Player Watch Mason Cox

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First game back after months of no playing, against a quality defender in Davis, in slippery conditions not suited to big men. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I thought he slowly worked his way into the game by the last quarter, kicking a goal and taking a big clunk. But that was mainly after Davis went off.

I'm not his biggest fan, but i still think he serves a purpose structurally. Let's hope Friday night was just blowing off some cobwebs
 
For mine we need to leave him at deep forward and bring Cameron into the side. I was strong against Cameron being dropped, despite the 2 disposal game, because I think he provides much more of a contest then Cox and doesn't get pushed under the ball as much. I would look at bringing in Cameron for WHE, and making his role focusing mainly getting up the ground and being the target down the line, which our coaching panel loves having and keeping Cox at Full Forward for the whole game. Cameron can switch into the ruck to chop our Brodie otherwise he basically plays that HFF role where he can be a target down the line for us (and at least make a contest) while letting us have a genuine marking target I50, as well as setting up around the 50-60m from our goal and stopping those quick hack kicks out of our defense.

For mine that makes Mason have to compete with someone like Kelly for that full forward role, and releases Mihocek to return to that hard running 3rd tall role that he does best. Having Cox at Full Forward permanently would create so much room for Elliot, Stephenson and De Goey to work with as defenders will naturally be drawn to the main focal point being Mason.
 
Johno9911 said:
For mine we need to leave him at deep forward and bring Cameron into the side. I was strong against Cameron being dropped, despite the 2 disposal game, because I think he provides much more of a contest then Cox and doesn't get pushed under the ball as much. I would look at bringing in Cameron for WHE, and making his role focusing mainly getting up the ground and being the target down the line, which our coaching panel loves having and keeping Cox at Full Forward for the whole game. Cameron can switch into the ruck to chop our Brodie otherwise he basically plays that HFF role where he can be a target down the line for us (and at least make a contest) while letting us have a genuine marking target I50, as well as setting up around the 50-60m from our goal and stopping those quick hack kicks out of our defense.

For mine that makes Mason have to compete with someone like Kelly for that full forward role, and releases Mihocek to return to that hard running 3rd tall role that he does best. Having Cox at Full Forward permanently would create so much room for Elliot, Stephenson and De Goey to work with as defenders will naturally be drawn to the main focal point being Mason.
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Be way too top heavy.
 

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Seedsfan said:
Be way too top heavy.
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Potentially they could be if they were playing in the same forward line, however I think the point would be not to have them doing so.

We clearly need a reliable target down the line to kick too coming out of defense, just as much as we need one inside 50. One of Cox and Cameron can't be in 2 places at the same time, so I think our best option is to play both and keep them far apart enough around the ground that the lack of speed coming out of the back half is nullified a bit. We would need a lot of defensive pressure from the likes of Stephenson, Elliot, Brown x2, Varcoe etc however I think we should be expecting that from them regardless of how many big guys are playing anyway.

As an aside, Cameron I don't think is a slouch in terms mobility, and he's shown that he's prepared to work hard and apply pressure. To put it in comparison Cameron had more tackles against St Kilda alone than Hoskin-Elliot has had all season.
 
Johno9911 said:
Potentially they could be if they were playing in the same forward line, however I think the point would be not to have them doing so.

We clearly need a reliable target down the line to kick too coming out of defense, just as much as we need one inside 50. One of Cox and Cameron can't be in 2 places at the same time, so I think our best option is to play both and keep them far apart enough around the ground that the lack of speed coming out of the back half is nullified a bit. We would need a lot of defensive pressure from the likes of Stephenson, Elliot, Brown x2, Varcoe etc however I think we should be expecting that from them regardless of how many big guys are playing anyway.

As an aside, Cameron I don't think is a slouch in terms mobility, and he's shown that he's prepared to work hard and apply pressure. To put it in comparison Cameron had more tackles against St Kilda alone than Hoskin-Elliot has had all season.
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I get your point just think the days of two lumbering forwards are over.

Also with you point on WHE he is an outside player Cameron will lay all his tackles at the contest where WHE will apply pressure when teams are trying to run and spread
 
The challenge with Cox is that the guys upfield need to kick the ball perfectly for him to have a run at it. He lacks physical strength, positioning and flexibility. However, we get it in front of him and he is a nightmare for the opposition.
 
I have long believed that Mason should be working from the goal square and Checkers should be at CHF ( at least until Kelly is ready ). Mason at the top of the square would attract more defenders than a nightsoil cart could attract flies. De Goey and Stepho get the flanks and Billy combined with one of Daics / T. Brown / J.T. in the pockets. Keeping Mason deep, either at the top of the square or on a short, sharp lead, 7 defenders won’t be enough to contain them all. Checkers is better in all aspects of the game ( barring the high flying speccie ) than 1990 premiership CHF Starcevich, so I don’t have any doubts that Checkers could do the job we need him to.
All of this is of course, reliant on the mids, on ballers and halfbacks, delivering the ball in such a way that maximises the potential strength of the forward line.
With the talent we have across the field, our strategists should able to come up with a series of set plays,so that our halfbacks, mids or on ballers know at a glance, which set play the forwards are working and move the ball accordingly.
Sounds to simple ? With the forward line that we have, it could actually be that simple. Masons’ size, appetite for improvement, willingness to sacrifice his stats for the team benefit and work ethic could provide the vital cog to the football machine that we all dream of.
just a thought.
 
Seedsfan said:
It was the big freeze 4 you are thinking of. Very open and attacking game for context McDonald kicked 6 Stevo and WHE with 4 each.

You speak of ANZAC day he has kicked 5 goals across 4 games. Didn’t show he was a match winner in any of them
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Are your serious? He kicks five goals and gets BOG and you still try to suggest it was only because it was a goalfest! That rules out all of the champion full forwards of past eras. To think we raved about McKenna when he kicked bags of 12 or more. As for Dunstall, Hudson and Lockett-they played in an era when I could have kicked a bag every week. Open high scoring footy apparently leads to duds kicking lots of goals.

Cox has been incredibly valuable in many games and to suggest otherwise indicates a bllnkered biased personal agenda. He has had a few shockers too. It's rare to find a player whose never had some very poor games. When Wayne Carey said during the prelim in 2018 that Cox had a shocker in round one against the Hawks but played consistently good footy for the rest of the season that's good enough for me. If I'm wrong I'm in very good company,
 
domus said:
Are your serious? He kicks five goals and gets BOG and you still try to suggest it was only because it was a goalfest! That rules out all of the champion full forwards of past eras. To think we raved about McKenna when he kicked bags of 12 or more. As for Dunstall, Hudson and Lockett-they played in an era when I could have kicked a bag every week. Open high scoring footy apparently leads to duds kicking lots of goals.

Cox has been incredibly valuable in many games and to suggest otherwise indicates a bllnkered biased personal agenda. He has had a few shockers too. It's rare to find a player whose never had some very poor games. When Wayne Carey said during the prelim in 2018 that Cox had a shocker in round one against the Hawks but played consistently good footy for the rest of the season that's good enough for me. If I'm wrong I'm in very good company,
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Is he clearly best on when a bloke kicks 6 up the other end?

Now all those other players you mentioned became champions because they could do it with regularity. To even compare Cox to Dunstall, Hudson Lockett and McKenna is ridiculous

Why will Jack Riewoldt be remembered as a champion? For games like the 2018 prelim where his sides getting smashed and he manages to kick 5 and give them a chance of getting back in the game. When the chips were down and things weren’t going his way he stood up.

The facts are in the 21 game period that Carey dubbed consistently good footy he managed 20 goals so less than one a game and was held goalless 8 times. So more than one in three games he contributed sweet * all.
 
magpiewarrior said:
I have long believed that Mason should be working from the goal square and Checkers should be at CHF ( at least until Kelly is ready ). Mason at the top of the square would attract more defenders than a nightsoil cart could attract flies. De Goey and Stepho get the flanks and Billy combined with one of Daics / T. Brown / J.T. in the pockets. Keeping Mason deep, either at the top of the square or on a short, sharp lead, 7 defenders won’t be enough to contain them all. Checkers is better in all aspects of the game ( barring the high flying speccie ) than 1990 premiership CHF Starcevich, so I don’t have any doubts that Checkers could do the job we need him to.
All of this is of course, reliant on the mids, on ballers and halfbacks, delivering the ball in such a way that maximises the potential strength of the forward line.
With the talent we have across the field, our strategists should able to come up with a series of set plays,so that our halfbacks, mids or on ballers know at a glance, which set play the forwards are working and move the ball accordingly.
Sounds to simple ? With the forward line that we have, it could actually be that simple. Masons’ size, appetite for improvement, willingness to sacrifice his stats for the team benefit and work ethic could provide the vital cog to the football machine that we all dream of.
just a thought.
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100% agree with you here. Nothing annoys me more watching the than seeing the big fella lumbering up the ground, not impacting the contest there and then our mids dumping the ball long only to be intercepted by one of the defenders and the ball is swept out of our forward line, all the while Cox is trying to run back inside 50.

I understand that the down the line marking/contest target is important, however odds are Coxy isn't even going to mark it as he gets pushed under those high balls far to easily especially when there is a pack under it, and we know he's not going to get a free kick for it. I agree send Mihocek to contest those, he at least has the running power to get back inside 50 relatively quickly. Have Coxy stand out of the square and let him have a channel of about 35m to lead into out of the square, Elliot and Stevo the rest of the forward line is yours, just stay out of big Mason's lane, and have Varcoe there with him for the front and center as he's our best crumbing forward.
 
Johno9911 said:
100% agree with you here. Nothing annoys me more watching the than seeing the big fella lumbering up the ground, not impacting the contest there and then our mids dumping the ball long only to be intercepted by one of the defenders and the ball is swept out of our forward line, all the while Cox is trying to run back inside 50.

I understand that the down the line marking/contest target is important, however odds are Coxy isn't even going to mark it as he gets pushed under those high balls far to easily especially when there is a pack under it, and we know he's not going to get a free kick for it. I agree send Mihocek to contest those, he at least has the running power to get back inside 50 relatively quickly. Have Coxy stand out of the square and let him have a channel of about 35m to lead into out of the square, Elliot and Stevo the rest of the forward line is yours, just stay out of big Mason's lane, and have Varcoe there with him for the front and center as he's our best crumbing forward.
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The problem is outside of Stevo and Elliott no Collingwood forward believes in leading for the ball. They either stand and point or back pedal and try and get it over the back
 

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Seedsfan said:
The problem is outside of Stevo and Elliott no Collingwood forward believes in leading for the ball. They either stand and point or back pedal and try and get it over the back
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That's what I'm saying, have Cox, Elliot and Stevo all as the roaming, lead up targets and have Varcoe at the feet of Cox as the crumber. Our forward line lacks structure, and rightly or wrongly Cox is our best key forward to address that issue. Elliot and Stevo will have better chances of leading up at the footy if Cox is starting deep in the goal square as he will attract 1/2 defenders to him to draw space for Elliot and Stevo to hit up. The problem starts when Cox goes up the ground and the second defender just drops into the space and clogs up the leading channels for the likes of Stevo or Jamie, and for some reason some of our mids seem to prefer picking out the spare defender rather than one of our forwards with the kick inside 50.

This potentially could also help Hoskin-Elliot as he likes to, as you say, back pedal and try and get in behind the play so with our other forwards leading up there is more space for him to do so. If we have three forwards leading up at the ball, I don't mind having someone like Hoskin floating around the outside as the loose "cheap" option, provided when he doesn't get a look at the goal he's doing something else beneficial like applying pressure or hitting up the wings to assist the mids.
 
Johno9911 said:
That's what I'm saying, have Cox, Elliot and Stevo all as the roaming, lead up targets and have Varcoe at the feet of Cox as the crumber. Our forward line lacks structure, and rightly or wrongly Cox is our best key forward to address that issue. Elliot and Stevo will have better chances of leading up at the footy if Cox is starting deep in the goal square as he will attract 1/2 defenders to him to draw space for Elliot and Stevo to hit up. The problem starts when Cox goes up the ground and the second defender just drops into the space and clogs up the leading channels for the likes of Stevo or Jamie, and for some reason some of our mids seem to prefer picking out the spare defender rather than one of our forwards with the kick inside 50.

This potentially could also help Hoskin-Elliot as he likes to, as you say, back pedal and try and get in behind the play so with our other forwards leading up there is more space for him to do so. If we have three forwards leading up at the ball, I don't mind having someone like Hoskin floating around the outside as the loose "cheap" option, provided when he doesn't get a look at the goal he's doing something else beneficial like applying pressure or hitting up the wings to assist the mids.
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Problem is you need a deep understanding of how to play forward to know when to lead and when not to lead. It’s hard to teach that to a player
 
Seedsfan said:
Problem is you need a deep understanding of how to play forward to know when to lead and when not to lead. It’s hard to teach that to a player
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Agreed 100% and the best make it look so easy.

Sadly though Cox is our only option atm, hence why I think we should try and keep it as simple as we can for him. Start in the square lead straight up the ground and try and get your hands to it best he can. If he has channel or zone he can just consistently lead into and not have to worry to much about different leading patterns or multiple leading lanes, and just play to his height, hopefully he can provide a consistent target for us. Without trying to make a difficult skill to simple, Coxy's biggest strength is his height, so he doesn't need to worry to much on getting meters in the clear on a lead etc he just needs to have the ball "lobbed" up in front of him and bit of space he can run into.
If he's in the square the kick needs to go 10-15m's in front of him, not on his head cause he's all at sea when it's on top of him, and he can run straight at it and jump, keep it as simple as possible for the big man.
 
Johno9911 said:
Agreed 100% and the best make it look so easy.

Sadly though Cox is our only option atm, hence why I think we should try and keep it as simple as we can for him. Start in the square lead straight up the ground and try and get your hands to it best he can. If he has channel or zone he can just consistently lead into and not have to worry to much about different leading patterns or multiple leading lanes, and just play to his height, hopefully he can provide a consistent target for us. Without trying to make a difficult skill to simple, Coxy's biggest strength is his height, so he doesn't need to worry to much on getting meters in the clear on a lead etc he just needs to have the ball "lobbed" up in front of him and bit of space he can run into.
If he's in the square the kick needs to go 10-15m's in front of him, not on his head cause he's all at sea when it's on top of him, and he can run straight at it and jump, keep it as simple as possible for the big man.
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The other thing they need to do is get more aggressive if someone looks to drop back in the hole go the body spoil. Don’t have to do anything illegal just hit them hard within the rules instead of conceding the contest
 
rand corp said:
Need to give him at least three games on the trot to see if he can find some form
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I wasn't too worried about his game. Looked bloody rusty. His hands were so bad that he wouldn't have been able to catch covid in New York. But I actually thought it was a promising game - looked to have improved his body work and seemed to more regularly get both of his hands to the ball. I actually feel more confident about his year ahead than I did before that horrible display of dropping stuff.
 
Seedsfan said:
Problem is you need a deep understanding of how to play forward to know when to lead and when not to lead. It’s hard to teach that to a player
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Yet every player is taught at some stage.
 
sr36 said:
I wasn't too worried about his game. Looked bloody rusty. His hands were so bad that he wouldn't have been able to catch covid in New York. But I actually thought it was a promising game - looked to have improved his body work and seemed to more regularly get both of his hands to the ball. I actually feel more confident about his year ahead than I did before that horrible display of dropping stuff.
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There was absolutely nothing promising about that game. Couldn’t get near it when Davis was on the field
 
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