News Lloyd slams Buckley

[joesph]

It is becoming very clear that the ELITE midfield is not as ELITE as they thought .
They are sure being paid as elite midfielders

 

[joesph]

Reality is that in the past two weeks Boomer Harvey and Daniel Kerr has curved up the collingwood's ELITE midfield.
Buckley has no idea as how to coach players to bring out their best week after week.

 

[Vendrell]

Lloyd's spot on with his comments as he usually is. Glad to see most people in this thread agreeing with what he says and not being one-eyed. However, he didn't really "slam" Buckley.

Never hear him bagging Hird about Essendon.

Just saying...

Hird hasn't really done much wrong in his 2 seasons as coach. Lloyd did say on The Sunday Footy Show that Essendon's preseason was a complete failure because of their soft tissue injuries and they will definitely have to re-assess David Robinson's role aka "The Weapon".

 

[danielnajdek]

Lloyd's spot on with his comments as he usually is. Glad to see most people in this thread agreeing with what he says and not being one-eyed. However, he didn't really "slam" Buckley.
g


Hird hasn't really done much wrong in his 2 seasons as coach. Lloyd did say on The Sunday Footy Show that Essendon's preseason was a complete failure because of their soft tissue injuries and they will definitely have to re-assess David Robinson's role aka "The Weapon".

So excuses his old team because of injuries.

Haven't we had injuries as well. Last time I checked we did.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Excluding injuries and upheavals is too simplistic as well mmd, they have played their part.

Agreed - I did not discount them. I also agree that the recruiting focus should be on players with excellent foot and hand skills.

 

[jonbe54]

Agreed - I did not discount them. I also agree that the recruiting focus should be on players with excellent foot and hand skills.

Its pretty plain to see that apart from our core group of excellence we need to lift our disposal skills all around the ground. Buckley identified this early on, as you would expect and I expect a focus to shift in our recruiting now from role fillers to play makers. Taking this into account we might expect the odd miss now and then in the next year or two as we try to identify previously unidentified play makers and snare them with our picks which are necessarily later than lower finishing clubs.

 

[Pera]

So untrue it's not funny.

Would like to assign you some homework.

Watch the North AND West Coast games again, and actually take notice of the forward 50 entries. Explain to me why the smaller forwards almost all received perfectly good passes on the lead, yet Cloke and Dawes didn't. Is every Collingwood supporter on BigFooty suggesting that our midfield is purposely passing like shit to Cloke and Dawes?

Um, right, not sure where to start with this.

So you're saying, we have already trialled a smaller forward line structure, while both Dawes and Cloke were sitting in the F50. Wow, that seems like the same structure we have used all season, wouldn't you say?

The midfielders just seems to plonk the ball on Cloke and Dawes's head, seemingly because they are big and strong. If the get out kick was a forced option to someone on the lead, you think they would actually try and hit them up for a change? No, they'd probably go back to instinct and continue to bomb the ball forward to our small forwards.

And we hit up three, maybe four passes on the lead inside 50 on Saturday night. Rarely enough to win you a game of football. Maybe instead of making judgement on a couple of games, watch EVERY game and then come back to me.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Who did we take in the last draft with excellent disposal skills? Williams was a rookie, but his disposal skills are very ordinary. I cannot recall off the top of my head who else we recruited apart from Elliott whose foot skills are not elite. I would have thought that we would have started recruiting players who could dispose efficiently by foot last year. Sinclair has played lots of games but is another with very ordinary kicking skills. No matter how well these sort of guys play, their foot skills are liable to let them down.

 

[jonbe54]

Who did we take in the last draft with excellent disposal skills? Williams was a rookie, but his disposal skills are very ordinary. I cannot recall off the top of my head who else we recruited apart from Elliott whose foot skills are not elite. I would have thought that we would have started recruiting players who could dispose efficiently by foot last year. Sinclair has played lots of games but is another with very ordinary kicking skills. No matter how well these sort of guys play, their foot skills are liable to let them down.

Agree on recruiting to date mmd, perhaps there were no suitable prospects for us when our selections became live. We all know there are more than single factors in the recruiters minds. If they didn't feel they could recruit suitably skilled players with the selections available to us they may have decided to wait until the 'super draft' and just select role players.

In fairness role players may have worked out but for the problems we have had. What is worrying is a feeling of the playing group being unsettled, I wouldn't go as far as to say disunited but certainly unsettled.

 

[wicksy]

Agree on recruiting to date mmd, perhaps there were no suitable prospects for us when our selections became live. We all know there are more than single factors in the recruiters minds. If they didn't feel they could recruit suitably skilled players with the selections available to us they may have decided to wait until the 'super draft' and just select role players.

In fairness role players may have worked out but for the problems we have had. What is worrying is a feeling of the playing group being unsettled, I wouldn't go as far as to say disunited but certainly unsettled.

Yep.... My biggest worry too.
Let's cast our mind back to the start of the year when Wayne Carey was getting a pasting on this board for suggesting things were not right between players and coaching staff..... Doesn't seem to far fetched now. I'm not sure why he'd make it up to be honest.... Had to be some truth around it.

 

[jathanas]

Who did we take in the last draft with excellent disposal skills? Williams was a rookie, but his disposal skills are very ordinary. I cannot recall off the top of my head who else we recruited apart from Elliott whose foot skills are not elite. I would have thought that we would have started recruiting players who could dispose efficiently by foot last year. Sinclair has played lots of games but is another with very ordinary kicking skills. No matter how well these sort of guys play, their foot skills are liable to let them down.

Our recruiting is the reason we were able to snare Sinclair (rising star nomination), Keefe, Marley, Elliot etc. Those kids helped us win 10 in a row!

Our recent form has us examining the recruiting through different lenses.

I believe that you make a fair point about the disposal skills needed today. On the other hand I'm not sure how easily available players with elite disposal, elite endurance, elite standing vertical leap, and power to weight ratio would be.

Jokes aside, we've done a fair job this year, all things considered. It is unfortunate that we're staring at the business end of the season facing these form issues. How nice would it be to have a fit Ball and dare I say Keefe at the moment?

On a positive note, this season has helped us develop our depth. I'm drooling over the selection options available next year. Not that this season is finished by any means.

 

[jonbe54]

Yep.... My biggest worry too.
Let's cast our mind back to the start of the year when Wayne Carey was getting a pasting on this board for suggesting things were not right between players and coaching staff..... Doesn't seem to far fetched now. I'm not sure why he'd make it up to be honest.... Had to be some truth around it.

I'm not sure what is wrong but I don't necessarily believe its between players and staff. I get the (totally unsubstantiated) feeling its inside the playing group.

 

[Old Spice]

Buckley's been caught betwixt and between. Leroy leaving really screwed us. The Cloke saga has f*cked us, our injuries have done the same. And as two others pointed out earlier, we have tried MUCH more alternatives up forward than Lloyd is giving credit to.

Goldsack, Paine and Tarrant have been trialled to not enormous, but not terrible, effect. We're a victim of a list of talls which has been decimated. Keeffe might have been the get out clause as 2nd ruck, but in the absence of young Keeffe we've not had the option of a stay at home key forward. And to be honest we didn't have one pegged at the start of the season. Wood has been shit and no one yet can state, in spite of frustrations, who will replace Dawes. There's just nothing at hand and Cloke is playing like a zombie.

I've been a little amazed over the last few seasons the extent to which we emptied the team out. We were stretched thin for experience and under Mick the cupboard was left almost threadbare.

All Lloyd has done is state what's clear for all to see. I think he's a great commentator as well. But the facts are we need some very savage pruning and/or discussions with our players. I hate to think it, but if some players are not responding to Bucks, they need to receive some tough discussion or be tipped out.

 

[wicksy]

I'm not sure what is wrong but I don't necessarily believe its between players and staff. I get the (totally unsubstantiated) feeling its inside the playing group.

What gives you that impression?

 

[Old Spice]

Yep.... My biggest worry too.
Let's cast our mind back to the start of the year when Wayne Carey was getting a pasting on this board for suggesting things were not right between players and coaching staff..... Doesn't seem to far fetched now. I'm not sure why he'd make it up to be honest.... Had to be some truth around it.

Wayne Carey is a dog who has an axe to grind with Bucks for multiple reasons.

Thug of the highest order.

 

[jonbe54]

What gives you that impression?

There seems to be a drop off in playing roles for each other, as in running interference, running patterns etc to help their team mates to get clear enough to dispose well. Not as much enthusiasm with little successes, it just doesn't seem to be such a solid UNIT as we had in '10. As I said totally unsubstantiated but it feels a team less prepared to sacrifice for each other. This of course could be at least partially explained by the huge infusion of new players we have been forced into blooding this year though.

 

[Pennypacker]

"I'll tell you right now, if we drop Cloke and Dawes, it will only get uglier because can you imagine what a couple of inexperienced kids would be up against? It will be like lambs to the slaughter"

Not sure you can get any worse than 0 goals and a bunch of dropped chest marks 2 weeks in a row!

Dawes couldnt get a kick in a barn yard and Cloke is playing like he doesnt want to get injured.

Changes MUST be made this week.

Starting with Witts and Paine replacing Wood and Dawes. No better opponent to try out a debutant forward than Essendon. We have man handled their defence for years.

As big John Kennedy says "DON'T HOPE...DO!!!!!!!!

 

[obleex]

He's 100% right, but its not like everyone didn't already know this.

 

[SuperSub17]

There seems to be a drop off in playing roles for each other, as in running interference, running patterns etc to help their team mates to get clear enough to dispose well. Not as much enthusiasm with little successes, it just doesn't seem to be such a solid UNIT as we had in '10. As I said totally unsubstantiated but it feels a team less prepared to sacrifice for each other. This of course could be at least partially explained by the huge infusion of new players we have been forced into blooding this year though.

I think Bucks nailed it on the head in his presser, there doesn't seem to be the same belief there as what there was in 2010-11. Hopefully a confidence-boosting win this week might help that.

Btw how is Wayne Carey's relationship with North Melbourne going?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Agree on recruiting to date mmd, perhaps there were no suitable prospects for us when our selections became live. We all know there are more than single factors in the recruiters minds. If they didn't feel they could recruit suitably skilled players with the selections available to us they may have decided to wait until the 'super draft' and just select role players.

In fairness role players may have worked out but for the problems we have had. What is worrying is a feeling of the playing group being unsettled, I wouldn't go as far as to say disunited but certainly unsettled.

Peter Yagmoor is a player recruited for his disposal skills, although his VFL form has probably disappointed. I guess there are not that many players lower in the draft who can both kick and play. Keeffe is another player with excellent disposal skills, though recruited during MM's time at the club. Macaffer from memory is a decent kick. Hopefully, the draft this year will allow us to pick up some players with good foot skills.

 

[the distributer]

Time to scrap the Dawes ruck experiment, Dawes back to FF, cloke to CHF.

 

[SuperSub17]

Time to scrap the Dawes ruck experiment, Dawes back to FF, cloke to CHF.

What to do with the ruck?

But I agree, Dawes needs to play deeper.

 

[speedytiger]

Peter Yagmoor is a player recruited for his disposal skills, although his VFL form has probably disappointed. I guess there are not that many players lower in the draft who can both kick and play. Keeffe is another player with excellent disposal skills, though recruited during MM's time at the club. Macaffer from memory is a decent kick. Hopefully, the draft this year will allow us to pick up some players with good foot skills.

I remember it being a focus of ours last draft for getting players who were elite kicks but could also get their own pill. I think Bucks even mentioned it. Yagmoor looks a great kick style wise but it hasn't worked out that way yet.

 

[jonbe54]

I remember it being a focus of ours last draft for getting players who were elite kicks but could also get their own pill. I think Bucks even mentioned it. Yagmoor looks a great kick style wise but it hasn't worked out that way yet.

Play makers are harder to judge, especially if you don't have any high draft picks to spend. It's a bit of a lucky dip in the mid depth pick range to identify a likely play maker that others have overlooked.

 

[grokq]

So many reasons for the year we've had. One thing no one seems to mention in all of this is the upheaval caused by almost a completely new coaching panel. MM had seasoned asssistants in Neeld and Watters, and before that Brad Scott as well. Bucks only inherited Lappin, who I don't rate at all - our forwards have been going downhill ever since he got the job - notwithstanding our early 2011 dominance when the team was playing on belief, established patterns, etc etc.

People forget that MM wasn't able to paper over the cracks that appeared in 2011 when Jolly for injured, Didak fell off a cliff and we lost Daisy and Heater at a critical stage of the season. Reid's injury also exposed our backline in the last two finals. But we expect Bucks to deal with season-ending injuries to at least three players who were reasonably expected to be first 22 (Ball, Krak, Caff and throw in BJ). The depth players brough in to cover these losses have performed better than expected but, not surprisingly, they not "go to" players.

Now, as concerns our disposal skills, I believe we've been found out this year because there isn't enough assistance at the fall of the ball. When players ran to support better, players upfield would pass with more confidence and hit targets more often. Now, we're hanging onto the ball for longer because the options aren't as obvious. This has hurt Cloke and Dawes, especially earlier in the season, as their leads weren't honoured and they've had to double back. Basically, our manic running in 2010/2011 allowed us more options, which led to better disposal efficiency and better mopping up of miskicks.

I'm sure Bucks can see all of this. Getting the players to play as they were doing from last half of 2010 comes down to "want" from the players and I think MM's coaching team were all on the same page in pushing that message. Sadly, I think Bucks has an untested and less functional team. It may take another year for them to gel. Eade will probably go - good riddance. Get rid of Lappin in the off-season and get someone of the ilk of Cameron Ling or Scott Burns or Matty Lloyd or, geez there must be someone we can entice with all our money.