Injury Lonergan

[noclashjumpers]

2007 we had Egan, Harley, Scarlett, Mackie

OK, maybe Harley was still assigned the odd KP tall opponent. But predominantly played on smalls.

2008-Taylor, Harley, Scarlett, Mackie, ditto 2009

2008/9 Harley again played almost exclusively on smalls. So it's difficult argue he was the 3rd tall defender in the same restricted way that Lonegan is.

2010-Lonergan, Taylor, Scarlett, Mackie

For the first time we have 3 genuinely tall backs, in that they are primarily suited to, and play their best footy on, tall opponents.

To make it clear, what I'm arguing here is that Lonergan has not taken Harley's place in the BL, as they play(ed) two utterly different roles.

What it boils down to, is that Harley was far more versitle, while Lonergan isn't. Longergan's shtick is talls, while conversely Harley was used almost solely on smalls in the latter years.

So comparing this years BL to last, Hunt is the obvious one who's taken on that 'small opponent' mantle.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

In hindsight, do you want to retract that silly statement.

We were exposed for our lack of defensive height tonight, Carltons talls kicked their goals and taylor and scarlett weren't enough.
Their just wasn't another option.
Fortunately the rest played brilliantly.

Hmm, so Scarlett and Taylor have bad games and your solution to that problem is that bringing in a player who is inferior to both of them, and who makes it harder to get the ball out of our backline, will fix it?

How about instead just getting Scarlett and Taylor to play at their best in the finals. Revolutionary suggestion I know, but it might actually solve the problem.

 

[darren forssman]

Hmm, so Scarlett and Taylor have bad games and your solution to that problem is that bringing in a player who is inferior to both of them, and who makes it harder to get the ball out of our backline, will fix it?

and travis cloke always starts like a house on fire...i can remember last season when he marked anything near him in the first 15-20 mins and then faded away.

 

[meto]

Hmm, so Scarlett and Taylor have bad games and your solution to that problem is that bringing in a player who is inferior to both of them, and who makes it harder to get the ball out of our backline, will fix it?

How about instead just getting Scarlett and Taylor to play at their best in the finals. Revolutionary suggestion I know, but it might actually solve the problem.

And I suppose your in favor of one real ruckman against the big two, St Kilda and Collingwood.
I don't consider Hawkins as a second ruck, a fwd/on-baller, but not a real ruck like Blake or West, even Simpson at 206cm could be of value, probably should've had more exposure to senior football this year.
Worries me no backup talls in defense or ruck.
I know for sure Ottens won't go the finals distance on his own, and we have a finals experienced ruck in Blake, flirting with danger to leave him out also.

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

don't think Blakey will be playing against the Saints as he shot his mouth off to a couple of St Kilda players such as King when partying on Saturday night via mobile. Any added motivator for the Saints will not be risked so I reckon he'll miss this one and use Hawkins and Ottens as Gardner or King will not be 100% fit so even's out each way. Plus don't underestimate Hawkins for the first 10 rounds of the season he was better than excellent until he got that hot spot in his foot. Seen some improvement in the past 2 weeks and give him another week or 2 and he'll be firing again.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

and travis cloke always starts like a house on fire...i can remember last season when he marked anything near him in the first 15-20 mins and then faded away.

This directly contrasts his game against Adelaide last week when he was crap for 3 quarters and then bobbed up in the last to play a major part in the Pies winning...

Lonergan will play depending on structural preference ..... i.e. either Shannon Byrnes or Tom Lonergan. Expext Lonners vs the Saints and Pies though.

FB: Hunt, Scarlett, Milburn
HB: Mackie, Taylor, Enright
C: Wojack, Bartel, Kelly
HF: Johnson, Mooney, Varcoe
FF: Chapman, Pods, Stokes

Ruck: Ottens, Ablett, Selwood

Int: Hawkins, Corey, Lonergan, Ling

 

[bobbycatsfanme]

dunno if Lonergan is in the best 22. If taylor hunt keeps producing he may take his spot.

 

[noclashjumpers]

It seems to me the safest option is to play 6 talls up back. Just in case.

Blake Scarlett West
Lonergan Taylor Ottens

 

[darren forssman]

will ross lyon name an extra tall forward just in case the arian doesnt fire?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

don't think Blakey will be playing against the Saints as he shot his mouth off to a couple of St Kilda players such as King when partying on Saturday night via mobile. Any added motivator for the Saints will not be risked so I reckon he'll miss this one and use Hawkins and Ottens as Gardner or King will not be 100% fit so even's out each way. Plus don't underestimate Hawkins for the first 10 rounds of the season he was better than excellent until he got that hot spot in his foot. Seen some improvement in the past 2 weeks and give him another week or 2 and he'll be firing again.

Even if I believed your story, he will play against the Saints with Pods out, we have no alternative tall replacement. End story.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

And I suppose your in favor of one real ruckman against the big two, St Kilda and Collingwood.
I don't consider Hawkins as a second ruck, a fwd/on-baller, but not a real ruck like Blake or West, even Simpson at 206cm could be of value, probably should've had more exposure to senior football this year.
Worries me no backup talls in defense or ruck.
I know for sure Ottens won't go the finals distance on his own, and we have a finals experienced ruck in Blake, flirting with danger to leave him out also.

You're confusing different things, since I was talking about Lonners.

Conventional wisdom says you need 2 tall defenders and 2 ruckmen. If Blake plays, it's as a second ruckman. If Lonergan plays, it's as a third tall defender.

You can't compare the two as if they were equivalent.

FWIW I am in the 'second real ruck' camp.

 

[meto]

Don't worry fellas news is in Pods has been hit with a two match suspension, Lonergan might find himself up the other end of the ground.
Two weeks for Pods, what a ripoff!

Thanks Pure for the Real Ruck support, but Hawkins is looking great around the midfield providing a sizable target and impact, could he be used midfield/HF?
If we don't play 3 tall fwds where does he fit, coz I reckon he's so valuable.
His goalsquare mark last week was shear strength v Carlton.
He had the presence of mind to get there quickly, that also impressed me, I think his form is on the up.

 

[darren forssman]

Don't worry fellas news is in Pods has been hit with a two match suspension, Lonergan might find himself up the other end of the ground.

surely ottens comes back in, blake goes back to being second banana and hawk goes back to being a forward.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

surely ottens comes back in, blake goes back to being second banana and hawk goes back to being a forward.

For now, yes.

Don't worry fellas news is in Pods has been hit with a two match suspension, Lonergan might find himself up the other end of the ground.
Two weeks for Pods, what a ripoff!

Thanks Pure for the Real Ruck support, but Hawkins is looking great around the midfield providing a sizable target and impact, could he be used midfield/HF?
If we don't play 3 tall fwds where does he fit, coz I reckon he's so valuable.
His goalsquare mark last week was shear strength v Carlton.
He had the presence of mind to get there quickly, that also impressed me, I think his form is on the up.

If we play Lonergan as a forward EVER again I will personally go and shake Bomber myself.

Pods susp sucks but it's life, at least we only have to do without him for the one final.

In regards to your comments about Hawkins, he doesn't really 'fit' as the third tall as I think Bomber's made clear we'll play 4 talls in the GF, should we get there. Hence because Bomber loves him I believe he's slightly ahead of Blake, and Blake's the one most likely to miss out when Pods comes back given the LIFO principle. One of the most fascinating aspects of the Saints game will be watching Blake and Hawkins and who puts their nose in front in the battle for the one spot.

Personally I prefer 22 real ruckmen, but you can understand why Pods is wanted to be in due to being our best mark, and you can understand why Hawk is wanted to be in given his all round abilities as you highlight, hence I think Bomber's intention is to leave Blake out if we can make it work without him (which relies upon Ottens being able to carry the majority of the load). The coach showed his hand on that a couple of weeks ago, and keep in mind that Blake is only playing because Ottens was ill, and is only now staying because Pods is suspended, so there's nothing to indicate Bomber has changed his mind on his previous stance.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

The big issue we face IMO is related to Harry Taylor's aerobic capacity. He simply cannot match the work rate of either Cloke or Reiwoldt for four quarters. It means Mackie or Milburn will spend time on them which is not ideal though Mackie has had some success on Reiwoldt.

Interesting. It was Reiwoldt who blew the game open in the first half for them. Lonergan has gone onto players that Taylor has struggled with. Didn't have that option last night. And Byrnes played poorly.

 

[meto]

Interesting. It was Reiwoldt who blew the game open in the first half for them. Lonergan has gone onto players that Taylor has struggled with. Didn't have that option last night. And Byrnes played poorly.

How many times I've gone into bat for Lonergan when the idiot knockers have ridiculed him even when he's played well, shutting out some of the best CHF's this year.

And the genius's that say we carn't be to tall! well boys, fact is we're to short, we got no backup talls and we're out of the contest if the ball's in the air.

The Saints were to big and strong when it mattered, learn the lesson!!!!

Have a look at Harry Taylor........ I wouldn't say he's built like Glen Jakovich, at least Lonergan's 100+ kgs.
Taylor's built like Mackie forgoodnessake, open your eyes people!

 

[darren forssman]

How many times I've gone into bat for Lonergan when the idiot knockers have ridiculed him even when he's played well, shutting out some of the best CHF's this year.

And the genius's that say we carn't be to tall! well boys, fact is we're to short, we got no backup talls and we're out of the contest if the ball's in the air.

The Saints were to big and strong when it mattered, learn the lesson!!!!

you honestly believe lonergan in or out was the difference?

not even your herculean man would have made a difference with the way the ball was going into the saints forward 50 in the first half.

 

[meto]

you honestly believe lonergan in or out was the difference?

not even your herculean man would have made a difference with the way the ball was going into the saints forward 50 in the first half.

You never learn, do you!!!!!!!

Lonergan is the only genuine CHB sized player we have, has played v well this year, always plays hard and with courage, are you nutts!!!

Harry's built like Mackie, a flanker, how simply can I put it.

We were out muscled early on, not out played, but that's what made the difference in the end. We lost.

 

[darren forssman]

You never learn, do you!!!!!!!

Lonergan is the only genuine CHB sized player we have, has played v well this year, always plays hard and with courage, are you nutts!!!

Harry's built like Mackie, a flanker, how simply can I put it.

We were out muscled early on, not out played, but that's what made the difference in the end. We lost.

you never cease to amaze....agile flanker taylor couldnt keep up with roo but the plodding genuine chb sized player could.

i think you're nuts for suggesting the game came down to this one match up.

 

[meto]

you never cease to amaze....agile flanker taylor couldnt keep up with roo but the plodding genuine chb sized player could.

i think you're nuts for suggesting the game came down to this one match up.

It was the major contributing factor that setup the game their way, Roo isn't flamin Usain Bolt!!
He also carries a lot of weight, he's pretty big.
Harry was just was caught off balance and under the ball.
As I've said he's a bit light of frame against the big bodied forwards.
And he was last night. Wasn't He????????

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Bulldust. Riewoldt thrashed Taylor because he has a much bigger aerobic tank and blew him up on repeat lead after repeat lead. Lonergan would have done no better in that respect.

 

[darren forssman]

It was the major contributing factor that setup the game their way, Roo isn't flamin Usain Bolt!!
He also carries a lot of weight, he's pretty big.
Harry was just was caught off balance and under the ball.
As I've said he's a bit light of frame against the big bodied forwards.
And he was last night. Wasn't He????????

maybe with his right arm lonners would have stopped roo and with his left arm he would have stopped milne.

if we are talking marks inside 50, then roo ran into space with perfect delivery from the midfield/forwards. maybe with a bit of pressure that would not have happened.

you want to read why we lost it then check this thread:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=751678&page=1

 

[meto]

Bulldust. Riewoldt thrashed Taylor because he has a much bigger aerobic tank and blew him up on repeat lead after repeat lead. Lonergan would have done no better in that respect.

Much Bigger Aerobic Tank, crap! that's a myth my friend, its a lot to do with delivery from their mids, and our lack of pressure, and Harrys lack of weight/strength compared to Reiwolt, he was probably a bit loose as well.

With Riewolts size and build I doubt he'll out run Harry over a 5000 metres cross-country course, and if he could, Geelong should immediatly sack their fitness/ training coach. Harrys' aerobic running abilities should be first class for an AFL footballer, given his athletic build. Why wouldn't it be, I'm sure Geelongs running coaches are from an athletics background, and measure their results against other codes and AFL parameters at least.

So, so much for the tank crap, its more to do with reading the game, and being more aggressive at the contest I'd say.
And pure size when toe to toe.

Having said that: The midfield has alot to answer for, I know!

 

[Sweetie]

I never thought it, but Lonergan is 'crucial' to our defence going forward! He plays on Kossie the dud, which frees up Scarlett to play as third tall, which helps Taylor in covering Riewoldt when needed. He isnt the most talented player we have, but when he comes up on par or slightly in front of his opponent like he has this year generally, Scarlett has been allowed more freedom to read off the play and get into good defensive areas. Will be crucial in games against sides like the pies with Brown, Cloke etc, that Scarlett can dictate where he plays, rather than be one out with a key forward all night. So bring back Lonners!

 

[meto]

I never thought it, but Lonergan is 'crucial' to our defence going forward! He plays on Kossie the dud, which frees up Scarlett to play as third tall, which helps Taylor in covering Riewoldt when needed. He isnt the most talented player we have, but when he comes up on par or slightly in front of his opponent like he has this year generally, Scarlett has been allowed more freedom to read off the play and get into good defensive areas. Will be crucial in games against sides like the pies with Brown, Cloke etc, that Scarlett can dictate where he plays, rather than be one out with a key forward all night. So bring back Lonners!

Hooray!!!!