Langford

[MercurialHawk26]

Would be pretty handy if he could get another 10m-15m penetration on his kicks then.

Danger has disposal issues at times but when he needs to he can kick it well over 50m. Langers' disposal issues may be less obvious if he could burst & get the ball deep inside F50m - right now he has the burst but kicks high or short.

Agreed. But i think those issues are mental more than skill based. He can kick well but the ball comes off his shin more often than not, i think that is more because of issues in his head which can hopefully be sorted out over time...

 

[bhutt0]

I assume you mean it's rhetorical? Fortunately for Suckers, he didn't have to be an inside mid but could use his skill set elsewhere.

Where can Langford play where his inability to kick the footy will be less palpably appalling?



He's 24 in a month's time. He's been in a very professional environment at the HFC for how long....?
Where we work and drill and stress the utmost importance of kicking skills...
And why exactly will he get better now after so very bloody long practicing the damn art of foot to ball?
The will to attack the football can be found in many players. I'd like one who can also kick it and handball it, perhaps be a decent mark for their size too....

Edited to add:
From the Hawks official website, Langers Bio.

"The star of the 2014 finals series couldn’t quite back it up in 2015 and, as a result, looked on as Hawthorn claimed the three-peat. He played 13 games last year, but injuries and inconsistent form robbed him of any continuity in the side. The Hawks love his aggression, pace and tackling ability and his 2015 average of 11.7 contested possessions was No. 1 at the club, but a goal for this season would be to improve his 61.4 per cent disposal efficiency, the lowest of any Hawk. Will be at the club until the end of 2019 after signing a four-year contract extension."

Suck it up mate. The world isn't going to end tomorrow and Langers' kicking action isn't going to destroy the moral fabric of the Hawthorn footy club.

If you are unable to move on from your fixation, perhaps you could open your wallet and make a generous donation to Hawthorn to pay for a few kicking lessons with Darren Jarman.

 

[Tyrone Time]

Thought threads slating individual players were a no go?

 

[HolyWars]

He frustrates me, but then so did Kennedy.

Keep him because the last thing we need is to let another Kennedy go.

 

[flinchfree]

Suck it up mate. The world isn't going to end tomorrow and Langers' kicking action isn't going to destroy the moral fabric of the Hawthorn footy club.

If you are unable to move on from your fixation, perhaps you could open your wallet and make a generous donation to Hawthorn to pay for a few kicking lessons with Darren Jarman.

What a dumb uninteresting reply.
I've got zero fixation with Langers.
He IS the title of the thread, and if you read the OP, the discussion rides along whether readers believe in his ability to turn around his troubles passing the footy.
If you're uninterested, move on to another thread.

 

[Furn2]

Does a lot that doesn't show up on the stats sheet.

Halves a lot of contests, he always seems to be there when a ball up is called.

We need him in there.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Thought threads slating individual players were a no go?

Slating fan favourites is a no go
If you post a thread in which 99% agree, it's all ok

 

[bhutt0]

What a dumb uninteresting reply.
I've got zero fixation with Langers.
He IS the title of the thread, and if you read the OP, the discussion rides along whether readers believe in his ability to turn around his troubles passing the footy.
If you're uninterested, move on to another thread.

Oh I'm interested baby. And I do think you are fixated. You can frame it however you like but it does appear transparent.

 

[William Wonka]

Who do we have to replace him who's as good at winning the football and a better kick?

Does Cryil have any twins we dont know about?

 

[Hawks1994]

Langers stays

For me, his positives outweigh his negatives

In the top 3 for contested possessions, clearances and tackles at Hawthorn this year. These are his strong points

His weaknesses; disposal efficiency and clangers he is in the bottom three at the club. However interestingly enough Shiels and Breust are the two worst disposal efficiency (But both contribute incredibly in other areas) and Lewis and Mitchell are leading our clangers list ahead of Langford

Each player has strengths and weaknesses. As long as he continues to contribute in his strengths areas, he stays in the side

 

[threesixpio]

What I meant was that Langford shouldn't be playing anywhere at all except at the bottom of every pack, just like Suckling was only ever good as a precision kicker who we could afford to carry.

That bold bit you've cited is exactly what I'd expect. Of course if he can improve his disposal it would be great too.

I'm surprised his % efficiency would be worse than eg. Shiels. I get very frustrated with Shiels at times but then always remember to look at his obscene tackle rate - which is doubly amazing, given he's also covering a lot of ground in the process. Yes it would be great if Shiels would kick straight when he gets a shot on goal, but we've got others for that role.

Overall I'm not trying to defend Langford's shanks and dud handballs any more than I was happy with Buddy routinely kicking scores like 4.5 with a couple OOF. But I think our single biggest problem this year is getting whacked in the contested ball, and I think an in-form Langford is our best option there to help Mitchell.

I'm a Langford fan though so maybe a bit biased. I just really like players who go hard.

There seems to be two schools of thought on BF - those who like role players and those who want
(A) Tough players to have amazing disposal and
(B) players with amazing disposal to be the toughest guys in town.

Sure you need to be satisfactory at both but there aren't many players who are elite at both

The latter school explains all the Langford and Hill haters.

Langford was the Sewell replacement quite literally - he took his spot in 14. Maybe he was never meant to be a Sammy replacement and let's face it - who TF is a Sammy replacement ?!

But maybe Langford and Shiels in the same team will work if we get a Sammy, Burgoyne and Hodge replacement


...hmmm...that'll be easy ...not

 

[LuckyHawk]

Langers stays in, he will be a very required player come finals time as he has proven.

 

[parsons nose]

Unfortunately Langford is suffering from comparisons to his 2014 finals series. In that series every thing he touched turned to gold. Tellingly, his hands were clean too. Inside mids cannot afford to be fumbly and this has crept into his game of late.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Just needs time. His contested work is elite.

 

[Coathanger]

Cut the kid some slack. Similar reason to why keyboard critics complain Dangerfield was a sh*t kick ... cos he's spent from constant bullocking and tackling. If you want to talk about poor kicking perhaps lay into Jamar instead..

So there you have it,there's no good being spent getting it, if you give it straight back is it?

 

[caliente]

I am backing in Langford 100% If he's fit he plays. If he needs a rest so be it. He will be critical come finals.

 

[Jables]

His disposal is shockingly bad and it hurts us a lot, not even just his kicking his handballing can be pretty weak. Whenever he tries one of those weekly dribbles from 30 out that just slowly rolls into one of the three opposition players in the way I just sigh. He also really needs to get better at reading the play at ball ups, the ball just goes straight past him too many times.

Having said that we're probably better with him in the team at the moment. His problems are definitely fixable and that's what's frustrating, the dude is 24 next month so he has some time to improve. And he does a lot of stuff that wouldn't go noticed by too many.

 

[kazzooka]

When he was running through the centre square no pressure on him whatsoever gunston on a lead with a gap on his opponent he steadied and missed him by 10m is the massive weakness in his game. Thats a really basical skill execution at any level of football. It must be a kicking technique thing and maybe it's too late to change.

We already have Shiels who is a below average kick and used to have Sewell in the past but once Shiels improved Sewell made way. You cant afford more than one potential turnover merchant in the same midfield. Scores from turnover are a massive part of the modern game and especially against good sides like north next week.

Its a tough one because we need langfords contested game but his negative disposal cancels out any positives in ball winning ability. Wonder how far off lovell is, seems to be performing well at box hill and his kicking has to be better.

Shiels was well and truly best 22 before Sewell was forced out, in fact it was Langford in the later stages of 2014 that forced him out. Also Shiels can be a very good kick at times. Langford just needs to know his limitations, he is a decent enough long kick but he is very poor at delivering to a lead.

 

[savagebradley]

Would be pretty handy if he could get another 10m-15m penetration on his kicks then.

Danger has disposal issues at times but when he needs to he can kick it well over 50m. Langers' disposal issues may be less obvious if he could burst & get the ball deep inside F50m - right now he has the burst but kicks high or short.

His kicking generally is pretty good, gets a fair bit of penetration
It's just that something happens in his brain between the time the ball leaves his hand and when it hits his foot, almost like his brain says "what the hell am I doing", and the kick goes astray.

Firstly, I don't think Clarko would be unhappy with his manic attack on the ball.
Secondly, I think he will still improve.

Those saying "he's been in the system" - that really is meaningless.

The only thing that counts is playing in a real game.

 

[dipper86]

The last players you want ball in hand entering inside 50 is both Langford and Shiels, especially now with a forward line that has limited personnel to bring ball to ground, precise kicking to leading targets is now an absolute necessity.

To not be able to hit a leading target under little pressure entering your inside 50 says he has some serious issues. He is void of any confidence with ball in hand. In saying that....... He stays in the side, for the simple fact that we have other pressing issues at the clearances and with contested pill.

Its been a long time since I've seen this many flaws in a Hawthorn side......very concerning.

 

[bhutt0]

The last players you want ball in hand entering inside 50 is both Langford and Shiels, especially now with a forward line that has limited personnel to bring ball to ground, precise kicking to leading targets is now an absolute necessity.

To not be able to hit a leading target under little pressure entering your inside 50 says he has some serious issues. He is void of any confidence with ball in hand. In saying that....... He stays in the side, for the simple fact that we have other pressing issues at the clearances and with contested pill.

Its been a long time since I've seen this many flaws in a Hawthorn side......very concerning.

Though having the privilege to watch a side which has competed for a premier 5 years running has skewed the expectations and perceptions of many fans.

What we have build is certainly not the norm and the other 15 clubs can attest to that. Whilst I'm not advocating that he has a great kicking action/accuracy, it's worthwhile taking off our rose tinted glasses and accepting that there has always been and will be gaps in Hawthorn's (and it's players) capabilities and back them to do their best to overcome that within the constraints of the salary cap (and skill set).

 

[dipper86]

Though having the privilege to watch a side which has competed for a premier 5 years running has skewed the expectations and perceptions of many fans.

What we have build is certainly not the norm and the other 15 clubs can attest to that. Whilst I'm not advocating that he has a great kicking action/accuracy, it's worthwhile taking off our rose tinted glasses and accepting that there has always been and will be gaps in Hawthorn's (and it's players) capabilities and back them to do their best to overcome that within the constraints of the salary cap (and skill set).

I don't think its been skewed, its a reality. The Hawthorn side post 2013 was probably the most complete football side I have ever seen. Players flaws did exist but in its system with the right personnel these players weren't exposed to the extent they are now. Forward line, backline and midfield have all taken a hit, whether its been through retirements, injuries, aging/form. The snowball effect is that players that were playing lesser roles have now had to step up and with that added responsibility flaws are highlighted, both in players and positional wise. We are a different side......with new players going through a learning curve, lesser players exposed to more important roles and in that we have a Hawthorn side which has more exposed flaws.

 

[bhutt0]

I don't think its been skewed, its a reality. The Hawthorn side post 2013 was probably the most complete football side I have ever seen. Players flaws did exist but in its system with the right personnel these players weren't exposed to the extent they are now. Forward line, backline and midfield have all taken a hit, whether its been through retirements, injuries, aging/form. The snowball effect is that players that were playing lesser roles have now had to step up and with that added responsibility flaws are highlighted, both in players and positional wise. We are a different side......with new players going through a learning curve, lesser players exposed to more important roles and in that we have a Hawthorn side which has more exposed flaws.

I agree with what you're saying mate. For me, I'm fine with accepting the player/team flaws knowing that the players/team are trying their best.

 

[PhatHQ]

Langford is definatly a poor mans Dangerfield. Extremely similar roles except Langford is asked to play a defensive role while still trying to win the footy. Very hard to do!
He & Shiels both get the call to negate first & win second quite often leaving them with little room to breakaway if they do win the footy.
Our midfield has been below par for most of the year & subsequently the attacking game of Langford & Shiels has suffered.
Once the enginroom is firing on all cylinders the space will come & DE should rise accordingly from both as a result of the negating role will be reversed into the opposition.
His in game confidence is still clearly below where it was but is also on the rise with every game he plays.
His ground & pound grunt work is the best at the club now with only Silk to match him, who only does this in bursts.
Hodge, Lewis, Mitch can still do this but no where near as much as a guy who is 5-6-7 years younger with less battle scars & mileage.
If he can continue to develop his confidence he will structurally be in the top 5 come finals for our most important player.

 

[Cynic]

Jesus we're a useless clearance team and want to drop one of our better clearance players?