McPhee

[Selggad]

Not sure if you were referring to me or not El Jefe, but I am sick to death of the stupidity of the McPhee baggers and have consequently come out in support of him with a bit of what I consider realism. I watch most of the games again on replay and have looked closely at McPhee's contribution since the first couple of games. Two things stand out in the replays. One is he makes a lot less mistakes than people think. A good example is the kick to Palmer in the first quarter. Brades is not the only peson who said it was a 20 m kick that missed by 10m - similar has been said in other threads, including Palmer gave McPhee a spray et al, and it is totally wrong. The pass was 30 m and landed at Palmers feet. When the umpire called a ball up Palmer clapped his hands together and called 'Come on' as he ran to position. Didn't even look at McPhee. People tend to see what they want to during a game and then call it as gospel afterwards to support their (incorrect) arguments and views without ever having seen the incident without the passion of the game live and fast.

The other obvious thing is that McPhee does an enormous amount of work in packs that is very hard to notice in the congestion and speed of the game. he is frequently shovelling balls out of packs, clearing out bodies, applying blocks and shepherds and making room or protecting the other guys. He is the best one percent player we currently have.

So my support is not unconditional, he started poorly but has steadily improved. Against Collingwood no doubt he was given a bath by Cloke, but like Harvey said when asked if he was planning to put somebody else on Ablett in the Geelong game, "Who would you suggest?". Cloke was red hot before McPhee went to him and he did give a contest. Any other match up was robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[esquilax]

Cloke was red hot before McPhee went to him and he did give a contest.

Trust his (and our) luck for him to get an inconsistent player having a night out. Damn.

Anyone in doubt should see Cloke's "contribution" pre-, and definitely post-, Rnd 8.

 

[Freo Blood]

Hayden is also starting to cop a bit of attention from the baggers. I agree he has not been at his best and is getting on in years but he is still very important in getting the ball out of the def50. how many times (even now) do you see him goosify an opponent or 2 and release one of our players to rebound... you can't buy that experience and composure. He has never been a great lock down defender.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Brades, that is actually complete bullshit. First on OOF yes. Pav had Grima on his hammer and led very wide. If it had of landed inside the boundary Grima would have been all over Pav. McPhee licked to the lead. it landed right on Pav's chest about 1/2 a metre over the line. No the best result but it wasn't a shank or off the side of the boot. it was a slight misjudgement in a very tight situation.

McPhee's second possession was out of the middle under pressure and resulted in Kep's second shot for goal which he missed. The thrid possession was the kiick to Palmer over 30 m that landed at Palmer's feet. Palmer had an unlucky bounce and a bit of a fumble and there was a ball up. I haven't bothered checking the other two incidents but at the moment you are going at 50% and even the 50 you got right isn't much. Meanwhile, Mundy had turned over 4 disposals, one where he handballed straight to the North's player resulting in a Thompson's first shot at goal and the other when he gave it to Morabito who had absolutely no chance of doing anything and turned it over resulting in Norht's first goal. So on you grounds of looking at the results of the players errors, Mundy was responsible for North's entire score line.

My point is you're statements are incorrect and you're argument is flawed by your bias.

Ok now that I'm home I can reply to this. If McPhee was such a great player, why the hell did he kick it to Pav if it was always going to be OOF. It was out by a good 2m as well, maybe more as thats how wide it was.

The Palmer kick - look at the way Palmer gave him a spray. It wasn't even close to Rhys and for such an easy kick to miss it shows how crap a kick he really is.

Wasn't aware Scott Thompson had a shot at goal by the way. Thought he spent all day down back. As I said, I think you need to be booked into OPSM. Thomas' first shot at goal came from a Mundy kick that was rushed because he was given a ball when straight next to a North man. The second one he handpassed to Morabito who should have given to the outside, but attempted to spin and take the guy on and fended off. You talk about my bias.. at least my facts are true and correct.

 

[hoss]

People criticising McPhee aren't just imagining him playing poorly.

But the people seeing McPhee play well are just imagining it?

The tackles counts, disposal efficiency aren't just imaginary.

At least the stats count give some sort of credible back-up to their argument.

 

[Selggad]

Ok now that I'm home I can reply to this. If McPhee was such a great player, why the hell did he kick it to Pav if it was always going to be OOF. It was out by a good 2m as well, maybe more as thats how wide it was.

The Palmer kick - look at the way Palmer gave him a spray. It wasn't even close to Rhys and for such an easy kick to miss it shows how crap a kick he really is.

Wasn't aware Scott Thompson had a shot at goal by the way. Thought he spent all day down back. As I said, I think you need to be booked into OPSM. Thomas' first shot at goal came from a Mundy kick that was rushed because he was given a ball when straight next to a North man. The second one he handpassed to Morabito who should have given to the outside, but attempted to spin and take the guy on and fended off. You talk about my bias.. at least my facts are true and correct.

Ah brades, the way you make mis-informed opinions and then tell lies to justify them is unique. Happy to send you a copy of the game and a list of the time spots so you can have another look.

2 m? Off to OPSM with you sweetie
Palmer didn't say a word to McPhee at all. What on earth were you looking at??
Yes, I did get Thomas' name wrong but thankfully you are not one to pick up on those obvious unintended errors, something you frequently criticise other people for.
Glad you agree - 2 of Mundys first four possessions directly resulted in scores for Norths. How shit is he, eh?

 

[el jefe]

But the people seeing McPhee play well are just imagining it?

The tackles counts, disposal efficiency aren't just imaginary.

At least the stats count give some sort of credible back-up to their argument.

urgh....

You really are a plonker mate. Go back and read the point I was making and argue the point as a whole, rather than selectively quoting one line from it.

This is exactly the type of bonehead antics that the normal poster is up against in these debates. People sticking to their little camps and not recognising that each side actually has some merit to what they're saying.

 

[Clay Davis]

Stats are misleading.

 

[el jefe]

lol... But clangers aren't

 

[hoss]

urgh....

You really are a plonker mate. Go back and read the point I was making and argue the point as a whole, rather than selectively quoting one line from it.

This is exactly the type of bonehead antics that the normal poster is up against in these debates. People sticking to their little camps and not recognising that each side actually has some merit to what they're saying.

Not in any camp Mate, but it seems you are!! Getting personal too... oh dear. If people can't back up a performance with stats, then maybe they're backed up by Harvey and the selection teams decision to play him and stand by him. But they're all wrong, i guess.. and we must bow to your superior knowledge and experience. Arrogance.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

You guys are a bunch of w***ers. McPhee makes 2-3 errors a game, so what? Is that any more than Pav or Ballas or Hill, or the rest of the team?

Jefe, of the last 6 games, how many would you classify as less than a valuable contribution? I would appreciate if you actually answered.

Richmond, WC, Brisbane, Sydney, North

vs

Collingwood.

All aside, some people are talking alot of shit, as if McPhee is playing stinkers. I want these people to stand up and admit, which of these games have been stinkers.

5 decent to good games out of 6, is good ****ing football, no matter how you look at it.

Stop being blinded by the hate!

 

[el jefe]

Not in any camp Mate, but it seems you are!! Getting personal too... oh dear. If people can't back up a performance with stats, then maybe they're backed up by Harvey and the selection teams decision to play him and stand by him. But they're all wrong, i guess.. and we must bow to your superior knowledge and experience. Arrogance.

Stats stats stats, I am not even arguing that, but you're not even able to grasp this point.

 

[Clay Davis]

His game against Richmond was terrible, Jungletits.

His best games were against Geelong, Brisbane and Sydney. Unsurprisingly they are three teams who play a more contested, physical brand of footy.

 

[el jefe]

You guys are a bunch of w***ers. McPhee makes 2-3 errors a game, so what? Is that any more than Pav or Ballas or Hill, or the rest of the team?

Jefe, of the last 6 games, how many would you classify as less than a valuable contribution? I would appreciate if you actually answered.

Richmond, WC, Brisbane, Sydney, North

vs

Collingwood.

All aside, some people are talking alot of shit, as if McPhee is playing stinkers. I want these people to stand up and admit, which of these games have been stinkers.

5 decent to good games out of 6, is good ****ing football, no matter how you look at it.

Stop being blinded by the hate!

Ok, who sounded the bugle because it looks like the cavalry is here. Well at least one broken down old nag.

You're a McPhee fundamentalist mate, no point trying to have a reasoned discussion with you on the matter. But I will say McPhee has improved, like I said he would, but there is still a large scope left. Adieu.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Ok, who sounded the bugle because it looks like the cavalry is here. Well at least one broken down old nag.

You're a McPhee fundamentalist mate, no point trying to have a reasoned discussion with you on the matter. But I will say McPhee has improved, like I said he would, but there is still a large scope left. Adieu.

Just answer the question mate. Fundamentalist or not, which of those games aren't good enough by your standards?

Back up the talk man.

His game against Richmond was terrible, Jungletits.

His best games were against Geelong, Brisbane and Sydney. Unsurprisingly they are three teams who play a more contested, physical brand of footy.

You mean, the same type of football that is commonly known as 'finals football'??????????

Also on the Richmond game. 26 touches, 6 clangers. Pavlich 16 touches, 4 clangers. Mundy, who has 'elite' disposal had 28 and 4. Broughton 28 and 4. All of those players would be regarded as excellent disposers by foot, but because he had 2 more, it means he played 'terrible'?????

 

[el jefe]

No thanks mate, I've said enough already.

If you want to review my thoughts on McPhee, feel free to dig through my back catalogue. If that doesn't suit you, then tough t***ies.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Piss weak Jefe. Says alot about your credibility.

To all the people who actually look at our player performances with an open mind, and judge them accordingly, you now see what you are up against.

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

everyone is allowed an opinion. i for one think mcphee is a very valuable addition to our club and has been fantastic in the last 6 weeks aside from the pies game. but we had a lot of ordinary players in that game. but i value tackling, shepherding, courage and desire higher than i do how many clangers a player makes. i can handle 4 mcphee clangers when he gives us so much more elsewhere. interestingly on the one game at a time program, pavlich defended smokey stoutly, and thinks he has been a wonderful addition.

long story short. if he is good enough for harves and superpav... he is more than good enough for me

 

[el jefe]

Piss weak Jefe. Says alot about your credibility.

To all the people who actually look at our player performances with an open mind, and judge them accordingly, you now see what you are up against.

No it isn't piss weak at all friend, piss weak would be jumping through your hoops just for the sake of you wanting to argue about something I am not that diametrically opposed to you on.

I am very much a neutral on this topic. I will bag his weaknesses, and commend his strengths.

You have the option, just look back through this thread and others and you can read plenty of my thoughts on McPhee at your leisure.

 

[Bradesmaen]

Ah brades, the way you make mis-informed opinions and then tell lies to justify them is unique. Happy to send you a copy of the game and a list of the time spots so you can have another look.

2 m? Off to OPSM with you sweetie
Palmer didn't say a word to McPhee at all. What on earth were you looking at??
Yes, I did get Thomas' name wrong but thankfully you are not one to pick up on those obvious unintended errors, something you frequently criticise other people for.
Glad you agree - 2 of Mundys first four possessions directly resulted in scores for Norths. How shit is he, eh?

I Foxtel IQ2'ed the game, I watched the first 20mins before writing that post... so I'm happy with my response. Palmer looked DIRECTLY at McPhee. Absolutely directly at him because it was such a shit kick.

I disagreed that it was two of Mundys possies that turned it over. He was forced into an error for one as he had to throw it on the boot, the other was Morabito's careless turnover. McPhees kicks missed the target when he was not under pressure at all.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

No it isn't piss weak at all friend, piss weak would be jumping through your hoops just for the sake of you wanting to argue about something I am not that diametrically opposed to you on.

I am very much a neutral on this topic. I will bag his weaknesses, and commend his strengths.

You have the option, just look back through this thread and others and you can read plenty of my thoughts on McPhee at your leisure.

See that's the thing. I'm unsure of your thoughts with regards to McPhee's performances over the past month and a bit, and i feel assuming that i know your thoughts on this issue would be somewhat arrogant of me, hence me asking you for clarification.

If you feel that answering a question about which games have been valuable contributions, is jumping through hoops, then i apologise. On a forum where people are here to express their opinions, and listen to the opinions of others, i don't believe that asking you for yours, is asking you to jump through hoops.

You've been more than willing to express your thoughts on other McPhee related topics, i don't see how it is asking too much, for you to express your opinions on his performance over the past two months.

So how about it big fella, which games weren't up to scratch?

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

I Foxtel IQ2'ed the game, I watched the first 20mins before writing that post... so I'm happy with my response. Palmer looked DIRECTLY at McPhee. Absolutely directly at him because it was such a shit kick.

I disagreed that it was two of Mundys possies that turned it over. He was forced into an error for one as he had to throw it on the boot, the other was Morabito's careless turnover. McPhees kicks missed the target when he was not under pressure at all.

Just on the McPhee 'errors', i think perhaps you are making far more out of the two incidents than is reasonable Brades.

The OOF kick, was a 50m pass to a forward running at full tilt towards the boundary. If McPhee kicks it a metre or two back inside the field, the defender gets a punch on it and you bag him for a shit kick. As it was, the ball was marginally outside the boundary, but hit Pav perfectly. Perhaps Pav's lead wasn't to the ideal place?

THe kick to Palmer, went to Palmer. Sure it could have been a lace out pass on the chest, but in the end, it wasn't, and didn't need to be. When the ball arrived, Palmer had enough opportunity to do something with it. Unfortunately, Palmer failed to take the ball cleanly, which is Palmers error, not McPhee's. Pearce had a kick much the same, during roughly the same part of the game. The difference is, the recieving player took the ball cleanly, and got a disposal away.

 

[Clay Davis]

You mean, the same type of football that is commonly known as 'finals football'??????????

Yep. I've said that McPhee will be an important player in games against physical teams, and that means finals. But he may cost us a game or two against softer teams (ie Collingwood)

Also on the Richmond game. 26 touches, 6 clangers. Pavlich 16 touches, 4 clangers. Mundy, who has 'elite' disposal had 28 and 4. Broughton 28 and 4. All of those players would be regarded as excellent disposers by foot, but because he had 2 more, it means he played 'terrible'?????

Like I've said often, I don't take much notice of stats, unless I'm praising something positive. I use my eyes. In the Richmond match, he muffed up a number of crucial passages of play that would have resulted in a goal for us, or ended up as a goal for Richmond. I continue to believe that people overrated that game, while underrating his solid performance against Geelong.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Yep. I've said that McPhee will be an important player in games against physical teams, and that means finals. But he may cost us a game or two against softer teams (ie Collingwood)



Like I've said often, I don't take much notice of stats, unless I'm praising something positive. I use my eyes. In the Richmond match, he muffed up a number of crucial passages of play that would have resulted in a goal for us, or ended up as a goal for Richmond. I continue to believe that people overrated that game, while underrating his solid performance against Geelong.

Did you see that chain of handballs from the back pocket? Slick football. Think it ended up in a goal. Might have been in the 3rd quarter, not really sure though, i highly recommend taking a look at it

What I find disappointing is, alot of players end up costing us goals in every game, but we don't hear a word about it. Why do you think our supporters overlook costly mistakes from other payers, but not McPhee?

Edit: With regards to costing us the game against Collingwood, i personally think that's a bit of a stretch. A couple of goals sure. But really, there was a shit load of ball going into the Collingwood 50, largely as a result of our midfield being beaten. Taz also had a crack at Cloke, and got toweled up. We could have put SoS down there for that game, and wouldn't have done much better and certainly wouldn't have won.

Collingwood where smashing out 150+ scores for quite a few games before that, so perhaps Collingwood scoring like they did is less about McPhee, and more about the rest of our team, and how they weren't up to the same standard as Collingwood.

240 points scored in a game is a hell of alot. For me, it means we have gone into the match with a highly offensive mentality. A shoot out style game, will always result in goals being scored, regardless of who plays on who.

 

[Clay Davis]

Did you see that chain of handballs from the back pocket? Slick football. Think it ended up in a goal. Might have been in the 3rd quarter, not really sure though, i highly recommend taking a look at it

What I find disappointing is, alot of players end up costing us goals in every game, but we don't hear a word about it. Why do you think our supporters overlook costly mistakes from other payers, but not McPhee?

I've seen McPhee do a number of good things. His ability to take a strong mark in a pressure situation is rivalled only by Pav.

Be honest with yourself - McPhee screws up the simple things. The basic pieces of play that good teams do as almost muscle memory, he makes look impossible. His clangers are rarely a result of trying to be creative (as Pav's might be) but as a result of just simply screwing up.

Stats don't measure that. People wouldn't be on his back if he didn't do one of those kinds of clangers each week.

He's much better than Dodd, but he has his Dodd moments. Not many others in the team do.