940s to mid 1950s. Hudson played during the late 60s and 70s.

Gee the 1930s were the decade of the full forward; throw in Bob Pratt and Gordan Coventry and you have a bonanza of goals. I know that in the 30s, the VFL penalised the last player who touched the ball before it went out of play; this apparently resulted in play being directed through the corridor. Did a similar rule apply on the WAFL and SANFL?

During Coleman's career a player could kick the ball out of bands on the full with impunity. Did the WAFL have a similar rule?
 
frankc said:
I think the other pertinent point is when the above players played the majority of their careers.

Ignoring VFA players, Ken Farmer, George Doig, Bernie Schultz and Ted Tyson played the majority of their careers in the 1930s. John Coleman and Bernie Naylor played during the mid 1940s to mid 1950s. Hudson played during the late 60s and 70s.

Gee the 1930s were the decade of the full forward; throw in Bob Pratt and Gordan Coventry and you have a bonanza of goals. I know that in the 30s, the VFL penalised the last player who touched the ball before it went out of play; this apparently resulted in play being directed through the corridor. Did a similar rule apply on the WAFL and SANFL?
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It sure was a boom time for big goalkickers. In the WAFL, George Doig was the first player to kick 100+ in a season, and that was in 1933. Yet, in the next eight seasons (leading up to WWII), there had been 22 further century seasons, kicked by 7 individuals (Doig, Tyson, Albert Gook, Ted Holdsworth, Bert Chandler, Frank Hopkins and George Moloney). Five separate players booted 100+ in 1937, and another 4 topped the ton in 1938. Remarkable.

frankc said:
During Coleman's career a player could kick the ball out of bands on the full with impunity. Did the WAFL have a similar rule?
Click to expand...

The WAFL only started paying free kicks for out on the full in late 70s, IIRC. Watching the 1979 Grand Final, the commentators mention that it was a new rule.
 
frankc said:
I can't really talk about non-VFL players, however I would certainly remove VFA players as my understanding is that it has always been inferior to the VFL (at least since 1897).
Click to expand...
Actually, the top end of the VFA was fairly decent. Footscray and North Melbourne mostly. They were every bit as good as the VFL up until the ~20s
 

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