KPP Defender Hierarchy

[RichosGuns]

Obviously we didn't get rid of any of Key position defenders through trade week and it would seem that we have an ample amount on our list.

The question I pose is what is the hierarchy of these players? By my count we have Moore, McGuane, Thurstfield, Astbury, Gourdis, Rance and Grimes. Thats seven players, all whom have AFL experience and bar Grimes and Astbury, have all been around for at least three years.

I can't see us playing anymore then three of these players in the side with the new 21 + 1 interchange system.

My hierarchy

- Moore: Simply head an shoulders above the rest imo. Can also play on medium fowards while giving drive out of defense
- McGuane: Had a poor second half of the season but imo is still a quality option. Is stronger then he looks, is fast, and can also run the ball out of the back line.
- Astbury: The best of the youngsters. Was awesome for a first year player and once he adds some size will be even better. Single handily forced Post to becoming a forward.
- Thurstfield: The best stopper on the lead and solid in one-on-one duels. But simply doesn't offer enough coming out of the back line. Improved in the second half of the year in this area before he was unfairly dropped imo.
- Gourdis: Played some solid games at the end of the year. Has all the talls, but still had too many goals kicked on him. Needs to improve as he isn't a youngster anymore. Better then VFL level.
- Rance: I'm not sure what we do with Rance. He really needs to reinvent himself imo. Looks shaky when under balls, can't take a big grab, and his kicking is below-average. Potential tagger maybe?
- Grimes: Just coming along nicely. Won't play much AFL this year which is okay for a second year player. Least of our troubles

Opinions?

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Agree with that list.

Astbury could still become a forward, as could Gourdis in my opinion.

 

[ize_]

I'd rather play Moore, Gourdis, Astbury this year, with McGuane and Thursty as depth. Rance is not a KPD specifically, but I still rate him at either end. Moore's clearly the best, but Ast and Goo will be better than everyone.

 

[Spluff]

Moore - our most reliable defender, can play any size, offers good rebound, and supports the other players in the backline. Good skills, run, knows where to go. Very good in a third tall role. Good leadership. Unfortunately too small to play KPD on a regular basis.

Thursfield - our number one key defender, may not offer much run but his competition is McGuane who runs around in circles. Reliable skills but our runner damages the opposition more. Can panic.

McGuane - number two key defender, just slightly behind Thursfield. Offers more run but is a poor user of the pill, slightly worse stopper. Super brave, can mark opposition kicks but is hardly a feature of his game. Good leadership.

Gourdis - Needs to be given every possible game this year. Disposal okay (good by hand, shoots off some creative handpasses) until he's running flat out at which point it is a shut-your eyes type moment. Offers good rebound, good spoiler, unbelievable athleticism, super mark and reader of the ball. Drops off to help out the other players, not afraid to launch himself into a pack. Should end up patrolling our backline a la Lake.

Astbury - Good with ball in hands, reliable rebounder without being creative. Haven't really had a good look at his spoiling abilities yet but is promising. Probably needed more forward but if not could become a good CHB. Good leadership.

Rance - Improved his aerial work 300% over the course of season (even ended up on Nick Riewoldt for a short period after Thursty went down and did an okay job while there, though it wasn't for long), improved his composure a lot as well but is still prone to panicking at AFL level (his problem is more a composure issue than a skills issue). Good stationary kick, overkicks it on the run. Still seems to lack a position. If he keeps working on his aerial work he could end up as a decent third tall. Absolutely ferocious attack on the football which is his main asset, which helps out his fellow teammates. Good leadership.

Grimes - improved over the course of the season, great athleticism. Kicking not so great on the run, but is good while stationary. Reads the play well, marks opposition kicks. Skinny as hell. Good leadership (or so I've been told).

I'd expect Gourdis to shoot up the rankings as the season goes on, and Astbury to be right up there after his 3rd season.

 

[Frustrated Tiger]

Agree with that list.

Astbury could still become a forward, as could Gourdis in my opinion.

Correct me if i'm wrong, as i'm sure you all will, but was Gourdis not drafted as a forward????

 

[nugget_12]

Astbury will be our best defender by the end of next year IMO, Kid has all the tools and Gourdis will be our #1 FB by 2012

 

[Rustof]

Yep Astbury and Gourdis should be lining up almost every game, get them to 50 games ASAP. Then possibly rotate Moore, Thursty, McGuane and Dea too.

 

[Azzleberry]

Have Astbury pencilled in as our CHB for the next 10 years... He just looks so natural there and even though he was under-sized, think he did an awesome job there this year...
Backline looking like this:
B: Newman McGuane Moore
HB: Connors Astbury Deledio
Although Hardwick has some 'man love' for young Farmer, so he might be added somewhere...Maybe on the bench...
We really needed to get rid of one of our KPD this trade period, but failed...
Grimes, Gourdis, Thursty, Rance all in the magoo's...

 

[Mr Magic]

I have a different list;

Moore , Astbury and Grimes.

The rest have yet to prove themselves , and guess what, this is why they couldn't be traded for a reasonable pick. Now they have the message their AFL careers are on the line next year at any club anyway so that should be one motivating positive!!!!

 

[El Tigre]

Have Astbury pencilled in as our CHB for the next 10 years... He just looks so natural there and even though he was under-sized, think he did an awesome job there this year...
Backline looking like this:
B: Newman McGuane Moore
HB: Connors Astbury Deledio
Although Hardwick has some 'man love' for young Farmer, so he might be added somewhere...Maybe on the bench...
We really needed to get rid of one of our KPD this trade period, but failed...
Grimes, Gourdis, Thursty, Rance all in the magoo's...

Not sure what you mean by Astbury being under-sized. He's 195cm and whilst not solid, by all means not skinny like Grimes. I wouldn't mind seeing Astbury as a running tall Winger, a bit like Richo in the time he did it, and the other Rievolt, whats his name, Nicholas i think.

But i think CHB is probably where he is going to sit.

 

[_RT_]

1. Moore - our most versatile defender, can play tall or small, provides rebound and marshalls the troops when Newman is up the ground. member of the leadership group so will be playing most weeks.
2. Astbury - Looked so natural after being moved down back. Provides good rebound and seems to have grasped the gameplan better than others. Still needs to build up some muscle/strength but all things being equal should be our CHB for the next 7-10 years.
3. McGuane - At this stage I still have Luke as our best option at FB, has decent speed, can spoil/compete 1-1 and now that he understands his limitations is becoming a better user of the ball. However, he should be well aware that Gourdis is coming hard to take FB away from him.
4. Gourdis - 3 games at the end of the year showed he can get his hands on the pill, but he also a chance of turning the ball over, 39 disposals for 12 turnovers is not a good ratio, although I will excuse him slighty as 6 of those came in the game against the Saints and we all know how well they force turnovers with their zone. By the end of next year there is every chance that Gourdis could be our FB.
5. Grimes - This might surprise a couple but after seeing this kid early on I really took a liking to him, has very good closing speed and can provide good rebound out of the backline. Given DH wants players who can provide both the ability to shut down and opponent and provide rebound Grimes gets a higher rating from me.
6. Thursfield - No doubt our best stopper 1-1, but just doesn't seem to add anything when it comes to rebound from D50, I reckon he realised this as well and that is why he wanted out.

At this stage I don't have Rance in the KPD group, I see him as a utility type who can play mainly up forward and through the midfield with occasional stints in the backline as needed. Given his size I reckon having him go through the midfield to add some grunt and to protect the likes of Cotchin Martin Foley & Lids from the attention of taggers could be more than handy.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Moore may have had the most consistent year but he usually takes the 3rd or 4th best forward. He's far from our best tall defender. I'd have him about 5th best tall defender ahead of Grimes. If Moore was playing full back every week and taking the player Mcguane or Thursfield did every week he'd be way down the order and struggling. Deledio and Newman are more damaging as smalls too

 

[SA TIGER]

Interestiing topic I say! An abundance of defenders, but no real answer to our achilles heal, finding a couple of KPF to help our Coleman medallist.

 

[ScallyWag1]

i think the main thing is that there is going to be some serious competition for those spots. at this stage i would say that moore is the only one with a walk up start into a KP. maybe mcguane.

they'll all have to lift their game if they want to be in the 1's.

there's really only room for 3, maybe 4 tall defenders, as that backline has to include a newman, connors/deledio, probably a farmer or o'reilly.

lets call it 4. so competing for 4 spots is Gourdis, Rance, Moore, McGuane, Thursfield, Astbury, Grimes, and didn't dimma mention that Post is a CHB in the making too.

Gourdis or Rance to be our Sub i reckon.

the competition for spots can only make them better

 

[santa claws]

im a liitle different even though it isnt likely to happen at this stage.

gourdis and post to take the big bodied opponents and moore as third tall.

the way i look at it is we have been poor with most of the senior players on the list. the sooner the young guys become capable play them. development is not the only reason we finished near the bottom again we need to do it differently stop overrating spuds and give the younger blokes the opportunity to show what they have. it seems most are prepared to do this with mids and smalls but not our talls.

the route we should be taking is

b/ newman/farmer - gourdis - moore/grimes
hb/ deledio - post - dea/grigg.

at the moment i reckon the tall structure forward will be jack, miller, and astbury.

 

[Tiger_Stripes]

Doesn't really deserve it's own thread but it has most relevance here. The blokes at SEN are just brilliant footy observers. Their stated summary of Richmond and its trades/trade needs:

Richmond
11.25AM 16-9-2010

Is in talks with Essendon to lure Bachar Houli.

Richmond needs a key defender.

Believed to be interested in Justin Sherman.

Richard Tambling in talks with Adelaide, but says he wants to stay in Melbourne.

http://www.sen.com.au/display-afl-trade-week/Richmond/15222

These analysts are truly brilliant.

 

[folester41]

moore is good, mcguane is ok, thursfield is average.

astbury is the most promising, gourdis has talent but im not sure of, grimes impressed him in the one game he played, showed footy smarts, good skills and athleticism.

rance wont be a kpd.

i hope we give astbury 22 games next year, and gourdis gets atleast a dozen.

 

[dorianyates]

Next year will be another year when the backline changes from week to week. I would like to see Richmond's backline look like this:

Farmer McGuane Moore
Newman Gourdis Deledio

Gourdis should be given as many games as possible as Richmond can make a decision on him by the end of next season. I like Astbury but am not too fussed if he spends half the year playing for Coburg as he doesn't need to be rushed. McGuane and Thursfield will be rotated and so will Rance. Really need to see Rance come along more this year as he did show a bit of improvement last year. The smalls in the backline look pretty good with Deledio and Newman being able to provide quality rebound while Farmer plays the more defensive role. Would like to see Connors on a HFF.

 

[THE_GUN]

Next year will be another year when the backline changes from week to week. I would like to see Richmond's backline look like this:

Farmer McGuane Moore
Newman Gourdis Deledio

Gourdis should be given as many games as possible as Richmond can make a decision on him by the end of next season. I like Astbury but am not too fussed if he spends half the year playing for Coburg as he doesn't need to be rushed. McGuane and Thursfield will be rotated and so will Rance. Really need to see Rance come along more this year as he did show a bit of improvement last year. The smalls in the backline look pretty good with Deledio and Newman being able to provide quality rebound while Farmer plays the more defensive role. Would like to see Connors on a HFF.

fast foward 2 years and hopefully we end up with the following

Farmer Gourdis Rance
Heppell Astbury Deledio

 

[folester41]

rance in the back line? god i hope not.

im hoping for fb: grimes, chb: astbury, third tall: moore.

 

[ize_]

Grimes is no more a full back than Rance is. Got a long way to go. Gourdis is the man

 

[THE_GUN]

can anybody remember what scarlett,lake, etc were like when they were 20 years old ...................................... i can !!

they were not that good perhaps the cats & dogs should of delisted them, what do you guys think !!