Kevin Sheehan on SEN

[IDGAF]

The debate over Cotchin V Morton is all moot if we have already agreed under the table with the Eagles to leave Cotchin to them and take Morton

How do you think we got Mitch so cheaply ?

 

[Bojangles17]

morton is not a kpp, thats the point

he is more your embley/goddard/cornes rather than pavlich/buddy/riewoldt

remind me of the positions that Buddy was playing in his first season...dont go pidgeon holing 17yo, FFS , it's that kind of short sighted approach that has resulted in blunder beyond blunder....ignore Morton and I see another Pavlich haunting us

 

[tony_montana]

Good point you make. Kruezer is a good Ruckman/KPP but I wouldn't say great at either. He plays a tall utility role and dominates at the junior level in both positions, hence his fame. It will be a lot harder to play this dualistic role in the AFL. I'd rather Morton or Cotchin and would be happy with RFC's decision either way.

or

he could fill out grow another inch and become a superstar

lets not try and convince ourselves hes not bluechip, he is


as is morton, masten and cotchin

 

[Richo for PM]

The debate over Cotchin V Morton is all moot if we have already agreed under the table with the Eagles to leave Cotchin to them and take Morton

How do you think we got Mitch so cheaply ?

they gave us mitch so cheaply because they knew he wanted to come to us and could have left for nothing.
they were also happy that we entered the judd trade and offered pick two which ended up giving west coast and extra pick/player (cant remember what was oridinally offered) and gave us him as a thankyou

 

[IDGAF]

they gave us mitch so cheaply because they knew he wanted to come to us and could have left for nothing.
they were also happy that we entered the judd trade and offered pick two which ended up giving west coast and extra pick/player (cant remember what was oridinally offered) and gave us him as a thankyou

it will interesting to see how it plays out ... i have absolutely no doubt there was very heavy collusion between us and West Coast . Lets face it , we got them Kennedy ... it was our leverage that forced Carlton to give him up

I reckon we will take Morton .. i reckon it was agreed to a month ago , but i love a conspiricy theory

 

[Wally Matera]

Agree with them or not, the wise guy armchair experts may be suggesting it for a very good reason. They probably have concerns over wether Morton can play in a Key Post. He is not currently a KPP. He is a tall utility type who may or may not develop into a KPP. Either way he will probably be very good. The other thing is that the best KPP available to us may not be worth the number 2 pick....Rance? Henderson? maybe they are?

From all I have seen and read I still can't make up my own mind.
If I were the recruiters and at the end of the day I still couldn't split them, it would be made up for my by the Extra height of Morton. But if that's the only thing splitting them, then that's a pretty good thing for us (and the weagles/melbourne - depending on who choses the other of the two).

Recruiting is a very very tough game....and like a coin toss even if we picked heads the last 20 times and it came up tails the last 20 times, ie. even if our last 20 picks have been crap, there is still only a 50/50 chance of the next coin toss turning up heads. Of course the better your analysis is the more luck will have...

I understand what you are saying, but l dont necessarily agree with your theory.

For example, assuming that Morton is similar to a Chad Cornes/Andrew Embley type player, l would be extremely nervous about the Richmond coaching staff's ability to be able to nurture and develop a player of that ilk and turn them into a superstar.

Just because Chad Cornes is a superstar for Port, doesnt mean he'd be the same player in a Richmond guernsey. You have to weigh up the risks that come with your coaching skills. A C. Cornes/Embley type player is risky, because they require patience and a strong coach to know where to play them!

Cotchin is a midfielder. No two ways about it. He presents the less risk and by far the easier option for results.

I'd take Cotchin, purely because l dont trust that Wallace, Rawlings, King, and Co. could get the best results from a Morton.

And that's the biggest shame of it all.

 

[TOA.]

You guys say Morton is not a KPP. But by the same token Cotchin isnt a pure midfielder yet either.

 

[Ruanaidh]

or

he could fill out grow another inch and become a superstar

lets not try and convince ourselves hes not bluechip, he is


as is morton, masten and cotchin

Ok....now we're in the land of supposition. I could say that Morton will develop into the leagues best CHB/CHF couldn't I The point is I have seen Kruezer play on several occasions (as well as Morton) and I think he will develop into a good tall utility but no superstar. Seriously, if Carlton overlooks him so should we.

 

[Ruanaidh]

You guys say Morton is not a KPP. But by the same token Cotchin isnt a pure midfielder yet either.

Spot on. He is a HFF, pinch hitting midfielder. We have a truckload of them already.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

Spot on. He is a HFF, pinch hitting midfielder. We have a truckload of them already.

We just traded for the exact player that Cotchin is now.Mitch Morton a HFF who can play in the middle.The question is will the club go for 2 types or go the other way and select a kid who suits Terry,s plan by developing Cale Morton into an attacking chb.

Who knows it might be a choice of Kruezer vs Morton or Kruezer vs Cotchin

 

[Weaver]

You guys say Morton is not a KPP. But by the same token Cotchin isnt a pure midfielder yet either.

Be kind to them TOA. Richmond rarely, if ever, sees a pure midfielder so our frame of reference is skewiff. We have spent a decade recruiting guys like Brown, Pettifer, Newman, Hilton, Torney, Chaffey, Krakouer and a dozen others who are all pockets who can play 5 minutes in the midfield.

That is why we wet ourselves with glee when someone like Foley comes along by accident.

By our standards Cotchin is a genuine midfielder, because he plays 20-30 minutes of a match in the middle.

Sure I would actually like us to start recruiting blokes who play 80 minutes in the midfield in juniors and can rest in a pocket ... but then you end up with guys like Selwood, LeCras, Waters and the makings of a premiership side.

Much easier to convert a centreman into a backpocket than the other way around.

Better to build a team of specilist flankers and pockets and then pray that the magic pixies get the ball to them.

 

[tony_montana]

Ok....now we're in the land of supposition. I could say that Morton will develop into the leagues best CHB/CHF couldn't I The point is I have seen Kruezer play on several occasions (as well as Morton) and I think he will develop into a good tall utility but no superstar. Seriously, if Carlton overlooks him so should we.

I see.... and saying that he wont develop into an a-grader, instead will just be a good solid utility isnt?

All Im saying is that Ive noticed more and more tiger supporters talking Kruezer down these past few weeks, almost as if trying to convince themselves that he wont be that good. No need for that bc if and when he does become a star it will hurt more.

Just an observation

 

[blxx]

Cotchin is a midfielder. No two ways about it.

cmon wal, why does he spend most of his time at HFF then?

by all accounts Cotchin is more in the Gazza model of player, he's a HFF who pinch hits in the middle.

would you call Ablett Jnr a midfielder or HFF?

 

[sante]

it will interesting to see how it plays out ... i have absolutely no doubt there was very heavy collusion between us and West Coast . Lets face it , we got them Kennedy ... it was our leverage that forced Carlton to give him up

I reckon we will take Morton .. i reckon it was agreed to a month ago , but i love a conspiricy theory

We didn't get Mitch cheaply...he hasn't shown anything at AFL level and played 12 games in like 3 years.

cmon wal, why does he spend most of his time at HFF then?

by all accounts Cotchin is more in the Gazza model of player, he's a HFF who pinch hits in the middle.

would you call Ablett Jnr a midfielder or HFF?

Ablett Jnr has become a midfielder and a gun one at that. Cotchin can/will do the same if he works hard.

 

[YellowandBlackBlood]

We cannot lose here. The only thing that can happen is we may not win as much as those teams around us.

If we get:

A. Kreuzer: One of the fastest 199cm young players ever with great staying power and who has more than adequate skills when the ball is below his knees. Good pair of hands. Kicks ok. Reasonable ruck work. Exceptional work ethic.

B. Cotchin: Elite decision maker and unique skills on both sides of his body. Rarely misses a target. Difficult to tackle as he weaves in and out with great agility. Always seems to take the right option.

C. Morton: Elite kick with exceptional endurance. Can hit targets 50 to 60m away. Being 192cm means he will be a difficult midfielder to match up on. As he puts on a bit of beef he may be able to play CHB or CHF (the mobile type). As CHB could become the new general down back with kicking to advantage. As CHF he would be dangerous around goals even when outside 50.


So you see, all have upsides. The trick will be to develop the one we get to his full potential. That's where we have struggled over the years.

 

[IDGAF]

We didn't get Mitch cheaply...he hasn't shown anything at AFL level and played 12 games in like 3 years.

Yes .... would have been so easy for him to bust into that mid-field over the last three years

 

[duckboy]

Be kind to them TOA. Richmond rarely, if ever, sees a pure midfielder so our frame of reference is skewiff. We have spent a decade recruiting guys like Brown, Pettifer, Newman, Hilton, Torney, Chaffey, Krakouer and a dozen others who are all pockets who can play 5 minutes in the midfield.

That is why we wet ourselves with glee when someone like Foley comes along by accident.

By our standards Cotchin is a genuine midfielder, because he plays 20-30 minutes of a match in the middle.

Sure I would actually like us to start recruiting blokes who play 80 minutes in the midfield in juniors and can rest in a pocket ... but then you end up with guys like Selwood, LeCras, Waters and the makings of a premiership side.

Better to build a team of specilist flankers and pockets and then pray that the magic pixies get the ball to them.

Unusually cynical from you Weaver. I normally figure you to be more pragmatic than that. Its a fairly valid point about our midfield stocks though. We haven't had a blue chip midfield in 20 years. Even when we had Knights, Campbell and Daffy up and running we lacked any real presence or mongrel and relied on the Chris Bond, Chris Naish and Ashley Prescott types to do the grunt work. The recruiting people change, the coaching staff change, the board changes but the results are often the same. Does our rabid obsession for the next flag somehow drive our club's recruiters to distraction? Does our lack of success mean we more often select a player that "could" be a "franchise player" over the player that will play 200+ games? Its the only variable that remains the same. Us...

 

[tigerfan1961]

Morton is the right fit. He is a potential 'Chad Cornes' and our priority should be KPP's. Cotchin, mind you will be a great player in a side like Melbourne and Essendon who need to rebuild their midfield.

Sorry but Morton is Not a Cornes type- far from it! Cotchin must be our first pick, followed hopefully by Tayte Pears.

 

[tigerfan1961]

ide be more worried about if carlton take cotchin at 1 and we get kruezer who may be a good player but i dont think is tall enough for a ruckman

Believe me, Kruezer is an absolute gun and will likely go at numero uno. In a previous post, I said ther was a chance Carlscum would take Cotchin, but have since been told this is now unlikely, although a 50/50 split in the powerbrokers is still in vogue.

 

[Richo for PM]

Believe me, Kruezer is an absolute gun and will likely go at numero uno. In a previous post, I said ther was a chance Carlscum would take Cotchin, but have since been told this is now unlikely, although a 50/50 split in the powerbrokers is still in vogue.

where did ya hear that?

 

[tigerfan1961]

where did ya hear that?

My business partner, who knows parties involved at Carlton, why?

 

[Richo for PM]

My business partner, who knows parties involved at Carlton, why?

just interested if there was any truth in it

 

[GhostofJimJess]

Unusually cynical from you Weaver. I normally figure you to be more pragmatic than that. Its a fairly valid point about our midfield stocks though. We haven't had a blue chip midfield in 20 years. Even when we had Knights, Campbell and Daffy up and running we lacked any real presence or mongrel and relied on the Chris Bond, Chris Naish and Ashley Prescott types to do the grunt work. The recruiting people change, the coaching staff change, the board changes but the results are often the same. Does our rabid obsession for the next flag somehow drive our club's recruiters to distraction? Does our lack of success mean we more often select a player that "could" be a "franchise player" over the player that will play 200+ games? Its the only variable that remains the same. Us...

Knights and Campbell were definitely elites. Not quite in the Voss or Buckley class, but at least as good as Bartel, Hodge, Lappin and Hayes, all of whom I regard as "elites".

 

[Weaver]

Knights and Campbell were definitely elites. Not quite in the Voss or Buckley class, but at least as good as Bartel, Hodge, Lappin and Hayes, all of whom I regard as "elites".

Sure but Knights came through the under-19s and Campbell was drafted pre-1990.

We have drafted a lot of midfielders since but very few who are geunine on-ballers. Lots of flankers, pockets and wingers who can take a turn in the middle.

So manyof the blokes we do use in the middle from Bond through Johnson to Foley are imports or through a state league.

We have struggled to draft blokes who can start in the centre square.

 

[richoatthedisco]

Sure but Knights came through the under-19s and Campbell was drafted pre-1990.

We have drafted a lot of midfielders since but very few who are geunine on-ballers. Lots of flankers, pockets and wingers who can take a turn in the middle.

So manyof the blokes we do use in the middle from Bond through Johnson to Foley are imports or through a state league.

We have struggled to draft blokes who can start in the centre square.

Coughlan.

(tumbleweed rolls by...)


Foley.