Moved Thread maximum Discrepant Anomalies In Coach OpinionS Index(D.A.I.C.Os index)

[Crankyhawk]

AKA the max D.A.I.C.OS index. No idea how that happens to make an anagram exactly the same as last year's Coaches MVP, just one of life's weird coincidences I guess.

Thought it was time we had a thread about this simmering little talking point, as much to protect the reputations of the innocent as anything.

We can track this and discuss it here. To me the Coches MVP used to be about the most prestigious award, certainly the most credible. Now I am less sure.

Votes being given to N Daicos by C McRae in particular have raised a few eyebrows. Said player actually won the award last year. He was the only player in the top 6 in the award last year who was not also in the top 6 for average player ratings.

The truth is we don't know which coach gives which votes and we also often don't know how a players votes are comprised, like a 5 vote game could possibly be 5-0, or 3-2 when you consider all the other votes. So how can we make objective sense of this to help us understand what could be happening?

My suggestion here is a new index, the maximum discrepant anomalies in coach opinions when they issue their votes weekly in season.

How this works:

We simply work out the maximum possible discrepancy between the 2 coaches votes for the player we are interested in.

Eg

2025 Rd 2 Bulldogs v Magpies we get the following votes -

View attachment 2260096

We can see here 3 players have 8 votes. So 1 of the 3 must have got 4+4 and the other 2 got 5+3.

So for Daicos, the maximum dicrepancy possible is 5-3 = 2.

So how did 2024 look for the accidentally eponymous hero of the thread?

He received 117 votes overall. His maximum discrepancy was by my calculations, 23 votes. Ie, the maximum Mcrae could have given him is 70 votes. The minimum opposition clubs could have given him was 47 votes. It seems quite a discrepancy, but we are comparing the maximum possible with the minimum possible to derive that discrepancy, so how does it compare with others?

2024 Isaac Heeney had a maximum discrepancy of just 12 votes. The minimum possible he could have received from opposition coaches was 50 votes, 3 more thanDaicos's minimum.

2017 Dusty got 122 votes, the highest ever. His maximum discrepancy was 10 votes. 66-56 was his max possible discrepancy between one coach and the other.

The really interesting thing here so far is Daicos 2025. After just 3 rounds he already has a maximum possible discrepancy of 7 votes, on world record pace.

Feel free to request other players maximum discrepancies, or contribute yourselves by submitting some.

How do you know if Macrae is the one giving the higher value? It could be the other coach doing it..

 

[ShereKhan]

Just a bit of critical thinking required here...

His first game this year netted him 0 coaches votes, but when looking at averages it obviously works against him for PlaYeR RaTingZ.

Is it better to be the 10th best player on the ground in all games so far this season, but do a few things that the PlaYeR RaTingZ algorithm likes, or have an injury affected first game followed by two games in which you are in the top few players on the ground, inclusive of a matchwinning performance?

I mean, the two players ranked immediately ahead of Daicos in the PlaYeR RaTingZ are Tom McDonald and Jackson Mead. Who WOULDN'T want those players ahead of Daicos of doing a redraft? And who WOULDN'T conclude they've been far better performed players so far this year?

LOLOL

Anyone who didn’t think Libba was BOG the other night was watching a different game.

Libba was top rated player of the game with 21.4 - 4.7 points clear of second. Daicos was 10th in that game.

Here are the midfield players for the round who got 6+ coaches votes and their respective player ranking for the round:

Macrae 8 votes: 3rd ranked
Sinclair 7: 5th
Libba 8: 8th
Powell 7: 12th
Burgoyne 7: 16th
Dawson 10 : 18th
Warner 6: 22nd
Rozee 10: 27th
Newcombe 9: 28th
Neale 9: 35th

Daylight ……

Daicos 8: 86th

Then Round 23 last year:

Newcombe 9: 3rd
Richards 6: 4th
Cripps 10: 5th
Heeney10: 7th
Viney 10: 10th
Brayshaw 6: 16th
Martin 8: 17th
….
Daicos 8: 25th

Libba 6: 28th
Dawson 6: 31st

Round 21:

LDU 10: 1st
McCluggae 5: 4th
Neale 8: 6th
Treloar 8: 8th
Bont: 10 9th
Newcombe 6: 18th
Cripps 9: 22nd
Yeo 8: 23rd

……

Daicos 5: 40th


Let’s review how many times Naicos has been outside the top-5 players in regards to player rankings for a Pies game and received votes in 2024:

Round 1: 5 votes: 6th ranked
Round 3: 5: 8th
Round 10: 10: 21st !!
Round 11: 9: 12th
Round 16: 8: 8th
Round 17: 2: 14th
Round 21: 5: 6th
Round 23: 8: 7th

So that’s 52 coaches votes in 8 x games where he wasn’t ranked in the top-5 players on the ground.



How does that compare with Bont as an example…..Bont didn’t get coaches votes in a a single game where he wasn’t ranked top-5 on the ground - not one.

What about Cripps?

Round 19: 8: 6th

Cripps got 8 coaches votes from just 1 game when outside top-5.

So Naicos 52 coaches votes from 8 games when ranked outside top-5.

Bont and Cripps 8 x votes combined from 1 x game outside top-5.

Interesting ……



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Fadge]

Anyone who didn’t think Libba was BOG the other night was watching a different game.

Libba was top rated player of the game with 21.4 - 4.7 points clear of second. Daicos was 10th in that game.

Here are the midfield players for the round who got 6+ coaches votes and their respective player ranking for the round:

Macrae 8 votes: 3rd ranked
Sinclair 7: 5th
Libba 8: 8th
Powell 7: 12th
Burgoyne 7: 16th
Dawson 10 : 18th
Warner 6: 22nd
Rozee 10: 27th
Newcombe 9: 28th
Neale 9: 35th

Daylight ……

Daicos 8: 86th

Then Round 23 last year:

Newcombe 9: 3rd
Richards 6: 4th
Cripps 10: 5th
Heeney10: 7th
Viney 10: 10th
Brayshaw 6: 16th
Martin 8: 17th
….
Daicos 8: 25th

Libba 6: 28th
Dawson 6: 31st

Round 21:

LDU 10: 1st
McCluggae 5: 4th
Neale 8: 6th
Treloar 8: 8th
Bont: 10 9th
Newcombe 6: 18th
Cripps 9: 22nd
Yeo 8: 23rd

……

Daicos 5: 40th


Let’s review how many times Naicos has been outside the top-5 players in regards to player rankings for a Pies game and received votes in 2024:

Round 1: 5 votes: 6th ranked
Round 3: 5: 8th
Round 10: 10: 21st !!
Round 11: 9: 12th
Round 16: 8: 8th
Round 17: 2: 14th
Round 21: 5: 6th
Round 23: 8: 7th

So that’s 52 coaches votes in 8 x games where he wasn’t ranked in the top-5 players on the ground.



How does that compare with Bont as an example…..Bont didn’t get coaches votes in a a single game where he wasn’t ranked top-5 on the ground - not one.

What about Cripps?

Round 19: 8: 6th

Cripps got 8 coaches votes from just 1 game when outside top-5.

So Naicos 52 coaches votes from 8 games when ranked outside top-5.

Bont and Cripps 8 x votes combined from 1 x game outside top-5.

Interesting ……



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

'PlaYeR RaTingZ'

OMFG.

Surely you stopped and reassessed your post when you realised both coaches gave him the 5 votes in a game where 'PlaYeR RaTingZ' ranked him the 21st best player on the ground?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

How do you know if Macrae is the one giving the higher value? It could be the other coach doing it..

Absolutely. We do not know that part.

But if you had to bet your life on it, are you betting on McRae being biased toward his own player, or biased against him?

 

[Meteoric Rise]

What about not giving votes to an opposition player who is contending for the medal against one of your team's players?

Nobody would have bat an eyelid if Daicos got zero votes in that game so he definitely should not be getting 5 from either party. People generally expected Cripps would get 10 or close and Daicos would get zero. It decided the award and instantly makes Daicos winning it controversial, to say the very least.

Imo Heeney was clearly the most deserving. He had the highest average votes per game, & the highest aggregate minimum possible votes from opposition coaches.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Absolutely. We do not know that part.

But if you had to bet your life on it, are you betting on McRae being biased toward his own player, or biased against him?

Given it happens consistently are we honestly to believe it's each individual coach doing so each time, or the common denominator in the matter in Fly McRae...

 

[Fadge]

Nobody would hve bat an eyelid if Daicos got zero votes in that game so he definitely should not be getting 5 from either party. People generlly expected Cripps would get 10 or close and Daicos would get zero. It decided the award and instantly makes Daicos winning it controversial, to say the very least.

Imo Heeney was clearly the most deserving. He had the highest average votes per game, & the highest aggregate minimum possible votes from opposition coaches.

Noone would have batted an eyelid if the player who was deemed the best player for the winning team, who also received two Brownlow votes, didn't receive a single coaches vote?

Yeah, OK....

 

[Meteoric Rise]

'PlaYeR RaTingZ'

OMFG.

Surely you stopped and reassessed your post when you realised both coaches gave him the 5 votes in a game where 'PlaYeR RaTingZ' ranked him the 21st best player on the ground?

It is tempting to respond along the lines of mCraE vOtEs, but I don't want this to descend into yet another Fadge sewer thread.

So I will just say if you carry on this rubbish on this thread I will start reporting your posts. If you have a point to make, make it and move on, don't keep repeating it to try to detract from the way others wish to discuss the topic.

Player ratings are as legit and as fallible as any other credible way of grading performances. You yourself have quoted Brownlow votes as authoritative on one hand while calling into question their legitimacy in other posts because you thought the wrong player was awarded votes. So you are not convincing anybody here player ratings have no credibility just because you didn't agree with a particular rating a player attracted in a match.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Absolutely. We do not know that part.

But if you had to bet your life on it, are you betting on McRae being biased toward his own player, or biased against him?

I would be betting that it is a mixture. And that there is no consistent pattern.

 

[Fadge]

It is tempting to respond along the lines of mCraE vOtEs, but I don't want this to descend into yet another Fadge sewer thread.

So I will just say if you carry on this rubbish on this thread I will start reporting your posts. If you have a point to make, make it and move on, don't keep repeating it to try to detract from the way others wish to discuss the topic.

Player ratings are as legit and as fallible as any other credible way of grading performances. You yourself have quoted Brownlow votes as authoritative on one hand while calling into question their legitimacy in other posts becuse you thought the wrong player was awarded votes. So you are not convincing anybody here player ratings have no credibility just because you didn't agree with a particular rating a player attracted in a match.

Unsubscribe.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Noone would have batted an eyelid if the player who was deemed the best player for the winning team, who also received two Brownlow votes, didn't receive a single coaches vote?

Yeah, OK....

So every player who receives 2 Brownlow votes should automatically recieve coaches votes or people would be shocked?

I don't think so Fadge, because I am sure we can find a lot of examples of where this has occurred without it ever being questioned.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Given it happens consistently are we honestly to believe it's each individual coach doing so each time, or the common denominator in the matter in Fly McRae...

My cash would be on the common daicosnominator for sure.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

AKA the max D.A.I.C.OS index. No idea how that happens to make an anagram exactly the same as last year's Coaches MVP, just one of life's weird coincidences I guess.

Thought it was time we had a thread about this simmering little talking point, as much to protect the reputations of the innocent as anything.

We can track this and discuss it here. To me the Coches MVP used to be about the most prestigious award, certainly the most credible. Now I am less sure.

Votes being given to N Daicos by C McRae in particular have raised a few eyebrows. Said player actually won the award last year. He was the only player in the top 6 in the award last year who was not also in the top 6 for average player ratings.

The truth is we don't know which coach gives which votes and we also often don't know how a players votes are comprised, like a 5 vote game could possibly be 5-0, or 3-2 when you consider all the other votes. So how can we make objective sense of this to help us understand what could be happening?

My suggestion here is a new index, the maximum discrepant anomalies in coach opinions when they issue their votes weekly in season.

How this works:

We simply work out the maximum possible discrepancy between the 2 coaches votes for the player we are interested in.

Eg

2025 Rd 2 Bulldogs v Magpies we get the following votes -

View attachment 2260096

We can see here 3 players have 8 votes. So 1 of the 3 must have got 4+4 and the other 2 got 5+3.

So for Daicos, the maximum dicrepancy possible is 5-3 = 2.

So how did 2024 look for the accidentally eponymous hero of the thread?

He received 117 votes overall. His maximum discrepancy was by my calculations, 23 votes. Ie, the maximum Mcrae could have given him is 70 votes. The minimum opposition clubs could have given him was 47 votes. It seems quite a discrepancy, but we are comparing the maximum possible with the minimum possible to derive that discrepancy, so how does it compare with others?

2024 Isaac Heeney had a maximum discrepancy of just 12 votes. The minimum possible he could have received from opposition coaches was 50 votes, 3 more thanDaicos's minimum.

2017 Dusty got 122 votes, the highest ever. His maximum discrepancy was 10 votes. 66-56 was his max possible discrepancy between one coach and the other.

The really interesting thing here so far is Daicos 2025. After just 3 rounds he already has a maximum possible discrepancy of 7 votes, on world record pace.

Feel free to request other players maximum discrepancies, or contribute yourselves by submitting some.

You have way too much time on your hands old meteoric

 

[Meteoric Rise]

You have way too much time on your hands old meteoric

Got anything to add about the topic?

 

[Chronz]

Got anything to add about the topic?

Daicos won the coaches award fair and square last year. You have no idea which way the coaches voted, you're only guessing.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Daicos won the coaches award fair and square last year. You have no idea which way the coaches voted, you're only guessing.

We can't be certain, but this doesn't mean we have no idea where his votes came from. We have a few clues to assist us.

But the main point of this thread is to focus on gathering the facts first. We can draw our conclusions after we have more facts at hand. But so far this season the eponymous hero of this thread is smashing his max possible discrepancy out of the paddock.


Probable votes:

From oppo coaches 0 0 3

From Craven McRae 0 5 5


The biggest shock here seems to be McRe didn't wrap his arms around his wounded warrior by granting him 5 votes to help him get over his life threatening cramp in Rd 1.

 

[Meteoric Rise]

It's the most blatant Pies troll thread yet everyone elses responses are being deleted. Hilarious.

The thred is what it says in the o/p. Here to investigate maximum possible discrepancies in coaches votes. And clearly people are genuinely interested in discussing and reading about that. If you want to genuinely add to that discussion, you are welcome here. If you are here for other purposes I will not hesitate to report your posts.

 

[Mofra]

It's the most blatant Pies troll thread yet everyone elses responses are being deleted. Hilarious.

It can't be deliberate; Friday night proved that "Deliberate" and "Daicos" just don't go together.

 

[Chronz]

The biggest shock here seems to be McRe didn't wrap his arms around his wounded warrior by granting him 5 votes to help him get over his life threatening cramp in Rd 1.

 

[Crankyhawk]

It's the most blatant Pies troll thread yet everyone elses responses are being deleted. Hilarious.

doesn't seem that way, for example my responses are not being deleted

 

[Crankyhawk]

So based off this individual game
max differential of 1 for both newcombe and battle (but only in one case is Sam favoring his player, in the other Sam is underrating his player)
zero differential for TDK
max differential of 2 for both Mass and Blake
max differential of 1 for Hewett and Chol, either both coaches underrating their own player, or both favoring

As you can see there is always a mix of underrate and overrate.

 

[sabso]

View attachment 2260856
So based off this individual game
max differential of 1 for both newcombe and battle (but only in one case is Sam favoring his player, in the other Sam is underrating his player)
zero differential for TDK
max differential of 2 for both Mass and Blake
max differential of 1 for Hewett and Chol, either both coaches underrating their own player, or both favoring

As you can see there is always a mix of underrate and overrate.

For people saying there’s no way of knowing, btw, in this match it’s certain that both coaches gave tdk 3 votes, and both coaches gave their 2 and 1 votes to different players.

 

[ShereKhan]

'PlaYeR RaTingZ'

OMFG.

Surely you stopped and reassessed your post when you realised both coaches gave him the 5 votes in a game where 'PlaYeR RaTingZ' ranked him the 21st best player on the ground?

We are just looking for patterns. The pattern is there was 52 x votes given across 8 x games to Naicos where the Player Ratings didn’t have him in the best 5 x players on the ground.

So did a similar pattern exist for Cripps and Bont? No. When the player ratings had them outside the best-5 on the ground, only once did either of them receive votes.

If anyone can be bothered reviewing other players be my guest - maybe some have similar patterns as Naicos?

That game he got 10 x votes Naicos had 41 touches, but had 11 x clangers and went at 58% DE. So coaches gave him votes as he got a tonne of the ball. Player Ratings didn’t rank him all that highly because 11 x clangers is an epically high number and 58% DE is abysmal.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Walter H White]

AKA the max D.A.I.C.OS index. No idea how that happens to make an anagram exactly the same as last year's Coaches MVP, just one of life's weird coincidences I guess.

Thought it was time we had a thread about this simmering little talking point, as much to protect the reputations of the innocent as anything.

We can track this and discuss it here. To me the Coaches MVP used to be about the most prestigious award, certainly the most credible. Now I am less sure.

Votes being given to N Daicos by C McRae in particular have raised a few eyebrows. Said player actually won the award last year. He was the only player in the top 6 in the award last year who was not also in the top 6 for average player ratings.

The truth is we don't know which coach gives which votes and we also often don't know how a players votes are comprised, like a 5 vote game could possibly be 5-0, or 3-2 when you consider all the other votes. So how can we make objective sense of this to help us understand what could be happening?

My suggestion here is a new index, the maximum discrepant anomalies in coach opinions when they issue their votes weekly in season.

How this works:

We simply work out the maximum possible discrepancy between the 2 coaches votes for the player we are interested in.

Eg

2025 Rd 2 Bulldogs v Magpies we get the following votes -

View attachment 2260096

We can see here 3 players have 8 votes. So 1 of the 3 must have got 4+4 and the other 2 got 5+3.

So for Daicos, the maximum dicrepancy possible is 5-3 = 2.

So how did 2024 look for the accidentally eponymous hero of the thread?

He received 117 votes overall. His maximum discrepancy was by my calculations, 23 votes. Ie, the maximum Mcrae could have given him is 70 votes. The minimum opposition clubs could have given him was 47 votes. It seems quite a discrepancy, but we are comparing the maximum possible with the minimum possible to derive that discrepancy, so how does it compare with others?

2024 Isaac Heeney had a maximum discrepancy of just 12 votes. The minimum possible he could have received from opposition coaches was 50 votes, 3 more thanDaicos's minimum.

2017 Dusty got 122 votes, the highest ever. His maximum discrepancy was 10 votes. 66-56 was his max possible discrepancy between one coach and the other.

The really interesting thing here so far is Daicos 2025. After just 3 rounds he already has a maximum possible discrepancy of 7 votes, on world record pace.

Feel free to request other players maximum discrepancies, or contribute yourselves by submitting some.

This is absolutely elite from you Meteoric Rise. I take back any previous abuse I've given to you or your Richmond brethren. Someone needs to hold the fraudulent McRae to account for his criminal voting.

 

[Walter H White]

Why we cant know which coach gave which votes is a bit stupid seeing as you can sometimes work it out straight away.

Yeah, seems like the obvious thing to do. Transparency. MacRae is never beating the allegations until this comes in.