Matthew Pavlich

[Kenny_01]

Yeah, I wasn't disputing that...

As much as I love Pav, and he was super consistent (6 AA's in his first 9 seasons), Fyfe's last 2 seasons have been on another level (2 x AFL MVP).

 

[The Filth]

Poor by Freo to not have a replacement...Then follow up by showing where Fremantle have tried to find a replacement....

...and still don't have one after 10 years of looking.

 

[Defacto]

...and still don't have one after 10 years of looking.

Even when past players begged them to draft his replacement they still ignored them for washed up half back flank types

 

[Defacto]

But it's just more bullshit from you. How would you know what the club is doing about leadership development and succession planning?

You just make up shit to suit your vitriol.

So why were freo fans arguing they need to play pav because without him they dont have a leader on field?

And dont give me that "theyre all injured" crap. Youre only missing 7 from the prelim last year. If 7 injuries knock out your leadership onfield then you have a massive void in leadership on your list

 

[Purple Suit]

Pretty hard to argue that Fyfe wasn't the best player in the league in 2015. As great as he is/was, Pavlich has never had an individual season like that.

Hardly anybody has ever had a season like Fyfe, at least the first half of it. Probably Judd, Ablett, a few old timers.

So why were freo fans arguing they need to play pav because without him they dont have a leader on field?

And dont give me that "theyre all injured" crap. Youre only missing 7 from the prelim last year. If 7 injuries knock out your leadership onfield then you have a massive void in leadership on your list

So you expect to have more than 7 leaders out of 22 people? Sounds like you have too many Chief's and not enough Indians.

 

[Defacto]

Unfortunately now, pacy skillful midfielders are just as important for us via the draft as a key forward (possibly moreso depending on how Taberner and Apeness see out the year). Given the utter failure of prior attempts to trade in key forwards, I'm hoping that they consider the necessity of using a first round pic on one within the next 3 drafts (once again, dependent on Taberner and Apeness' form).

They need to start rebuilding their spine as its the thing that takes the longest.

IMO:
- move on barlow, mayne and clarke for what ever you can get. Their currency isnt going to improve
- target a young ruckman over the next couple of seasons. Someone around 20-23
- draft a good project ruck
- if you have a KPP at your pick in the first round then take them. If need be trade up to get them
- trade in an elite user of the football that can play in a defencive role on the half back flank. You need meters gained here. Someone good under pressure
- start putting an emphasis on leadership characteristics and ball use. There's no point drafting an athlete if they butcher it
- start luring WA talent back home

 

[dockshark]

So why were freo fans arguing they need to play pav because without him they dont have a leader on field?

And dont give me that "theyre all injured" crap. Youre only missing 7 from the prelim last year. If 7 injuries knock out your leadership onfield then you have a massive void in leadership on your list

I don't know why people post the things they do Defacto, a combination of experience, knowledge, environmental exposure and a variety of conscious and subconscious bias would be my best guess. Why do you spend so much time spewing out your Freo hate? I'd say a combination of the factors i've listed explain that too, but I'm not a psychologist.

David Mundy, Michael Johnson, Matthew Pavlich, Aaron Sandilands, Nat Fyfe, Lee Spurr. That's the club's on field leadership group. Mundy, Johnson, Fyfe, and Sandilands were all not available, so if Pav didn't play then we would have had only Lee Spurr on the ground from the leadership group. I'm sure even you can acknowledge that this is less than ideal and folks have been rightly commenting that Pav provides outstanding leadership, and it makes sense to have some experienced leaders on the ground.

Of course you wrap all that up in your confirmatory bias (suggest you look that up by the way ) and turn it into the club having a dearth of leadership, no succession plan, and no effective leadership development.

TL;DR: You are a heavily biased flog who is incapable of a rational exchange when it comes to Freo or Ross.

 

[Kram]

Hardly anybody has ever had a season like Fyfe, at least the first half of it. Probably Judd, Ablett, a few old timers.

So you expect to have more than 7 leaders out of 22 people? Sounds like you have too many Chief's and not enough Indians.

Mate at St Kilda everybody is a leader. From the head coach, to the captain, to the 27th best bloke on the the list, the rookies, the bloke that cleans and puts the cakes in the urinals..

 

[HTPunter]

Honestly think Freo should try to do something different in the short-medium term whilst rebuilding.

Remember the Dogs forward line of 07-09 before they got Barry Hall? Their forwards in the 09 finals were Hahn and Welsh, alongside Johnson, Aka, Giansiracusa, Higgins and Hill. They got about 60 goals out of Hahn and Welsh to make a prelim - I'm sure if Mayne and Taberner could contribute 40 goals (a goal a game each) they would at win least a few games. But really the Dogs were built on fast ball movement, and having a variety of smart small forwards.

Give Pav his deserved farewell, I think in a year like this it doesn't really matter, but the Dockers should be aiming to win some games in the short-term and I think accepting they don't have a good big key forward and therefore playing that way would go a long way to that. Don't bomb it in long/high, go backwards to a loose man instead of the goalsquare as a get-out-of-jail card etc.
Meanwhile pick up McCarthy, draft another key forward, and in 3-5 years you can implement a flag-winning game plan.

Pav unfortunately probably going to remembered by non-Freo fans as not winning a flag, but really, he couldn't have done much more. Should be respected the way Richo and Riewoldt are.

 

[dockshark]

Mate at St Kilda everybody is a leader. From the head coach, to the captain, to the 27th best bloke on the the list, the rookies, the bloke that cleans and puts the cakes in the urinals..

Yep...St Kilda seems like the kind of club you would measure yourself against if trying to build a long term successful culture. Oh....wait.

 

[Demons09]

Yep...St Kilda seems like the kind of club you would measure yourself against if trying to build a long term successful culture. Oh....wait.

Mate Freo will rise quicker than spoonsville and play finals before them.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Not criticising but how can you not have seen Pav at his best? According to your profile you live in Perth and have been on bigfooty since 06. Just never watched Freo play?

That's right mate, I guess my son and I looked at TV and our own club, we come out of Vic. We would go into the ballot for games here when the Hawks came over, and on rare occasions get to Melbourne , but I never took that much notice of Pav and Freo until the last 3 to 5 years, and then on occasion , but now I have some more time on my hands I watched a bit more, as I said the other week I watched about 5 games one weekend, and that's another reason I have a shot at the rules committee so much , because you get to see the absolute crap that they are pushing as Aussie rules (IN SOME AREAS) every game!

I know I sound like a whinger over that , but its there in front of your eyes shocking umpire decisions and you can't blame the umps!.

When Pavlich came here I didn't watch much, and I heard the 6PR boys rave about him for ages, and also about Freo's recruiting , Hardie and Langdon.

Then when I started to get to see more footy , via not working and getting a bit older, I saw Pav do a few good things , and I also saw him stuff up, badly , sometimes, and my comments on Pav have been misjudging him, for what he really is, from his past , what I've seen now is a bloke struggling and injured and on some occasions maybe carrying the can for everyone.
I 've seen him miss killer goals miss marks , for a top footballer he shouldn't have to look like that.

My major annoyance was that he was always described as this almighty champion in the media, so in my eyes he was over rated, but as I see from others , I am wrong about him, but I didn't see all that much.

If he retires he needs to be recognised by what he's achieved in the whole of his career. Any way I'm just a mug on Big Footy. Take it easy.

Larry Holmes looked pretty bad when I last saw him fight . But he was one of the best ever , and made Ali look bad , Ali stayed too long too!

 

[Defacto]

I don't know why people post the things they do Defacto, a combination of experience, knowledge, environmental exposure and a variety of conscious and subconscious bias would be my best guess. Why do you spend so much time spewing out your Freo hate? I'd say a combination of the factors i've listed explain that too, but I'm not a psychologist.

David Mundy, Michael Johnson, Matthew Pavlich, Aaron Sandilands, Nat Fyfe, Lee Spurr. That's the club's on field leadership group. Mundy, Johnson, Fyfe, and Sandilands were all not available, so if Pav didn't play then we would have had only Lee Spurr on the ground from the leadership group. I'm sure even you can acknowledge that this is less than ideal and folks have been rightly commenting that Pav provides outstanding leadership, and it makes sense to have some experienced leaders on the ground.

Of course you wrap all that up in your confirmatory bias (suggest you look that up by the way ) and turn it into the club having a dearth of leadership, no succession plan, and no effective leadership development.

TL;DR: You are a heavily biased flog who is incapable of a rational exchange when it comes to Freo or Ross.

good clubs dont rely solely upon the leadership group, their leadership bats much deeper down the list. they take the mantra that you have to develop the leadership of every player on the list

if people think missing 5 out of 6 members in their leadership group is an issue then it just means they think the leadership on their list is shallow. if thats the case then you would hope they think the club needs to start putting an emphasis on leadership when recruiting players

 

[NathanMX]

He also doesn't cry on the footy field.

Takes a thread celebrating a champion and uses it to ridicule another champion rather then celebrate the career of the greatest Docker so far. Classy.

 

[Defacto]

Takes a thread celebrating a champion and uses it to ridicule another champion rather then celebrate the career of the greatest Docker so far. Classy.

what do you expect from supporters who boo their own captain. after everything pav did for them, to boo him is pretty poor. which makes this thread interesting, quick to defend their own captain after they boo'd him last year

is this a case of do as i say, dont do as i do?

 

[Defacto]

Hardly anybody has ever had a season like Fyfe, at least the first half of it. Probably Judd, Ablett, a few old timers.

So you expect to have more than 7 leaders out of 22 people? Sounds like you have too many Chief's and not enough Indians.

thats exactly what i am saying. you dont think the good clubs have leadership that goes beyond the ~7 people in their leadership group?

 

[Kram]

Takes a thread celebrating a champion and uses it to ridicule another champion rather then celebrate the career of the greatest Docker so far. Classy.

lol the thread is absolutely full of St Kilda losers trolling the guy, if you can't take a bit back then you are soft.

 

[Kram]

what do you expect from supporters who boo their own captain. after everything pav did for them, to boo him is pretty poor

Oh and hello right on cue here comes this guy again. Busy day today? Do you think you can get your 100+ quota in?

 

[Dump Truck]

Honestly think Freo should try to do something different in the short-medium term whilst rebuilding.

Remember the Dogs forward line of 07-09 before they got Barry Hall? Their forwards in the 09 finals were Hahn and Welsh, alongside Johnson, Aka, Giansiracusa, Higgins and Hill. They got about 60 goals out of Hahn and Welsh to make a prelim - I'm sure if Mayne and Taberner could contribute 40 goals (a goal a game each) they would at win least a few games. But really the Dogs were built on fast ball movement, and having a variety of smart small forwards.

You said it already yourself. Fast, skillful ball movement. Freo can't do that right now. We need to let Pav play out the season or call it whenever he wants. He's done an outstanding job as a Freo and AFL player and by most parts universally respected.

For all the 2 or 3 flogs on this post who are upset with him, constantly attacking Freo, they're the kind of people who go to stand up comedy events to get offended and write strongly worded letters to the comedian. Worthless, useless, ignorant and arrogant flogs.

 

[estibador]

That's right mate, I guess my son and I looked at TV and our own club, we come out of Vic. We would go into the ballot for games here when the Hawks came over, and on rare occasions get to Melbourne , but I never took that much notice of Pav and Freo until the last 3 to 5 years

Most people have the good sense not to comment on things they know nothing about.

Ok, maybe that doesn't apply to bigfooty

 

[estibador]

Mate at St Kilda everybody is a leader. From the head coach, to the captain, to the 27th best bloke on the the list, the rookies, the bloke that cleans and puts the cakes in the urinals..

Such impeccable leadership depth must be why you never hear of that club getting into any scandals during the off-season.

 

[2006_Eagles]

He was cooked last year.

 

[Matera92]

Superstar and Champion, team mates should be ashamed at the garbage they are dishing up around him.

 

[NathanMX]

lol the thread is absolutely full of St Kilda losers trolling the guy, if you can't take a bit back then you are soft.

I am soft am I? The only thing I wrote in this thread was a tribute to your champion. If that makes me soft so be it....

 

[Stronzo]

thats exactly what i am saying. you dont think the good clubs have leadership that goes beyond the ~7 people in their leadership group?

If it would make you feel better we could rattle off a list of names?