Looking ahead

[TOPBLUE_25]

To the dicks saying "trade Gibbs is stupid" - do you understand context? I said we should look at it depending on the offer - everyone is tradeabe.

If we gave up Gibbs for two first round picks from GC and then traded a first round pick for Roughy (he is unconctracted), Hampson plus first round for Boak and Trengove you wouldn't do that?

Gibbs and Hampson for Boak, Trengove and Roughy - a forward line of Henderson, Trengove and Roughy sets us up for 5 years plus of goals (add smalls in Yarran and Betts and in 2 years close to best forward line in the comp). Waite goes back and our backline is fantastic.

Then a midfield of Judd, Murphy, Lucas, Simpson, Boak etc.

Likely to get a trade acceptable for Gibbs - no. But if we did...

This trade scenario is very silly

 

[JuddFevGoal]

If I was President of the CFC I would change the culture of the club by implementing each of the following on Monday morning:

1. A drinking ban for all of the year except for the 8 week player break and one week over Christmas. Even then no more than 3 drinks in one 24 hour period. Alcohol does not aid recovery, leads to off field incidents and when players are paid 200k plus in their early 20s they should be doing everything they can to get the best out of their body. That ban applies to the President, the Coach and other key staff. If you don't like it - go to another club. I note when the Lions won in 01 it was on the back of a drinking ban that was gradually lifted as the culture of the group was brought under control. A similar thing could happen over time. Right now we have to many piss heads.

2. Mandatory weekly boxing and wrestling sessions for all players. Get some toughness in the squad, if we lose a few to injury in the short term tough. We aren't winning a flag this year or next.

3. A three times weekly "football skills" lecture series. Bring in past greats and guest lecturers to go through things like tactics, nutrition etc. Our guys need to be taught the academics of football. Obviously make this as practical as possible. Also go into the history of the club - they should be taught to live and breathe Carlton.

4. 5 times a week skills session. You walk, eat, sleep and shit with a football in your hands. Back to basics on kicking, handpassing etc. No excuses.

5. Each player would be linked to a specific primary school in the area. Like the old "adopt a cop" scheme. The players go to the school every few weeks and talk with the kids, go to watch some of their junior games etc. Get them re-understanding the passion of the average child footy fan. This gets lost in this professional era.

Swann is a great CEO - nothing to change there.

But the culture of the club needs changing - that is the Presidents job.

Not sure about Swann.

He should have been visible when Fev was sacked and not hid behind Sticks and Ratten. Neither of them looked emotionally comfortable with the situation.

The decision should've been clearly explained to the membership base (currently 6000 down on last year by the way which is a disaster).

Not impressed.

Brisbane's recruiting is materializing as top notch. Ours looks like we are going backwards at the speed of light.

We don't have a single forward who can make a lead, take a mark and kick a friggin goal. It doesn't have to be Fev, just anyone that has talent and can be properly trained. I would put faith in Lachie and Waite and play them in that position constantly to give the midfield some regular targets, because it's a dog's breakfast in the forward line.

My prediction? Carlton 10th-14th. Brisbane top 4.

Honestly, it feels like 2005 again, except this time with no gun full forward.

 

[Silvagnis]

The following is yet another silly post by a another recidivist who thinks Fevola had to stay...

Not sure about Swann.

He should have been visible when Fev was sacked and not hid behind Sticks and Ratten. Neither of them looked emotionally comfortable with the situation.

The decision should've been clearly explained to the membership base (currently 6000 down on last year by the way which is a disaster).

Not impressed.

Brisbane's recruiting is materializing as top notch. Ours looks like we are going backwards at the speed of light.

We don't have a single forward who can make a lead, take a mark and kick a friggin goal. It doesn't have to be Fev, just anyone that has talent and can be properly trained. I would put faith in Lachie and Waite and play them in that position constantly to give the midfield some regular targets, because it's a dog's breakfast in the forward line.

My prediction? Carlton 10th-14th. Brisbane top 4.

Honestly, it feels like 2005 again, except this time with no gun full forward.

They beat us by 19 points without Bower and Judd off the back of a great game by Brown.

Our midfield and rucks violated their highly rated Brisbane counterparts...

Great recruiting after Henderson and O'hAilpin kicked seven goals against their backline.

Dumb post.

 

[Dramoth]

Yet ratt's has not spoken to Fev, is it just me or does that scream gutless and lack of leadership from him.

Culture is never shown in words it is all about action and leading from the front, doing, acting going hard at everything you do. I do not see this at the club. the only person that seems to be doing his job is Swan.

It is probably just you... I know that when I am disappointed by someone who I placed a lot of trust in, it takes a long time for me to start talking to that person again.

And when that person shits on you as comprehensively as Fev did, then it might take a lot longer to get over it than you would think.

I had a really good friend a few years ago... we did a shitload of stuff together and we always hanging out together. I even saved him from getting his nose broken one night outside a popular night club in Perth by some guy who he antagonised by making a stupid comment. The a few years ago the guy shit all over me by doing something really dumb that caused me a lot of grief... I am still sort of friends with him, but there is no where near the same level of trust there any more and I hardly speak with him any more.

similar sort of comparison really...

 

[jono25]

The following is yet another silly post by a another recidivist who thinks Fevola had to stay...

They beat us by 19 points without Bower and Judd off the back of a great game by Brown.

Our midfield and rucks violated their highly rated Brisbane counterparts...

Great recruiting after Henderson and O'hAilpin kicked seven goals against their backline.

Dumb post.

The problem with our key forwards is the marks come from broken play or things like kicks along the ground. Very rarely do we see a key forward lead, mark and goal.

If only we could merge our list with Brisbane's list, we complement each other so well!

 

[JuddFevGoal]

The following is yet another silly post by a another recidivist who thinks Fevola had to stay...

They beat us by 19 points without Bower and Judd off the back of a great game by Brown.

Our midfield and rucks violated their highly rated Brisbane counterparts...

Great recruiting after Henderson and O'hAilpin kicked seven goals against their backline.

Dumb post.

If you think O'hAilpin seriously has the skills to make a top notch full forward, then that's your prerogative.

We lost a game that we won twice last year.

Last week, our forward line was shameful. No leads. Nothing for the mids to kick to.

Judd shouldn't have been required to beat Essendon.

I watched the game last weekend with an ex-premiership player who said our forward line was a shambles.

As I suggested, put some development into Waite and Lachie as leading forwards, they at least show some talent for it.

Carlos just can't take a mark and he's wobbly on a set shot. He's into his late 20's. I love his endeavor but we can't wait for someone who just isn't showing any solid skills as a forward.

You can keep making excuses for a dysfunctional forward line for as long as you like but when we're 8 and 2, and Brisbane are 8 and 6, who's really fooling themselves here?

Is that going to convince those 6000 members who have deserted the club to rejoin?

 

[incog43]

Jono, I think ODN invited Biff about this time last year to make a post with regard to where we are at.

As a matter of interest thrw up the option of Trading Gibbs for a possible key forward, nothing to do with Gibbs talent, just a needs vs wants analysis, I believe he considered Gibbs to be a luxury, when obvious needs would soon be become apparent elsewhere.

This was way prior to Fev moving on.

It would be a difficult trade to make from a blues perspective, but its one that does hold some merit, even more so now.

Its interesting to get a perspective from an outsider looking in, and how their perceptions differ to our own.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

Gibbs has been shutting down opp players which always goes unnoticed.

 

[JuddFevGoal]

The problem with our key forwards is the marks come from broken play or things like kicks along the ground. Very rarely do we see a key forward lead, mark and goal.

100% correct.

 

[blue gunslinger]

Jono, I think ODN invited Biff about this time last year to make a post with regard to where we are at.

As a matter of interest thrw up the option of Trading Gibbs for a possible key forward, nothing to do with Gibbs talent, just a needs vs wants analysis, I believe he considered Gibbs to be a luxury, when obvious needs would soon be become apparent elsewhere.

This was way prior to Fev moving on.

It would be a difficult trade to make from a blues perspective, but its one that does hold some merit, even more so now.

Its interesting to get a perspective from an outsider looking in, and how their perceptions differ to our own.

when Biff starts making sense he has a motive!

 

[Dramoth]

If you think O'hAilpin seriously has the skills to make a top notch full forward, then that's your prerogative.

We lost a game that we won twice last year.

Last week, our forward line was shameful. No leads. Nothing for the mids to kick to.

Judd shouldn't have been required to beat Essendon.

I watched the game last weekend with an ex-premiership player who said our forward line was a shambles.

As I suggested, put some development into Waite and Lachie as leading forwards, they at least show some talent for it.

Carlos just can't take a mark and he's wobbly on a set shot. He's into his late 20's. I love his endeavor but we can't wait for someone who just isn't showing any solid skills as a forward.

You can keep making excuses for a dysfunctional forward line for as long as you like but when we're 8 and 2, and Brisbane are 8 and 6, who's really fooling themselves here?

Is that going to convince those 6000 members who have deserted the club to rejoin?

Mate... the final figures for memberships are based on the figure at the end of June (I think that it is June) and we are currently sitting at approximately the same level as at this time last year. We might be a couple of hundred down but not 6000.

As for Carlos... he currently has the same number of goals as our ex-FF and has only missed 5 shots on goals as opposed to Fev's 11.

He is also our leading goal scorer at present so who is to say he isnt showing that he is a good FF. The next best goal scorer at the club is fast eddie... with 5 goals 10 behinds... and Eddie is supposed to be the guy who was supposed to step up and be the one kicking the goals!

I saw Setanta leading all over the place, but the mids were shocking in their delivery into the forward line and were just bombing it in and ignoring leads. So I guess from your point of view, that has to be Setanta's fault then?

Setanta wont be a great FF for us, but he will be a very servicable one for us for the next few years.

 

[incog43]

when Biff starts making sense he has a motive!

 

[JuddFevGoal]

The following is yet another silly post by a another recidivist who thinks Fevola had to stay...

FYI, 'recidivist' means a criminal who continually re-offends. Nothing to do with looking backwards... If you'd used it about Fev and not me, it might have made some sense. As my mum always says, if you're gonna use the big words, look them up first...

On that issue though, I'd be comfortable with the decision to dump one of the 5 best full forwards in the last decade, if there was any hint of a forward structure to take us into the next 5 years. Sadly (and I don't count the Richmond game), we're yet to see that plan.

 

[Onlyanopinion]

If the year pans out as I think it will, we will be somewhere between 10-12 on the ladder. We will have some ok players as potential trade bait eg Walker, Hampson (depends on offer, still think he can be a star), Houlihan, Grigg etc.

Not popular but I also think we should consider trading Gibbs for the right price.

It is time to think about exactly who we could make a big play for in trade week or through the draft. The obvious missing links are a gun forward and a great defender.

In terms of the great defender if it was at all possible I would be targetting Tayte Pears. I was so impressed with him last night - he was unbelievable. I must add I think Jamison is capable of being in the top 5 FBs in the league and Bower will be the best CHB in 3 years time (injuries permitting). But adding someone of the class of Pears would add a new dimension to our defence.

As a forward target the obvious is Roughead. If that is not possible (and it is unlikely at best) then I think we need to look very closely at someone like Trengove from Port. He will be a very very good player in 3-4 years time.

Why trade Gibbs? I think he is a great player but we have a lot of great finishers in Judd, Murphy, Simpson, Lucas (will be a star) etc. You have to give something big to get something big and trading Gibbs and Hampson may be a way of getting a Pears, Trengove and another hard bodied mid to the club.

Realistically until we get a quality tagger (and we may be able to develop someone like Russell or Browne in this role), another great defender (sorry but I don't think Austin is it) and a key forward to go with Henderson, we can't win 17

It is time to make the hard cuts both in the coaches box and the playing list.

Stopped reading when you said we should look at trading Gibbs...

 

[jono25]

Stopped reading when you said we should look at trading Gibbs...

Then why bother to take the time to reply if you aren't willing to engage on the logic of the post?

You must have lots of free time on your hand or lack the intelligence to engage in an adult discussion.

Again, I am not saying we must trade Gibbs, I am saying lets consider our list and ways to improve it.

 

[jono25]

The following is yet another silly post by a another recidivist who thinks Fevola had to stay...

They beat us by 19 points without Bower and Judd off the back of a great game by Brown.

Our midfield and rucks violated their highly rated Brisbane counterparts...

Great recruiting after Henderson and O'hAilpin kicked seven goals against their backline.

Dumb post.

They also came of a 5 day break having played the first game of the year. We had 7 days.

Do you ever stop making excuses?

 

[jono25]

FYI, 'recidivist' means a criminal who continually re-offends. Nothing to do with looking backwards... If you'd used it about Fev and not me, it might have made some sense. As my mum always says, if you're gonna use the big words, look them up first...

On that issue though, I'd be comfortable with the decision to dump one of the 5 best full forwards in the last decade, if there was any hint of a forward structure to take us into the next 5 years. Sadly (and I don't count the Richmond game), we're yet to see that plan.

Totally agree re the intelligence (or lack there of) of the former poster and also Fev. Seeing how well Fev is doing at Brisbane well....

 

[ESKIE]

I would like a fixture that allows us to play Richmond 3 or 4 times a year.


Thank you

 

[Onlyanopinion]

Then why bother to take the time to reply if you aren't willing to engage on the logic of the post?

You must have lots of free time on your hand or lack the intelligence to engage in an adult discussion.

Again, I am not saying we must trade Gibbs, I am saying lets consider our list and ways to improve it.

Your right, i should have said "i should have stopped reading when the poster suggested trading Gibbs..."

Why would someone entertain trading Gibbs, potentially our next captain and in 2/3 years time should be an elite of the league, when in return, as suggested by the poster, we should look to get a Pears/Trengrove/ more draft picks/ combination, who could have not nearly half the potential impact on our club in the next 10 years as Gibbs... improving our list? please....

 

[Salaryman]

FYI, 'recidivist' means a criminal who continually re-offends. Nothing to do with looking backwards... If you'd used it about Fev and not me, it might have made some sense. As my mum always says, if you're gonna use the big words, look them up first...

On that issue though, I'd be comfortable with the decision to dump one of the 5 best full forwards in the last decade, if there was any hint of a forward structure to take us into the next 5 years. Sadly (and I don't count the Richmond game), we're yet to see that plan.

Actually it's from the French word for relapse....it's common use is for criminals, but I see no issue with it being used more liberally (i.e. one who relapses, reoffends)

 

[JuddFevGoal]

Actually it's from the French word for relapse....it's common use is for criminals, but I see no issue with it being used more liberally (i.e. one who relapses, reoffends)

It's not French, it's from latin like the majority of legal terms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism

Anyone who's done a law degree or even Legal Studies knows the word well. It means habitual relapse into crime, or substance abuse.

As I said before, in reference to Fev himself, it might make some sense. But directed at posters arguing that Fev should not have been traded, it is meaningless.

Who are you anyway? The General's mum?

 

[jono25]

Your right, i should have said "i should have stopped reading when the poster suggested trading Gibbs..."

Why would someone entertain trading Gibbs, potentially our next captain and in 2/3 years time should be an elite of the league, when in return, as suggested by the poster, we should look to get a Pears/Trengrove/ more draft picks/ combination, who could have not nearly half the potential impact on our club in the next 10 years as Gibbs... improving our list? please....

Agreed if my potential trade had said we get Pears and Trengrove - bad idea.

But the way I worked it was we'd give up Hampson and Gibbs for Roughead, Trengove and Boak. Unrealistic? Possibly. But if we could get that trade would you say no? You would be stupid to rule it out.

Before you say "that will never happen" - two years ago would you have seen Carlton trading Fev for pick 12 and Henerson (and giving pick 27 in return)?

If you want to play at the grown ups table try and read the whole post first....

 

[jono25]

Actually it's from the French word for relapse....it's common use is for criminals, but I see no issue with it being used more liberally (i.e. one who relapses, reoffends)

You are an english professor at which University?

 

[incog43]

There are growns ups here

 

[Stamos]

On that issue though, I'd be comfortable with the decision to dump one of the 5 best full forwards in the last decade, if there was any hint of a forward structure to take us into the next 5 years. Sadly (and I don't count the Richmond game), we're yet to see that plan.

You really think Fev could have given us a good forward structure for the next 5 years? No good being reliant on a single 33 year old.
It was a good trade. Henderson has all the makings of a good CHF.