Kofi on the skids ...

[GuruJane]

http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/05/top12.htm

My prediction: W and new US admin will use the revelations coming out on the Oil for Food scandal to orchestrate the removal of Kofi Annan and then embark on a full scale reformation of UN.

How? Firstly, the UN is absolutely reliant on US bankrolling it to survive. Secondly W has now unparelleled authority because he does not have to face an election in 4 years time. Thirdly, because W is t-o-u-g-h and so is Cheney, Rumsfield and Condi Rice.

 

[dan warna]

http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/05/top12.htm

My prediction: W and new US admin will use the revelations coming out on the Oil for Food scandal to orchestrate the removal of Kofi Annan and then embark on a full scale reformation of UN.

How? Firstly, the UN is absolutely reliant on US bankrolling it to survive. Secondly W has now unparelleled authority because he does not have to face an election in 4 years time. Thirdly, because W is t-o-u-g-h and so is Cheney, Rumsfield and Condi Rice.

yeah

now we can have haliburton and ******** cheney rorting the system instead of the UN to the tune of tens of billions!

and more dead children and women so the US can secure their oil lifeline.

the need the money to torture women and children and drop cluster bombs on children.

your support for the death regime of bush is marvelous Gurujane

do you really enjoy the fact that nearly 500,000 people have been murdered in 2 years in afghanistan and Iraq?

even saddam with the help of the US found it hard to whack so many people in such a short time, but then when you are dropping fuel air bombs that kill children and cluster bombs that kill children and machine gun unarmed men, women and children its so easy.

hope you bought haliburton shares, to realise the profit of death

 

[medusala]

do you really enjoy the fact that nearly 500,000 people have been murdered in 2 years in afghanistan and Iraq?

How did we get from 100k a mth ago to 500k now?? I know the Black Watch are good but 400k in a few weeks?

 

[dan warna]

How did we get from 100k a mth ago to 500k now?? I know the Black Watch are good but 400k in a few weeks?

250k total deaths in iraq inc 100k innocent iraqi non combatants, and 150 legitimate and legal defenders of iraq killed by weapons such as fuel air bombs, cluster bombs etc.

( I wonder how you'd feel if an invading nation used such as weapon against Aus?).

250 k dead in afghanistan

 

[- PC -]

From Kofi back to the killing fields ..how we digress....

If Kofi was so bad why didnt the US bring anything up previously? Because the US was using that information themselves against Kofi and IMO that makes them just as corrupt.

I do agree the UN is an overblown pig trough..get rid of it, it does nothing IMO
Have we evolved far enough to set up a member nation league containing a revolving group of major players ...Ahh yes we have they are called IBM McDonalds Shell etc etc Viva le Business Cartel

 

[Contra Mundum]

http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/05/top12.htm

My prediction: W and new US admin will use the revelations coming out on the Oil for Food scandal to orchestrate the removal of Kofi Annan and then embark on a full scale reformation of UN.

How? Firstly, the UN is absolutely reliant on US bankrolling it to survive. Secondly W has now unparelleled authority because he does not have to face an election in 4 years time. Thirdly, because W is t-o-u-g-h and so is Cheney, Rumsfield and Condi Rice.

So Jane what is the neocon/true leftist line on the UN - same as the Michigan Militia and the authors of the "Left Behind" series?

 

[jim boy]

My prediction: W and new US admin will use the revelations coming out on the Oil for Food scandal to orchestrate the removal of Kofi Annan and then embark on a full scale reformation of UN.

How? Firstly, the UN is absolutely reliant on US bankrolling it to survive. Secondly W has now unparelleled authority because he does not have to face an election in 4 years time. Thirdly, because W is t-o-u-g-h and so is Cheney, Rumsfield and Condi Rice.

Can't see it happening, firstly Kofi hasn't got that long to go anyway and electing a new SG is time consuming expensive process. Secondly the UN isn't that reliant on US money. The US had for a long time with-held funding without the UN suffering especially. Thirdly, despite all the sabre rattling, the current US administration has in practical terms been more supportive of the UN system than previous administrations, for example, under Bush, the US has paid up all of its overdue subscriptions and rejoined some other UN organisations, such as UNESCO. Fourthly the US's hard line has tended to polarise world opinion against the US. If the US were to pull out, the only country guaranteed to follow suit would be Australia such is spinelessness of the current government.

Some reform is necessary, but only at the security council level, hence the current proposals that are going forward.

 

[medusala]

250k total deaths in iraq inc 100k innocent iraqi non combatants, and 150 legitimate and legal defenders of iraq killed by weapons such as fuel air bombs, cluster bombs etc.

( I wonder how you'd feel if an invading nation used such as weapon against Aus?).

250 k dead in afghanistan

Can you please provide some sources for this. Even a rabidly anti war paper like The Independent put the deaths in Iraq at 100k in total last time I read it (which obviously isnt every day). Also last reported death toll I saw in Afghanistan was a fraction of what you have written unless you include Taliban killings pre US appearance.

 

[GuruJane]

Can't see it happening, firstly Kofi hasn't got that long to go anyway and electing a new SG is time consuming expensive process.

I just have this feeling that W is gonna go after Kofi. Wouldn't you if you were W and had the power?

Secondly the UN isn't that reliant on US money. The US had for a long time with-held funding without the UN suffering especially.

Hmmm. But W has both Congress and Senate supporting him. He has unparalleled authority at this moment. I think they'll find away to spook UN.

ps personally think this is a good thing. UN has to be brought into realities of 21st century.

Thirdly, despite all the sabre rattling, the current US administration has in practical terms been more supportive of the UN system than previous administrations, for example, under Bush, the US has paid up all of its overdue subscriptions and rejoined some other UN organisations, such as UNESCO.

Yes ... but wasn't this PRE 9/11 when Bush was being the non interventionist/ Repub conservative? I think 9/11 was W's cold shower.

Fourthly US's hard line has tended to polarise world opinion against the US. If the US were to pull out, the only country guaranteed to follow suit would be Australia such is spinelessness of the current government.

World opinion? Would only have counted if Kerry had been elected.

In W's view, world opinion will have to fall in behind him and US now and too bad. Suffer guys. He's signalled this with all his cabinet appointments - and the "world" knows it. Fair enough. Otherwise he would be acting p*ss weak, and I don't think that is his record. Do you?

Some reform is necessary, but only at the security council level, hence the current proposals that are going forward.

Reckon the Oil for Food revealing French and Russian naked self interest in keeping Saddam in power during the Security Council's votes being now public and virtually irrefutable ...

well my guess is W is going to use that and the power he now has to fix them up good and proper. And that's why Putin has been back pedalling in Ukraine....

My opinion? Saddam lover Chirac deserves anything he gets.

 

[Tim56]

http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/05/top12.htm

My prediction: W and new US admin will use the revelations coming out on the Oil for Food scandal to orchestrate the removal of Kofi Annan and then embark on a full scale reformation of UN.

How? Firstly, the UN is absolutely reliant on US bankrolling it to survive. Secondly W has now unparelleled authority because he does not have to face an election in 4 years time. Thirdly, because W is t-o-u-g-h and so is Cheney, Rumsfield and Condi Rice.

I agree GJ, but you have forgotten that it is the dictatorships etc who control the UN.

 

[jim boy]

I just have this feeling that W is gonna go after Kofi. Wouldn't you if you were W and had the power?

There's a difference between him wanting to and him doing it. He can't follow the same approach he has elsewhere, simply go in with brute military strength. An he can't really use the force of American economic power too easily considering the relatively poor state that the the US economy is in. If he is too fight this battle, he would have to fight it diplomatically and in that regard he has already lost his chief weapon - Coiln Powell

Hmmm. But W has both Congress and Senate supporting him. He has unparalleled authority at this moment. I think they'll find away to spook UN.

ps personally think this is a good thing. UN has to be brought into realities of 21st century.

And what exactly is that? Complete acquiescence to American power?

Yes ... but wasn't this PRE 9/11 when Bush was being the non interventionist/ Repub conservative? I think 9/11 was W's cold shower.

Nope, all this happened post 9/11 . So much for your cold shower theory.

World opinion? Would only have counted if Kerry had been elected.

I'm not talking world opinion influencing American policy. Under Kerry, he world would probably go along with the US, under Bush, they're railing against it.

In W's view, world opinion will have to fall in behind him and US now and too bad. Suffer guys. He's signalled this with all his cabinet appointments - and the "world" knows it. Fair enough. Otherwise he would be acting p*ss weak, and I don't think that is his record. Do you?

Reckon the Oil for Food revealing French and Russian naked self interest in keeping Saddam in power during the Security Council's votes being now public and virtually irrefutable ...

well my guess is W is going to use that and the power he now has to fix them up good and proper. And that's why Putin has been back pedalling in Ukraine....

My opinion? Saddam lover Chirac deserves anything he gets.

Good to see your back to making the same old, same old veer from argument to the usual empty rhetoric (the french are scum, Russian self interest etc)

 

[GuruJane]

I agree GJ, but you have forgotten that it is the dictatorships etc who control the UN.

There's nothing like a moral justification, and the Oil for Food has given W that.

So moi is prepared to state W will make reform of UN part of his agenda and will make it happen.

Why? Becos W (and the others) have an existiential sense of purpose conferred by their experiences of 9/11. And now they have a mandate for the next 4 years.

We may not like it. We may even fear it. But they have it, and my bet is W will use it --- much the same way JH will use his new powers here.

 

[Tim56]

There's nothing like a moral justification, and the Oil for Food has given W that.

So moi is prepared to state W will make reform of UN part of his agenda and will make it happen.

Why? Becos W (and the others) have an existiential sense of purpose conferred by their experiences of 9/11. And now they have a mandate for the next 4 years.

We may not like it. We may even fear it. But they have it, and my bet is W will use it --- much the same way JH will use his new powers here.

He's a determined individual, don't get me wrong, but even that fact can't help him get control of the UN, which, like it or not is controlled by a bloc of nations largely hostile to America.

 

[Bombers 2003]

http://www.dawn.com/2004/12/05/top12.htm

My prediction: W and new US admin will use the revelations coming out on the Oil for Food scandal to orchestrate the removal of Kofi Annan and then embark on a full scale reformation of UN.

How? Firstly, the UN is absolutely reliant on US bankrolling it to survive. Secondly W has now unparelleled authority because he does not have to face an election in 4 years time. Thirdly, because W is t-o-u-g-h and so is Cheney, Rumsfield and Condi Rice.

Jane.
Is that 'reformation'of the UN or Deformation according to US prejudices?.

 

[afc9798]

He's a determined individual, don't get me wrong, but even that fact can't help him get control of the UN, which, like it or not is controlled by a bloc of nations largely hostile to America.

Nations that would sell their souls for increased foreign aid, assistance to access the trade activities of western democracies and the feathering of their own personal nests. I actually think Jane is correct and that this would succeed easily. The smarter thing to do would be to wait for Annan to go, but Bush is an egomaniac who also has debts to pay for his victory.

A US instilled puppet as SG of the UN would be a disaster for the world and would see many tragedies ignored the world over, all in the name of commerce. It would not surprise to see a new SG come from a completely unexpected candidate.

 

[BlueMark]

Ummm Jane the US has not paid its dues to the UN in years. Should be kicked out until they do.

 

[dan warna]

by my reckoning the permanent members of the security council with the veto are: the USA which has blocked anti torture, anti child labour etc laws, Britain, France, China and the russians.

Only China is a communist nation, the others are more or less democracies.

as for china the USA and Aus are bending over backwards to accomodate china to get trade concessions there and won't bleat a beep about attrocities there, so complaining about china is a bit gutless here when many of the so called right wingers are defending china in other threads wrt getting a FTA with them.

what a bunch of tossers.

 

[medusala]

as for china the USA and Aus are bending over backwards to accomodate china to get trade concessions there and won't bleat a beep about attrocities there, so complaining about china is a bit gutless here when many of the so called right wingers are defending china in other threads wrt getting a FTA with them.

what a bunch of tossers.

Malaysia discrimates against ethnic monorities and has political prisoners so lets not trade with them. Burma and Pakistan are military dictatorships so lets not trade with them. Iran isnt a democracy and is trying to build nuclear weapons so lets not sell them wheat. Saudi Arabia sponsors terrorism, lets not trade with them. Russia engages in torture and interferes in its neighbours affairs, lets not deal with them. Indonesia tortures with regularity in Aceh and Irian Jaya, lets not trade with them. The USA constantly tortures and kills innocents, we certainly cant trade with them. France likes nuclear testing in the pacific and discriminates against the clothing habits of ethnic minorities, lets not trade with them. Bahrain tortures political prisones and so does Egypy, lets not export sheep and wheat to them. The UK police force is institutionally racist, lets not deal with them. Italy deports asylum seekers straight back to Africa without hearing their case, lets not sell them wool. The Hungarians treat their gypsies disgracefully, so do the Canadians and their "aborigines", lets not deal with either of them. And so on.

No stuff it, lets not deal with anybody other than the lily white Scandinavians, that will solve our moral dilemma. We can all feel really good about ourselves then.

 

[Wicked Lester]

No stuff it, lets not deal with anybody other than the lily white Scandinavians, that will solve our moral dilemma. We can all feel really good about ourselves then.

Not with those wretched Swedes we wont. While remaining neutral throughout WW2 they happily went about their business of selling iron ore to the Nazis and keeping the Nazi war machine going. So there off the list as well.

But we still have the Danes and Norwegians, though the latter's a bit dodgy when it comes to whaling.

Still, we should strike a good trade in Leggo with the Danes.