Added the bits you missed.
Well except for by Orlando obviously. And then he just sort of gave up at the end there.
LeBron >>>>>>>>>> Michael Jordan
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Added the bits you missed.
Well except for by Orlando obviously. And then he just sort of gave up at the end there.
If he is the MVP for 5 years and wins 5 more titles (i.e continuing on this current form as the questions states) he'll clearly be number 2 all time, * he'd be close to number one.Clear number two?
So better than LeBron, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Bird, Russell etc etc
Yikes.
Do you even comprehension campaigner?
Dr Awkward
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I guess it's obvious that he if continued on the current ridiculous form he would become pretty close to GOAT. What I more meant to ask is where do you guys predict he will finish his career?
At the conclusion of the 2017-18 season we saw LeBron James complete his 15th season in the NBA. Why is that significant? Because Michael Jordan also played in the NBA for 15 seasons over the course of his playing career. Seems like a good time to compare the two given this seems to be an ongoing debate among basketball fans. Let's start with hardware as of the conclusion of 2017-18 season:
Michael Jordan
Championships: 6 (1991-93, 1996-98)
MVPs: 5 (1988, 1991-92, 1996, 1998)
Finals MVPs: 6 (1991-93. 1996-98)
LeBron James
Championships: 3 (2012-13, 2016)
MVPs: 4 (2009-10, 2012-13)
Finals MVPs: 3 (2012, 2013, 2016)
Okay so LeBron has exact half the amount of Championships and Finals MVPs that Jordan had after 15 seasons and LeBron has one less regular season MVP award than MJ. In the past, people have used age to give LeBron the advantage over Jordan but that argument is almost dead because LeBron is turning 34 years old later this month and Jordan was a few months away from his 5th Championship and 5th Finals MVP when he turned 34. LeBron literally has to continue winning Championships (and be the best player on his team) going into his late 30s just to have a shot at catching Jordan. ADVANTAGE JORDAN.
Although it's nearly impossible to compare, some may look at their pre-NBA careers - Jordan's college career compared to LeBron's high school achievements but I think that's almost a waste of time and both captured national championships/were voted the best college/high school players in their finals seasons so I'll just put it down as a dead heat (mainly because LeBron didn't attend college). How else can we compare the two? Scoring? Assists? Rebounds? Steals? Durability? Playoff/Finals performances/efficiency? All star selections? Other awards (NBA first/defensive teams, scoring titles, defensive player of the year etc)? National team performances?
Michael Jordan
Championships: 6 (1991-93, 1996-98)
MVPs: 5 (1988, 1991-92, 1996, 1998)
Finals MVPs: 6 (1991-93. 1996-98)
LeBron James
Championships: 3 (2012-13, 2016)
MVPs: 4 (2009-10, 2012-13)
Finals MVPs: 3 (2012, 2013, 2016)
Okay so LeBron has exact half the amount of Championships and Finals MVPs that Jordan had after 15 seasons and LeBron has one less regular season MVP award than MJ. In the past, people have used age to give LeBron the advantage over Jordan but that argument is almost dead because LeBron is turning 34 years old later this month and Jordan was a few months away from his 5th Championship and 5th Finals MVP when he turned 34. LeBron literally has to continue winning Championships (and be the best player on his team) going into his late 30s just to have a shot at catching Jordan. ADVANTAGE JORDAN.
Although it's nearly impossible to compare, some may look at their pre-NBA careers - Jordan's college career compared to LeBron's high school achievements but I think that's almost a waste of time and both captured national championships/were voted the best college/high school players in their finals seasons so I'll just put it down as a dead heat (mainly because LeBron didn't attend college). How else can we compare the two? Scoring? Assists? Rebounds? Steals? Durability? Playoff/Finals performances/efficiency? All star selections? Other awards (NBA first/defensive teams, scoring titles, defensive player of the year etc)? National team performances?
The 'check box' approach to determining which player is better is terribly simplistic and not particularly useful. Championships are a team achievement and Jordan spent the 1990s on the 90s equivalent of the Golden State Warriors. Jordan never faced a team remotely as talented as the Warriors from 2015 - 18. Both players missed out on MVPs when they were clearly better than their contemporaries. Meanwhile, there is at least two occasions where LeBron was the standout in the NBA Finals on a losing team.
This approach to analysing a player's ability was not common place in the 1980s or even 1990s until Jordan retired. It is an approach that fundamentally lacks context and without context this is not a discussion worth having.
We have an array of advanced statistical measures that can determine how effective these players are. Some favour Jordan, others favour LeBron, but there is very little difference between the two. They have both dominated their contemporaries comprehensively for a long period of time. They are head-and-shoulders above anyone else in terms of playoff performance.
The one point from these advanced measures clearly in LeBron's favour is that he has played in a superior league. The overall talent level from top-to-bottom in the NBA over the past 15-years easily outstrips the talent level during the years Jordan operated. It is not terribly close in fact. To have a similar level of dominance to Jordan, in a superior league, suggests that LeBron would be the better player had their careers overlapped.
Two great players who were the best in the business in eras in which they played. I used to think I'd never see a better basketballer than Magic Johnson until I saw MJ. It really doesn't bother me which player can be considered better. It's subjective at best, but totally inconclusive.
I can actually watch LeBron play without once thinking of MJ, and vice versa.
I can actually watch LeBron play without once thinking of MJ, and vice versa.
J Shuttlesworth
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It's about time this was discussed.
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But seriously.
Can you actually compare them?
Different players, different positions, different era.
J Shuttlesworth
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But seriously.
Can you actually compare them?
Different players, different positions, different era.
BigFooty hasn't installed the Sarcasm font yet.
I totally agree.
DarwinRoo
Brownlow Medallist
Except he hasn’t had a similar level of dominance. Where are his scoring titles? Why can’t he score more than 30 a game?
And I’d argue that the league is superior. Name one centre that plays today that holds a candle to any that Jordan played against.
Very true. It's a totally different game these days when compared to the late 80/90s when Jordan was dominating. It was a big man's league until Jordan started to show a shooting guard can survive (and thrive) against the big boys. Magic Johnson, Shaquille O'Neal, Karl Malone, Patrick Ewing, Dennis Rodman, Reggie Miller and Clyde Drexler are just some of the names MJ had to beat in the playoffs on his way to winning six Championships. So I think it would be hard to argue Jordan beat nobodies while he was winning rings.
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Name all the centres in Jordan's era who could hit threes with regularity?
The league is objectively more talented than in the 1980s and 1990s. It isn't even a debate.
Also since when is scoring titles the only way to dominate? Between scoring and playmaking LeBron contributes more points a game than Jordan did.
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I've had the privilege of seeing some of the best ever play from Kareem, Moses Malone and Dr J (admittedly in their twilight) right through to the current crop of players and the way the NBA plays the game has changed quite a bit in that time.
It is my opinion that Michael Jordan is the GOAT, that said it is also my opinion that LeBron is definitely one of the all time greats and would have been one of the best players of his generation in any era.
I guess the first thing that really separates Jordan from Lebron in my opinion is defence. I cannot argue at 6 ft 9 inches 250lbs Lebron is more versatile in the positions he can guard but Jordan overall was a better defender and a lot of that comes down to the second thing I feel puts Jordan that little bit ahead of Lebron. Intensity, no one was more intense or driven to be the absolute best on the court in every way possible than Jordan (this drive could be considered pathological), this is no slight on Lebron I have no doubt he wants to be the best I just don't think I've seen anyone has wanted it more the Jordan.
And on a side note about a comment earlier in the conversation about big men being more talented now days. The way big men play has changed quite a bit but it is my belief that past Power Forwards and Centers were just as talented but needed to assert their talents in a different manor, had their development required it players like Hakeem, Ewing, Karl Malone etc. would have had more range in their game much like the current crop of front court players.
It is my opinion that Michael Jordan is the GOAT, that said it is also my opinion that LeBron is definitely one of the all time greats and would have been one of the best players of his generation in any era.
I guess the first thing that really separates Jordan from Lebron in my opinion is defence. I cannot argue at 6 ft 9 inches 250lbs Lebron is more versatile in the positions he can guard but Jordan overall was a better defender and a lot of that comes down to the second thing I feel puts Jordan that little bit ahead of Lebron. Intensity, no one was more intense or driven to be the absolute best on the court in every way possible than Jordan (this drive could be considered pathological), this is no slight on Lebron I have no doubt he wants to be the best I just don't think I've seen anyone has wanted it more the Jordan.
And on a side note about a comment earlier in the conversation about big men being more talented now days. The way big men play has changed quite a bit but it is my belief that past Power Forwards and Centers were just as talented but needed to assert their talents in a different manor, had their development required it players like Hakeem, Ewing, Karl Malone etc. would have had more range in their game much like the current crop of front court players.
peternorth
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Allen Iverson had the following in his starting 5
Shaq
Lebron Kobe
Curry Jordan
Shaq
Lebron Kobe
Curry Jordan
Damn that’s fire
Abdul-Jabbar
Magic Bird Duncan
Iverson himself
Magic Bird Duncan
Iverson himself
DarwinRoo
Brownlow Medallist
So why doesn't he?
Because he thinks that being more of a play maker is more important to success maybe?
He has career averages of 27.2 points per game and 7.2 assists per game. I don't think it wouldn't have been too hard for him to be a 30/5 player instead (MJ's numbers). But it's not his DNA. For better or worse.
Also, you do know when he was 21 he averaged 31 points per game. You don't think if he was doing that at 21, he could do it through his prime?
He's constantly averaging 30+ in the playoffs when it matters.
The guy can score.
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