Current Lloyd Rayney Trial / Appeal

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Belnakor said:
It doesn't matter if he carried it or not. It was probably in his pocket.

The fact is, he was the last one in possession of it, the next time it is seen it was in kings park. Noone can explain why it was there, the only plausible theory is fell out of his pocket while he was either 1) dumping the body or 2) checking the grave site at a later point.
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Totally disagree they're the only plausible theories, as did the judge who rejected they were the only conclusions you could reasonably conclude.
 
GreyCrow said:
1st paragraph is possible and then the following still applies

I read a comment that most car thieves dump cars within 1.5km of their home ie its not far to walk but far enough that it creates difficulty in locating 'who'

Happy to acknowledge planned attacks can have planned 2nd cars
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The car was driven around 4 km in the opposite direction to the Rayney residence. Also the RAC officer noticed a 2002 0r 2003 Holden Statesmen sedan following what he thought was CR's car at 1.41 am on the night she went missing. If this sighting was correct there's a getaway car.

Kershaw St seems to me someone's trying too hard to point the finger at LR.
 

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Belnakor said:
low level crims who predug the hole and buried her head first so her body decomposed quickly? righto.
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Was it determined the hole was predug before Corryn was abducted?

Agree that burying her head first is curious but there might be reasons other than quicker decomposition. Buried properly is concealed regardless and if thought to be well concealed so not to be discovered, does it matter the rate of decomposition? Not sure here how much faster it occurs.
 
one eyed spy said:
Totally disagree they're the only plausible theories, as did the judge who rejected they were the only conclusions you could reasonably conclude.
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The judge said he didn't have any plausible theories but that didn't rule out something highly improbable happening.

Your only theory is that people were trying to frame LR which is nonsense.
 
Belnakor said:
The judge said he didn't have any plausible theories but that didn't rule out something highly improbable happening.

Your only theory is that people were trying to frame LR which is nonsense.
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Ive never once stated that was my theory, thats nonsense. Leaving something at a place in order to allude to a situation is a big leap to an all out set up.
 
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Belnakor said:
so what is your theory on how the card got there?
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My best guess is it was left there by someone who had her car & they found it inside. I dont know who that was or whether she was a random attack or a targeted one.
I know that if LR had organised it he wouldnt be asking them to leave it there and I dont believe that someone didn't attempt to leave it in a way that looked as though they'd tried to dispose of it and failed & it was an incriminating piece of evidence left by mistake.

The reason the judge didnt offer any plausible explanation as to how it may have legitimately got there is because he doesnt have to. Thats the job of the prosecution to say how it happened. In doing that they need to convince him that was the only way it could have come to be there, ie beyond reasonable doubt, which they didnt do hence him rejecting it.

As you said it could have been in LRs pocket when he dropped it, except he may not have been scoping the site or burying his wife at the time. Instead he may have been in her car, perhaps even with her when he put his hand in & pulled it out then left it in there himself.
Or he may have left it in the pocket & dropped it off to the dry cleaners & they might have handed it back to CR who left it in her own car totally unbeknown to LR.
Or one of the kids may have picked it up accidently with their things and transferred it into her car.
Or LR might have dropped it out of his car in their driveway & any one of them may have picked it up & thrown it in her car.
Im sure theres other ways his card may have found its way there as well that are totally consistent with LR not being anywhere near Kings Park but to me, its most likely that it was in her car.
 
Belnakor said:
The judge said he didn't have any plausible theories but that didn't rule out something highly improbable happening.

Your only theory is that people were trying to frame LR which is nonsense.
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You have to admit, being the DPP, you would have a few enemies

Many of these people have duress alarms they are at such high risk. There is some complete stalker psychos out there. DPP very high risk.
 
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Belnakor said:
it was not but it would have been a 20-30 minute job going flat out to dig such a hole in the sandy soil of kings park. It is possible they dug it on the night but with a body in the trunk thats pretty ballsy.
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You would hope you didn't hit tree roots in the digging process. It could be a nightmare dig in that place full of trees
 
Melsy said:
You have to admit, being the DPP, you would have a few enemies
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Melsy you've been corrected a couple of times, Rayney wasn't the DPP. He was a prosecutor for the ODPP and not the only one, some time before Corryn's murder in the 90s to 2002. Four years as second in charge, then a stint 03/04.

He may have made a few enemies, I'm sure they all do but to the extent where his wife is targeted and murdered in such a clumsy and chaotic scheme?

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/ns...ed-killer-ng-f26adb4c67f44b6a3686d469983bf519
 
Melsy said:
You have to admit, being the DPP, you would have a few enemies

Many of these people have duress alarms they are at such high risk. There is some complete stalker psychos out there. DPP very high risk.
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And being a Registrar in the Supreme Court maybe she came across some restricted information or made some enemies as well..

I think its telling that Chief Justice Brian Martin said not finding Corryn's murderer was one of the only regrets he had when retiring.

He was scathing of cops planting seed pod evidence trying to incriminate LR.
 

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shellyg said:
Melsy you've been corrected a couple of times, Rayney wasn't the DPP. He was a prosecutor for the DPP and not the only one, some time before Corryn's murder in the 90s.

He may have made a few enemies, I'm sure they all do but to the extent where his wife is targeted and murdered in such a clumsy and chaotic scheme?
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Bad luck for the crims in that they caused an oil leak and good luck for the cops that it lead them directly to her grave.

Otherwise odds were she wouldn't ever be found. Doesn't mean there wasn't forward planning involved. Can't explain how "There's a body going in there" Lacco could indicate a month before where the disposal site was?
 
BlueE said:
Otherwise odds were she wouldn't ever be found. Doesn't mean there wasn't forward planning involved. Can't explain how "There's a body going in there" Lacco could indicate a month before where the disposal site was?
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If the person who repeated what Lacco apparently said is credible, the detective investigating Lacco never bumped him from person of interest to suspect (later went to jail for corruption) which seems a bit strange not to imo.
 
BlueE said:
And being a Registrar in the Supreme Court maybe she came across some restricted information or made some enemies as well..

I think its telling that Chief Justice Brian Martin said not finding Corryn's murderer was one of the only regrets he had when retiring.

He was scathing of cops planting seed pod evidence trying to incriminate LR.
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Im going to look for the specialist that stated the pods were not from South Perth. Back in an hour or so, looking for it.

"She was questioned about the presence of a similar tree, bearing similar fruit, which grew in the carpark of the Bentley Community Centre — where Mrs Rayney was last seen alive on the night of her disappearance after attending a bootscooting class."
https://thewest.com.au/news/perth/seed-pod-evidence-back-in-rayney-trial-ng-b88540201z

A RESEARCH scientist at the WA Herbarium has told Lloyd Rayney's Supreme Court murder trial he did not think there was a formal, tamper-proof police seal on an evidence bag containing two seed pods which were taken to him for informal identification in August 2007.

https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/ns...ney-trial-ng-4089a04ae7947cf63eb446b5af845b8d

“I'm suggesting that that was planted… [by] the police. People within the investigation.”

Despite Mrs Rayney being buried in a sandy grave, and three kilograms of that sand being in her body bag where the seed pod was supposedly found – the pod had no trace of that sand.

The trial judge, Brian Martin, found the seed pod evidence so dubious, he refused to accept it.
https://www.9news.com.au/2018/10/14/22/05/60-minutes-lloyd-rayney-corryn-rayne-murder
 
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POLICE investigating the alleged murder of West Australian Supreme Court registrar Corryn Rayney tried but failed to conclusively match plant material on her body to a tree in her front yard, a court has heard.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...k=0738850eecf1538a1029ed4cbf21525f-1540866719

Ms McKay told the court police spoke to her about the dinner and she gave them the seating plan and an invoice showing Mr Rayney had paid for a ticket. She said Mr Rayney never approached her about what the police were asking her about and he never asked her what she was telling the police.

Barrister Elizabeth Needham also attended the dinner and was seated at Mr Rayney's table.

Yesterday she told the court that Mr Rayney spoke affectionately about his wife at the dinner which was attended by a who's who of Perth's legal scene.

Those at Mr Rayney's table played a game of celebrity heads and Mrs Needham was given the identity of “The Queen” which was written on the back of Mr Rayney's name card.
 
Talk about a bullseye on ya forehead. Rayney timline

Mr Rayney steps down from duties at Western Australia's Crime and Corruption Commission. He was representing police at a hearing into misconduct by police and prosecutors in a wrongful murder conviction.
https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa...ey-murder-ng-e1b9fa4459c6f6dbc215b373a2860231

Detective Correia told the court he believed Mr Rayney had killed or incapacitated her by "choking her out".
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-27/lloyd-rayney-defamation-continues-with-carlos-correia/8475546

Google maps from Bentley to Lovekin

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Ben...4c6a63226ab69e!2m2!1d115.828254!2d-31.9653442

Ms Needham said she had used the placecard in a game of celebrity heads.

She told the court she had spoken to Rayney about his family and he spoke about his wife affectionately.

Rayney's former personal assistant has told the trial about comments the barrister made suggesting he was being framed for his wife's death.

Shari Paradise gave evidence this afternoon about a conversation with Rayney in which he said he thought the placecard had been "planted".

She also recalled Rayney telling her, before he was arrested, that he knew several people in the Subiaco street where Mrs Rayney's car was abandoned, and if he had done it, "he wouldn't have parked in a street where you were at risk of being seen by people you knew".
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-07-26/rayney-trial-continues/4156946

"BLOOD or bodily fluids found on the back seat of Corryn Rayney's abandoned car seeped out after her death, her husband's murder trial has heard."
"
Prosecutor John Agius said on Wednesday that it was not the state's case that the blood was spilled in an assault, but that blood or bodily fluids leaked from her nose and mouth after her death.

The court has previously heard no blood was found at the couple's Como home, in Perth's south, where the prosecution claims Rayney killed his wife."
https://www.news.com.au/national/br...e/news-story/260833eacb5231fe5a1916ab21f82357
 
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Belnakor said:
it was not but it would have been a 20-30 minute job going flat out to dig such a hole in the sandy soil of kings park. It is possible they dug it on the night but with a body in the trunk thats pretty ballsy.
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Was video evidence not shown at his trial in which a very fit 20's something police officer dug the hole and it took him an hour or so? There was talk that police had an officer of LR build and age dig the hole and it took him so long that it blew out their timeline hence using the younger/fitter officer to dig it and present it evidence.

This evidence was basically laughed out of court.
 
 
freofc1994 said:
Was video evidence not shown at his trial in which a very fit 20's something police officer dug the hole and it took him an hour or so? There was talk that police had an officer of LR build and age dig the hole and it took him so long that it blew out their timeline hence using the younger/fitter officer to dig it and present it evidence.

This evidence was basically laughed out of court.
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Do you know freofc1994 if a shovel, pick or any digging equipment was ever found? Clumps of dirt from Kings Park found in Corryn's boot or interior?
 
shellyg said:
Do you know freofc1994 if a shovel, pick or any digging equipment was ever found? Clumps of dirt from Kings Park found in Corryn's boot or interior?
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Not to my knowledge, part of the evidence was a timeline that was presented to the court about how the murder, disposal, dumping of vehicle and return to home could have been achieved by LR without his daughters noticing that he wasn't at home.

WAPOL had to seriously doctor their evidence to make it possible, as stated at his trial he wasn't the fittest man, had history of back injuries and the route that he was meant to have taken home has some of the most comprehensive CCTV coverage of any roads in WA but they were unable to produce evidence of him on that route.
 
freofc1994 said:
Not to my knowledge, part of the evidence was a timeline that was presented to the court about how the murder, disposal, dumping of vehicle and return to home could have been achieved by LR without his daughters noticing that he wasn't at home.

WAPOL had to seriously doctor their evidence to make it possible, as stated at his trial he wasn't the fittest man, had history of back injuries and the route that he was meant to have taken home has some of the most comprehensive CCTV coverage of any roads in WA but they were unable to produce evidence of him on that route.
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Do you have a theory of what really might have happened?
 
shellyg said:
Do you have a theory of what really might have happened?
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No I don't really. There are obviously a few theories in regards to her murder. Personally I think LR is up to his neck in it, however DSS Lee shot from the hip (or should that be lip) and made the job of the DPP all the harder.

It should also be noted that the friends I have in WAPOL suggested to me that DSS Lee was part of the old style WAPOL detective (that they've largely tried to get rid of) where you got your target and you gathered everything to make that theory work.

That tunnel vision hasn't served WAPOL very well in some high profile cases.
 
Who would know none the cameras worked? Or pure stroke of luck someone took the path with no vision or recorded video. A hole at Kings park was dug that took hours right next to a suicide in the weeks prior. Police all over it.

"Detective Senior Sergeant Carlos Correia, who was in charge of the investigation into Ms Rayney's death, told the WA Supreme Court on Tuesday that no CCTV footage could be retrieved from the Narrows Bridge, which was the quickest route from the couple's home to her bushland grave site.

Det Sen Sgt Correia said cameras at Narrows Bridge weren't operating on the night of August 7, 2007, when the former Supreme Court registrar went missing after attending her weekly dance class.

The detective said there was limited useful footage from a petrol station and the Bentley community hall where Ms Rayney was last seen alive.

"Pollen expert Lynette Milne told the court on Tuesday that she believed Ms Rayney took her final breaths at Kings Park.

Dr Milne said if Ms Rayney was killed at her home, she would likely have some pollen from the property in her nasal passages.

However, she said it appeared that the only pollen present in Ms Rayney's nose came from Kings Park".

https://www.news.com.au/national/br...l/news-story/e9b303d8c8ccc723a987b49b01e355b2


Mr Agius argued these pods were from a tree in the Rayney's front yard and proved Mrs Rayney had been home the night she was attacked.

But this evidence is what Mr Edwardson claimed was likely planted by police as the pods went undetected during a preliminary examination of the body, "suspiciously" turning up later.

The prosecution case centred on motive, laying bare the details of the Rayneys' crumbling marriage, with affairs on both sides, gambling addiction and heated threats.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/judgment-day-rayney-murder-trial-20121101-28lqy.html
 
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