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Loitering

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dan warna said:
because once I start a tirade I wont stop.
I have nothing but good wishes for hte poor family who have to suffer through this trauma. and I feel nothing but love and sadness for a poor young life robbed of joy.

children should be playing at age 8, school holidays and all. This sits like a rock in my guts that this has happened.
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Being a Dad will do that to us hey
 
What a sick man. This man deserves to rot in prison for the rest of his life.

IMO deth penalty is not the answer but life withour parole is a better option.

My heart goes out to the family of this victim. Lets hope the family can get over this tragedy and the WA police can put this man behind bars forever.

Why would someone do such a thing?
 
Richo83 said:
What a sick man. This man deserves to rot in prison for the rest of his life.

IMO deth penalty is not the answer but life withour parole is a better option.

My heart goes out to the family of this victim. Lets hope the family can get over this tragedy and the WA police can put this man behind bars forever.

Why would someone do such a thing?
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The arse hole who did this was only 21 & lived with his parents.:mad:
 

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PerthCrow said:
I never picked you as one who would back away from his principles
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I won't. I'm as sickened as everyone else... but the answer is to never release this piece of human filth. My opposition to the death penalty is absolute and even when the kneejerk desire is for revenge, it is not the right thing to do.
 
dan warna said:
yeah part of me wants to use this thread to throw rocks at people I've hard arguements with over a number of issues with regard to children. But I chose not to.

Please dont raise the death penalty issue here,
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I think you need to go read your first post again (that'd be post #3). You'll soon realise it was actually you who brought up the death penalty.
 
CharlieG said:
I won't. I'm as sickened as everyone else... but the answer is to never release this piece of human filth. My opposition to the death penalty is absolute and even when the kneejerk desire is for revenge, it is not the right thing to do.
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Why are dogs put down when they attack people instead of locked up for life?
 
If we can apply a standard where certain living creatures can be killed because we choose to do so, such as they are a danger to society, I can't see any reason whatsover why we can't apply the same attitude towards people like this one.
 
NMWBloods said:
If we can apply a standard where certain living creatures can be killed because we choose to do so, such as they are a danger to society, I can't see any reason whatsover why we can't apply the same attitude towards people like this one.
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you should be able to see. It is a totally different situation, morally.
 

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NMWBloods said:
If we can apply a standard where certain living creatures can be killed because we choose to do so, such as they are a danger to society, I can't see any reason whatsover why we can't apply the same attitude towards people like this one.
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The death penalty becomes a tool of revenge, not justice. Plus, do we really want this guy to get off easily? I want this guy to be bashed in jail, then ron in there for the rest of his life. Killing him lets him off the hook. I'm sure there is plenty of inmates waiting for him. Killing him means we do parts of what he did to that girl to him, making us a eye for an eye society.

Death penalty cases cost alot more than just cases with a possibility of murder.

Do you think we should base our legal system on the way we treat dogs?

I think an adequate punishment is putting him in a high secruity prison for life without parole. As I said, let the jail systm take it's course, it usually weeds out these kinds of people anyway.
 
I admit I said to my wife that they should just take this guy out the back and shoot him.

It is the wrong thing to do. I am opposed to the death penalty for many reasons but it is extremely tempting to just start chanting "kill the bastard" in cases like this.
 
Leaving someone in jail, with the hope they get bashed, is also an act of revenge. I also don't see how locking someone up in the godawful environment of high security is any more kind or morally just than killing them.

Quite frankly I don't see the moral argument on no capital punishment for heinous crimes.

I don't believe in an inalienable right to life for people. There is absolutely no reason why there should be.

This person is the perfect example of that.

In what possible way is the life of this person to be valued more than say the life of a dog?

The comparison between life imprisonment and cost of a capital punishment trial is incorrect. It is normally done on a comparison to normal jail. Compare it to high security and the cost of life in jail becomes more expensive.
 
NMWBloods said:
Leaving someone in jail, with the hope they get bashed, is also an act of revenge. I also don't see how locking someone up in the godawful environment of high security is any more kind or morally just than killing them.
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I agree with the first line. The reason jails are in existence is because they are for reformation, not punishment.

Quite frankly I don't see the moral argument on no capital punishment for heinous crimes.

I don't believe in an inalienable right to life for people. There is absolutely no reason why there should be.

This person is the perfect example of that.

In what possible way is the life of this person to be valued more than say the life of a dog?

The comparison between life imprisonment and cost of a capital punishment trial is incorrect. It is normally done on a comparison to normal jail. Compare it to high security and the cost of life in jail becomes more expensive.
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There are several reasons for not using capital punishment (in no particular order):


1) There is no evidence that CP is a deterrent to others commiting crimes.
2) We are not animals (supposedly). We dont operate on a revenge based justice system.
3) As soon as you start killing citizens, it makes the state no better than those who it calls murderers.
4) The death penalty offers no second chance. You have to be 100% positive that the person you have actually did the deed. Unless you hold the idea that killing innocent people is ok?
 
otaku said:
I agree with the first line. The reason jails are in existence is because they are for reformation, not punishment.
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A problem arises when there is no chance of reforming someone. Then jail is purely for punishment or to protect society, which capital punishment will do better.

There are several reasons for not using capital punishment (in no particular order):

1) There is no evidence that CP is a deterrent to others commiting crimes.
2) We are not animals (supposedly). We dont operate on a revenge based justice system.
3) As soon as you start killing citizens, it makes the state no better than those who it calls murderers.
4) The death penalty offers no second chance. You have to be 100% positive that the person you have actually did the deed. Unless you hold the idea that killing innocent people is ok?
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I agree with (4), which is why I don't advocate the death penalty except in principle.

I disagree with (1)-(3) for essentially the reasons I have stated.
 
otaku said:
4) The death penalty offers no second chance. You have to be 100% positive that the person you have actually did the deed. Unless you hold the idea that killing innocent people is ok?
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Which then has the flow-on problem that if you decide you can't be sure to such a degree that the death penalty is an option, then you can't actually reach the burden of proof. Either the death penalty is available, or according to the law the perpetrator cannot be found guilty.

So in reality in order to support the death penalty you must endorse the death of people who are falsely convicted. This is the reality of the situation: in the United States alone someone is taken off death row because of failures with their conviction (new evidence, procedural problems etc) every twelve weeks or so. That's just the ones that are saved in time.
 

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NMWBloods said:
A problem arises when there is no chance of reforming someone. Then jail is purely for punishment or to protect society, which capital punishment will do better.


I agree with (4), which is why I don't advocate the death penalty except in principle.

I disagree with (1)-(3) for essentially the reasons I have stated.
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Can you clarify what you mean by this? Do you mean that you would not support the death penalty in practice?
 
NMWBloods said:
A problem arises when there is no chance of reforming someone. Then jail is purely for punishment or to protect society, which capital punishment will do better.
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It is a problem, but again, how do you decide when someone is no longer able to be reformed?

Is it them, or the techniques being used?

I agree with (4), which is why I don't advocate the death penalty except in principle.

I disagree with (1)-(3) for essentially the reasons I have stated.
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Can you show me anything that disproves (1)?
 
otaku said:
It is a problem, but again, how do you decide when someone is no longer able to be reformed?

Is it them, or the techniques being used?
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Depends on lots of factors. But when people advocate life imprisonment, such as they are with this guy, then they are de facto suggesting that he can't be reformed.

How does anyone know when someone is truly reformed and not going to re-offend?
Can you show me anything that disproves (1)?
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Whether it deters criminals or not I don't really care.
 
CharlieG said:
Can you clarify what you mean by this? Do you mean that you would not support the death penalty in practice?
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I would not be a strong advocate for its introduction, but at the same time I would not be violently opposing it.
 
my apologies for raising the issue of the death penalty.

I merely wish to record my outrage at this crime and my affection and support for the innocent victims.

cheers

Dan.
 

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