KPD Wake Up Call

[ImaBeliever!]

Anyone who thinks we have our Key Position Defender stocks covered for the future were given a wake-up call last night.

I'm a huge fan of Thursfield, and McGuane is a real goer. They have a lot of endeavour, and Thursty in particular shows timing and spoiling ability. I hope they can play important roles in a future successfull RFC team.

However, with both at around the 191cm mark, and with slim builds that wont develop into anything aproximating monster status, they will struggle against the big forwards like Lynch & Hansen.

Polak has been hailed as the KPD messiah, but for most of the season he has played loose man in the back half (a role that he has done well in), but surely he should be taking the best KP Forward every week? TW's lack of confidence in putting Polly on a serious forward is worrying, and i don't subscribe to the theory that he hasn't developed fully or isn't fit enough yet, because he needs more experience if he will assume such responsibility into the future. Of course the last couple of weeks he has played forward etc, and has done well, so i'm not criticising him.

But look at us last night:

As much as i admire J. Bowdens efforts as a key defender, he will continue to be exposed against the better teams with big forwards. Likewise Raines, who seems to be put on the 3rd - 4th tall forwards frequently, and this is a huge worry.

We seriously need to recruit or develop a tall (194+) KPD to handle the big jobs and the physical hard work that is required. Sure, they don't grow on trees, but if we don't have at least one guy that can hold his own in a wrestle, we will always be in trouble.

A young guy by the name of Rance has been mentioned as an ideal big defender type, and though he seems to be rated a 1st rounder in this years draft, he is the sort that could fill the gap in a couple of years time.

So do people agree that we have an ongoing problem here, and if so, what are our options to fix it?

 

[tony_montana]

Anyone who thinks we have our Key Position Defender stocks covered for the future were given a wake-up call last night.

I'm a huge fan of Thursfield, and McGuane is a real goer. They have a lot of endeavour, and Thursty in particular shows timing and spoiling ability. I hope they can play important roles in a future successfull RFC team.

However, with both at around the 191cm mark, and with slim builds that wont develop into anything aproximating monster status, they will struggle against the big forwards like Lynch & Hansen.

Polak has been hailed as the KPD messiah, but for most of the season he has played loose man in the back half (a role that he has done well in), but surely he should be taking the best KP Forward every week? TW's lack of confidence in putting Polly on a serious forward is worrying, and i don't subscribe to the theory that he hasn't developed fully or isn't fit enough yet, because he needs more experience if he will assume such responsibility into the future. Of course the last couple of weeks he has played forward etc, and has done well, so i'm not criticising him.

But look at us last night:

As much as i admire J. Bowdens efforts as a key defender, he will continue to be exposed against the better teams with big forwards. Likewise Raines, who seems to be put on the 3rd - 4th tall forwards frequently, and this is a huge worry.

We seriously need to recruit or develop a tall (194+) KPD to handle the big jobs and the physical hard work that is required. Sure, they don't grow on trees, but if we don't have at least one guy that can hold his own in a wrestle, we will always be in trouble.

A young guy by the name of Rance has been mentioned as an ideal big defender type, and though he seems to be rated a 1st rounder in this years draft, he is the sort that could fill the gap in a couple of years time.

So do people agree that we have an ongoing problem here, and if so, what are our options to fix it?

time.....


Havent felt this comfortable about developing our own key backmen for....well ever. Thursfield is a gem, and McGuane is showing a bit too. I dont see the big deal about the height, scarlett is 192, rutten the same, just need size and that will come in due course.

I agree we do need another big bodied KP backman, even if we do have Polak developing.... Someone unhearalded like a Jayme Graham, about 195cm and 95kg, cant get a gig at wce, if we could nab him in the pre season it gives us an extra option and also allows for us to throw Polak forward when required with less headaches about who can cover. He's young and if he comes on thats another piece to the puzzle for the next 8 years, if he doesnt, no big deal we used a PSD on him.

 

[beaver fever]

If richmond manage to pick up rance, I will be a very happy man. Unfortunately i think most other teams rate him pretty highly, and so we would either have to use our first pick or trade for another 1st rounder.

I don't think we will use our first pick on rance, so that leaves trades. The problem is we don't have much to trade.

The only players of value that we can reasonably trade IMO include Raines, Pettifer, Newman, Tuck and Coughlan. Will these players get us a 1st round pick? Maybe a combination or coupled with draft picks.

 

[tony_montana]

If richmond manage to pick up rance, I will be a very happy man. Unfortunately i think most other teams rate him pretty highly, and so we would either have to use our first pick or trade for another 1st rounder.

I don't think we will use our first pick on rance, so that leaves trades. The problem is we don't have much to trade.

The only players of value that we can reasonably trade IMO include Raines, Pettifer, Newman, Tuck and Coughlan. Will these players get us a 1st round pick? Maybe a combination or coupled with draft picks.

we should definitely go all out to try and trade up our pick 2 to a 1st rounder in the top 10-12. We have some cattle that can help clinch a deal like that.

 

[_RT_]

A kid by the name of Collier is tipped to slide into the late first round early second round and I think if we miss on Rance at the top of the draft then we should look at Collier later on. Believe there are too many players rated ahead of him in the draft and as such clubs with late first round picks are likely to overlook him. The way I would go about it is take the best kid with our first pick most likely Cotchin and then look at Collier and a ruckman at picks 18 & 19.

 

[ImaBeliever!]

time.....


Havent felt this comfortable about developing our own key backmen for....well ever. Thursfield is a gem, and McGuane is showing a bit too. I dont see the big deal about the height, scarlett is 192, rutten the same, just need size and that will come in due course.

I agree we do need another big bodied KP backman, even if we do have Polak developing.... Someone unhearalded like a Jayme Graham, about 195cm and 95kg, cant get a gig at wce, if we could nab him in the pre season it gives us an extra option and also allows for us to throw Polak forward when required with less headaches about who can cover. He's young and if he comes on thats another piece to the puzzle for the next 8 years, if he doesnt, no big deal we used a PSD on him.

In some circumstances height isn't neccessarily an issue, but in that case bulk and strength must make up for it.

Rutten in particular is a tank, but i cant see McGuane and particularly Thursfield developing to that extent.

McGuane may eventually bulk up for that role, but if you look at his lower body, his legs are very skinny, and you need strong legs to compete one-on-one.

J. Graham could be a good pick-up, but it sounds like our priority would be a Ruckman in the PSD, and i'm not sure we would have players in return that WCE would want or which we could afford to let go.

Another type mentioned that could develop for the role from this years draft is Dulic, who should be available later than Rance.

 

[beaver fever]

we should definitely go all out to try and trade up our pick 2 to a 1st rounder in the top 10-12. We have some cattle that can help clinch a deal like that.

to get rance i think we will need a bit better than pick 10-12 and besides I don't think it would be worth say trading pettifer and pick 19 for pick 10-12. need to get fremantle's or WB's pick.

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

Its more the weight of our backman thats the worry, if they had a bit more muscle it would make their jobs a bit easier.

 

[jumpinjimmy]

Scarlett 192cm, Harley 192cm, Egan 196cm
Thursfield 190cm, McGuane 191cm, Polak 194cm

As you can see there isn't alot of difference in height there. Give the boys time and develop one of: Riewoldt/Hughes/Shulz or a draft pick into another KPD for support.

 

[_RT_]

Scarlett 192cm, Harley 192cm, Egan 196cm
Thursfield 190cm, McGuane 191cm, Polak 194cm

As you can see there isn't alot of difference in height there. Give the boys time and develop one of: Riewoldt/Hughes/Shulz or a draft pick into another KPD for support.

No great difference in height but it is the weight that really makes the difference: Scarlett 95kg Rutten 97kg Harley 95kg Glass 95kg Merrett 104kg Firritto 94kg Croad 97kg.

Compared with McGuane 86kg Thursfield 83 kg Polak 93 kg is it any wonder our players get treated like rag dolls.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

they're young and will get stronger and heavier, polak i'm most worried about as he seems to lack the burst speed to be able to compete with the big leading forwards and he doesn't have the wrestling ability to stop them one out. in his limited stints minding a player I don't think he's ever been anywhere near affecting a spoil.

 

[RHAS]

There aren't many defenders who would have stopped Lynch getting 7 last night given the delivery he was getting.

Even with Lynch getting 7 we were still close to them. Biggest difference was the clearances and our lack of a ruckman. A better ruck and more even clearance would have reduced the delivery to Lynch

 

[jumpinjimmy]

it is the weight

Yeah thats what I meant by give them time. For the life of me I can't understand how a player, particularly one that is suffering from a semi-immobilising injury (thursfield) can't put on weight. When I was 20 I took up body-building for 2 years and put on 20kgs of muscle (68-88). I was playing football and working in a physically taxing job at the time and.....genetics was working against me as my family are all beanpoles! look at the Eagles and Adelaide and how their young players are built compared to ours. It is bloody frustrating

 

[The BRICKSTER]

whos this rance dude can someone tell me a little bit about him where he is from etc

thanks

 

[jumpinjimmy]

whos this rance dude can someone tell me a little bit about him where he is from etc

thanks

Check out the trades/draft threads. From all accounts he will be the first KPD in the draft. High quality, well built true defender. Will go anytime after Kruezer, Cotchin, Morton, Palmer.

Did it for you:

Alex Rance – Western Australia
17 years old, 194cm, 87kg, Swan Districts
Tall defender who showed great dash from defence in his three championship matches. His father, Murray, played for both the Western Bulldogs and West Coast, where he was captain. Already had a taste of senior football in the WAFL and is much improved. He ranked seventh overall in handballs for the championships, helping provide Western Australia with its quick ball movement from defence.

 

[Paddles]

Scarlett's hair adds ten cms to his height!

 

[jumpinjimmy]

Scarlett's hair adds ten cms to his height!

And Harleys cheating himself out of a few centimetres

 

[_RT_]

Thought a little more about Rance would be valuable to those wanting to know. OUr very own mod Weaver has him rated at Number 5 in his mid season ratings of the draftees with the following comments:

5. Alex Rance (Key Def)
Was superb at FB and at 194cm is a perfect height for the AFL scouts. Should good courage in his aerial work and was a very enthusiastic rebounder racking up touches from the last line. Good kicking is crucial in a modern FB for switching play and maintaining possession and Rance ticks that box. The prototype modern FB.

Here is another review from the draft watchers:

More of a modern day full back but has the scope to play at CHB. Already 87kg and has played a bit of senior footy in the WAFL at 17 years of age so his body is already pretty strong. A pre-season at an AFL club will see him bulk up a bit more and as his body matures likely to become a physical force. Provides plenty of rebound, as he showed at the Championships. There's a lot to like about Rance - big bodied, good defensive skills, good disposal. Ticks a lot of boxes.

And another:

Alex Rance-194cm, 87kg-Swan Districts. ( CHB/FB). The star defender of the National champs. His run out of defence was great. His defensive work was excellent. Has good pace and skills for a big bloke. He worked in well with Browne and Meyers to give WA the killer dash from defence. His handballing was creative and he hits targets by foot. He is simply a defender that every club will rate.

Although Rance is a standout there are a few names getting mentioned in the drafts and trading thread that we can target with later picks if Cotchin/Masten/Morton/Palmer and co are better options for us to take with pick 2.

 

[heartbroken]

we are still missing a gorilla. Thursty and McGuane will never be gorillas. And while Polak has the potential, I cant ever see him playing with the physical force of a gorilla (ie. he uses his height well but does not use his weight).

Having said that, I notice in teh papers that Cothcin got second best for NK on the weekend (behind Kruezer of course) and kicked 4 goals (Kreuzer kicked 6!!).

Assuming we get pick 2, we cannot bypass Cotchin.

If we pick up Cotchin with pick 2, I think we will go all out to trade for another young ruckman rather than a key defender. Therefore, we may need to recruit a key defender (with gorilla potential) with our next pick.

If Wallace uses early picks to draft another rangy HBF, I will spew.

 

[tigertiger]

No great difference in height but it is the weight that really makes the difference: Scarlett 95kg Rutten 97kg Harley 95kg Glass 95kg Merrett 104kg Firritto 94kg Croad 97kg.

Compared with McGuane 86kg Thursfield 83 kg Polak 93 kg is it any wonder our players get treated like rag dolls.

Scarlett 28.2
Harley 29.1
Croad 27.4
Rutten 24.2
Firritto 23.7
Glass 26.3

Big Difference to these from 3 to 8 pre-seasons

Thursfield 21.3
McGuane 20.5
Terry Wallace 45+

Patience Grass Hopper

 

[ImaBeliever!]

Scarlett 28.2
Harley 29.1
Croad 27.4
Rutten 24.2
Firritto 23.7
Glass 26.3

Big Difference to these from 3 to 8 pre-seasons

Thursfield 21.3
McGuane 20.5
Terry Wallace 45+

Patience Grass Hopper

We understand the issue of age T2, but we are talking about future potential. Most would agree that perhaps McGuane and particularly Thursfield don't look like the physical types to become the monster defender we are looking for. Both show great potential as tall defenders, but not in such a role.

I have patience, but not the conviction.