Let's get this straight...

[G.O.B]

untouchables:
swan
pendlebury
beams
sidebottom
maxwell
o'brian
shaw
didak

should be untouchable:
n.brown
anthony
dick
davis

5 midfielders and 3 small/medium defenders make up your list of untouchables.

Yet we have major problems with our KP forwards and will rely on a 1 year slower Presti to hold up our defence.
1 of our ruckmen cant see out a season and the other is green.
O'Bree still gets a game.

We are not going to challenge for quite a while if we dont address some of these concerns and we 'aint going to be able to do it purely through the draft.

 

[alfiiee]

Wrong.. We are full of untouchables..
Our point of view is different to that of the clubs..
We would be too reluctant to give up a lot..!

Davis - Did plenty for the aboriginals of our team, we've had him for ages and built him into a gun..
Didak/Shaw - would have gotten rid of them last year if we didn't want them
Medhurst - Runner up B&F and AA last year, signed last year for 3 years?
Thomas - the face of the club
O'brien - Only club that gave him a chance, keeps improving. Not giving our hard work away to anybody.
Travis Cloke - won a B&F at the age of 20..! Need I say much more, I am not worried about what opposition think of him.. If this guy can escape personal issues he will be a gun..
N.Brown/Ben Reid - too important for structure and life after presti..
Maxwell - Obvious, captain AA improvement..


This pretty much leaves the rest who are worth next to nothing.
Presti too old
Obree too old
Lockyer too old
Dawes, Stanley, Barham, Dick worth next to nothing
Rusling/Cook/L.Brown/Toovey/Ben Johnson worth nothing
Shannon Cox..
Im not even going to go on.. We have nothing that is really of worth to anyone else even though guys like Tooves BJ L.Brown are all important for our structure..

Personally I want Fev at the club but we have nothing that we would be seriously willing to give up except pick 14 in a weak draft..
Not to mention he has 1.4M left on his contract..

Can't see Carlton accepting any of the above..
I actually can't see Carlton accepting anything, Should be a Blue next year..

 

[jerry springer]

Leon davis is definatly "touchable"

that sounded incredibly gay but you get the point.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Pendlebury.

Adjusted your list to the ACTUAL only untouchable on our entire list.

The ONLY time we can add other untouchables, depends on who we have the chance to recruit.

If we're talking some like Fevola, then Pendlebury is the only one not up for trade.

If we're talking someone like say, Daniel Harris, then pretty much everyone bar Cox, Lockyer, O'Bree, Toovey, Johnson, Cook and Stanley are untouchable.

 

[FIGJAM]

...and we 'aint going to be able to do it purely through the draft.

This is what I reckon too.

Relying solely on the draft to address flaws means you'll never get a group peaking together, or it may end up imbalanced for one reason or another.

Banking on stop gaps like Leigh Brown is quite simply ******ed, so we have to give up more than pick 73 to get someone we need of genuine use.

 

[incog43]

The business end of your season started at round 22. In the following weeks you played all the serious flag contenders, and they played you.

Bulldogs = lose (close game)
Saints = lose
Crows = win (great win)
Cats = lose

If some of you guys seriously think that the draft will get you a flag, you have problems. Replace Preti with whoever, your side is no better, it remains at the same strength(presti is bloody good).

Some of these younger players played quite a bit of the season in the two's, or had injuries, to be fair, young KPP have to do their time, and it takes a while.

I would have thought that the results above, and your sides inability to kick a lot of goals in THOSE games would be telling you something.

Cloke is a good player who cant kick.
Medhurst is a AA player who had a terrible year.
Davis is a AA who never performs in finals.
Anthony is a good player who gave you fantastic service for most of the season, when it counted, with the number 1 defender on him, he did not find it easy. In fairness he did not get a lot of support in the final series.

Your side had a fair run from 22(inclusive) on, competitive, outclassed at times, and as sure as shite, struggled to kick goals.

From the outside looking in, you need a gun forward, maybe its Fevola, maybe it isnt, but christ you need something, because when it matters, some of your forwards go missing, or have to in Anthony's case take the number 1 defender when they are not quite up to it.

I could care less if you take Fevola or not, I hope Fevola is a blue next year, but if a fair trade is there, its up to the club.

Stop looking at potental as being your saviour, stop over rating your players, you know, another 2 or 3 years and he could be a gun sort of thing...every board on BF has this issue, mine included.

This game is about winning flags, will be interesting to see how serious the pies are about Fevola.

On a side note, given his record, if the pies were cold on him I would fully understand that.

 

[domus]

I think you've summed it up pretty well Incog 43. I want to know why some here believe that Clokey will become a gun. Perhaps they have a different interpretation of the word. Jonathon Brown is a gun. Gary Ablett is a gun. Cloke as you say is a good, solid, workhorse but rarely a matchwinner. I'm sure he will improve just as I hope Beams and Sidey will get better with time and experience-but guns?

 

[Krueger]

Stuff trading any of our KPP. Reid will be ready for AFL next year at CHB. Brown to slot into Presti's spot when he retires but in the meantime he can rotate from defence to attack depending on matchups.

Dawes is the difficult one though - he can be our gorilla FF for the next 10 years if he continues to develop but if we get Fev it will be hard to squeeze him into the team if not then hes a shoe in for FF.

Trading Travis Cloke is utter bs. Yeh he had an ordinary year but he is much much better than the form he showed this year.

 

[Sloth]

my list of untouchables:

Maxwell
O'Brien
Pendles
Daisy
Didak
Shaw
Swan
Cloke
Davis
Beams
Sidebottom
Anthony

 

[Sloth]

Can't see Carlton accepting any of the above..
I actually can't see Carlton accepting anything, Should be a Blue next year..

Depends on how badly Carlton want to offload him doesn't it? What if he stays at Carlton, how well is he going to perform for the team that tried to dump him? I'd say Carlton have to get rid of him now, and it could be that one club gets a bargain.

 

[daics cousin]

LOL...This is why we will never bring proven talent into the club from else where because if we have key decision makers thinking like some of the people on this board then we will never get anywhere in trade week.

NEWS FLASH: YOU HAVE TO GIVE UP SOMETHING GREAT TO RECIEVE SOMETHING GREAT!!

Plenty of clubs have been enquiring about Ben Reid and Nathan Brown. Both of them have the potential of ending up as key position defenders. The blues need defenders, if you want Fev this is the deal you would probably need to give.

First OR second round pick + Reid OR Brown for Fev


Yes i agree but i would not trade a ten year player for someone who will give you 2 maybe 3 years max.Then what happens,you are back to square one.
Also fev is a good player,but we are not the desperate ones carlton are let them come to us we offer what we offer they don't want it bad luck,

I would only offer them our first round pick 14 nothing else.That is very fair,plus we would take over his contract payments.
Donot get desperate.With our first round pick they can pick up a kpp in the draft.

It doesn't make sense to me to trade one good player for another good player.What is the purpose of that ?

Youth is really the way to go,especially with the zero draft prosepects over the next few years,we don't want to get stuck with an ageing list.like some of the other afl clubs will out of desperation,we want a dynasty of flags like the cats current team ( that group has been together for ten years) or the Brisbane team of old.

 

[Markfs]

Brisbane traded Cameron Wood to us because they had other options for ruckmen and they didnt rate him highly. That is why they traded him. Collingwood got him because we had no option for ruck other than two undersized players. We couldn't draft one because it would take too long, so we HAD to trade.

So, when you're asking who Collingwood should trade, you should think about who isn't needed. Chris Dawes or Travis Cloke. I dont think we need both. Is Jack Anthony the final solution at full forward? If not, then we dont need another 190cm half back.

The same question is true for Ben Reid. Where is he going to fit in the team? Do we need both him and Nathan Brown down back? If not, then we can trade him. But if we're going to be looking for a CHB in 2011 because we traded Reid in 2010, then it would be plain stoopid to let him go.

 

[incog43]

Plenty of clubs have been enquiring about Ben Reid and Nathan Brown. Both of them have the potential of ending up as key position defenders. The blues need defenders, if you want Fev this is the deal you would probably need to give.

There's that word again - "potential"

"Also fev is a good player,but we are not the desperate ones carlton are let them come to us we offer what we offer they don't want it bad luck.."

Good business rationale there, try these words instead.."we don't want to improve our chances of winning a flag in the short term..bad luck"
BTW, FEV is elite.

"It doesn't make sense to me to trade one good player for another good player.What is the purpose of that ?"

Because one of those players is elite who will kick 80+ goals every season for the next 3 years, will also take the number 1 defender, and will improve your chances significantly with regard to winning a flag.

"Youth is really the way to go,especially with the zero draft prosepects over the next few years,we don't want to get stuck with an ageing list.like some of the other afl clubs will out of desperation,we want a dynasty of flags like the cats current team ( that group has been together for ten years) or the Brisbane team of old."

I agree with you, but have you not been trying this? Where is your Brown, Bradshaw? Where is your Ablett or Chapman? Where are your finals game breakers...You have a great Midfield, and a forward line that mostly does the job FOR THE 22 HA games, but you don't have ONE ELITE forward come finals. Davis fails, TBH Didak failed, Cloke tries hard but he is not elite, Anthony not there yet either. Maybe in a couple of years though...get my drift.

This may surprise you, it may not, I would not be interested in Travis Cloke to Carlton, he is a good player, Works hard, is young, he will never be more than a good player though. If Carlton had developed T Cloke, I would welcome him into our 22 for those reasons, but I would never TRADE for him.

Interesting to see the mixed comments here between get him now and get him cheap. Goodluck either way.

 

[footyfreak]

I never realised we had so many deluded supporters that overate our players so much.

Glad a lot of you guys aren't running the club coz we'd be waiting even longer for a flag.

Some of the names on these lists of untouchables are just plain ridiculous.

 

[Heckles]

i'd put nathan brown and ben reid in the "not unless it's for gary ablett or lance franklin" corner.

this

 

[Sloth]

I never realised we had so many deluded supporters that overate our players so much.

Some of the names on these lists of untouchables are just plain ridiculous.

Such as...?

 

[rhysman]

Surely the Pies have to look at Fev very closely. Of all the clubs he could go to, Collingwood is the one he would add the most to IMO. He would put you within a hairs breadth of a flag. Now I know there is plenty of downside with the guy but with the strong off field leadership you have the risk has gotta be worth it?

 

[footyfreak]

O'Brien
Daisy
Cloke
Davis
Beams
Anthony

None of these are untouchable. Even the ones i took off the list are tradeable.

 

[rhysman]

Just about every club have no more than 4-5 untouchables, geelong probably the exception. It all depends on what your getting back in the deal. Who do you reckon Collingwood wouldnt have traded to get Chris Judd?

Pendlebury
Swan
Shaw

Everyone else and draft picks would have been discussed.

 

[MarkT2]

This is what I reckon too.

Relying solely on the draft to address flaws means you'll never get a group peaking together, or it may end up imbalanced for one reason or another.

Banking on stop gaps like Leigh Brown is quite simply ******ed, so we have to give up more than pick 73 to get someone we need of genuine use.

Thank you FIGJAM!!!

Can everyone please read this commit it to memory and recite it 100 times at the AGM.

We have to fill holes via trades and it is VERY difficult if not impossible to do that while not giving anything of quality up.

We can debate what we need but what we can't debate is that we have needs. Not unless I missed us winning the last couple of flags.

 

[Markfs]

If you saw someone filling a hole by digging another hole, you would think that he was crazy...

There's no need to give away players who are in our first 22 to get Fev.....

The other thing that people dont consider is the effect on the team of trading players who are getting a regular game and dont want to leave.

 

[rhysman]

To get a player of fevola's calibre of course you have to give away someone who is in your best 22. And a first round draft pick as well! Do you honestly believe you'd get a player as good as Fevola by coughing up players not capable of getting a game for you. As a matter of interest which players would you have in this deal?