meese has been released

[cmndstab]

You're entitled to your opinion but he wasn't a dud and his time on Melbourne list proves this.

I'm with Drummond on this one, he was starting to show something, he self esteem and confidence was growing and he was starting to show that potential he demonstrated in the underage grades.

The AFC have wasted the last 10 years by ignoring different area under both Ayres and Craig. To say Meesen was a dud is wrong, to say we treated him poorly is right. I don't know why we draft player and refuse to give them a go.

Obviously, you can't refuse to play a player forever and expect good results. Equally, you can't immediately simply lump every new player drafted in the first round into the AFL because they were high draft pick. So there is a point somewhere in between that is best.

Where is that point? The Crows do play their young players, just not as early or as regularly as you would like.

It's a debate worth having, for certain, but to simply state that we refuse to give our young players a go is incorrect. We give them a go, we just expect them to show more than you do before we do it.

 

[Crow-mo]

actually stabby the AFC getting games into its young players early is a very new thing.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Obviously, you can't refuse to play a player forever and expect good results. Equally, you can't immediately simply lump every new player drafted in the first round into the AFL because they were high draft pick. So there is a point somewhere in between that is best.

Where is that point? The Crows do play their young players, just not as early or as regularly as you would like.

It's a debate worth having, for certain, but to simply state that we refuse to give our young players a go is incorrect. We give them a go, we just expect them to show more than you do before we do it.

It's not incorrect because during the 02 to 08 period we did refuse to play the younger guys and this is why we are in the position we are now.

Fergus Watts, John Meesen and even Larance Angwin should have been given more of a go. Fergus Watts showed enough in the 2003 season to be given 15+ games in 2004 as a player for the future, however the awesomeness of Ayres and then Craig only allowed him 5. At the end of 2004, why did we use a first round draft pick on a a ruckman when we had Hudson, Biglands and Clarke in front of him? if he's talented enough to be drafted at such a high number, FFS, play the kid. They had no intentions of playing him purely by the fact we had 3 senior ruckmen in front of him.

Angwin is a different story but still should have been given a go, he was urberawesome. Mental nutcase, yes but playing football, he should have played round 1 2001 as he was a gun, however if his mental illness stopped him from playing, that's a different story. Please don't portray the club as being 'kid friendly during that period' as it wasn't. Don't say we play the kids, when we didn't.

The younger guys have only been given a go since the Dangerfield/Walker and Davis era arrived at West Lakes and that was out of necessity, not direction or strategy.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Meesen shouldnt feel bad, there were a lot of quality rucks in the SANFL during his time at Norwood. He wasnt one of them.

Wow, you really put me in my place with that insightful comment.

 

[Dujon11]

Wow, you really put me in my place with that insightful comment.

Facts tend to do that.

 

[Crow-mo]

Facts tend to do that.

is funny.

 

[Jars458]

actually stabby the AFC getting games into its young players early is a very new thing.

that's true, but has the rationale changed? I don't think so. Its just that recently due to injuries and form, the kids have been well worthy of a game.

On Meesen, I think its a real shame that he didnt' get to have an AFL career, whatever the reason and I am sure there are many.

Agree with those who say its in poor taste to try and criticise him now.

I do note however some of those who are playing the sympathy card have shown very little sympathy to some other players on our list.

AFL is a hard gig and I think we alll have been over criticial at times, myself many times.

Failure is much better than regret and at least these blokes gave it a go.

 

[Magma]

Another wonderful thread.

This. Never good to see a players dreams shattered.

Best of luck to him in the future.

 

[Crow-mo]

that's true, but has the rationale changed? I don't think so. Its just that recently due to injuries and form, the kids have been well worthy of a game.

I think that's the convenience argument some will argue for, but frankly if you can't draft players who deserve being invested in something is wrong.

especially over the time frames.

the real truth is that we frequently didn't take many pro-active, investment type selection decisions for our young blokes, and when they didn't develop we blamed them. over and over.

thankfully we seem to have improved in that regard.

 

[cmndstab]

actually stabby the AFC getting games into its young players early is a very new thing.

I'm not saying they play them early, or have in the past. I'm saying that they play them at some point, and if they point is not ever reached then the player is delisted before they play. This clearly is the correct model - I don't think anyone here would be saying that we should have given Donnelly a game, and failing to do so cost him his career. The only question is how high or low you set that point, and how elastic it should be depending on the player.


I agree that currently the point is too high.

 

[Crow-mo]

when you give the games, and the faith and experience you get into them from that, does clearly matter.

where that point is, and when, has to be a critical factor.

for example, and I am only saying this as hypothetical (resemblance to real people is purely circumstantial). but say you draft a slightly undersized ruckman, that you think needs to be more a KPP. His SANFL team doesn't see it like that, and so his development in the role you want him doesn't happen until 2 or 3 years later when he's physically fully ready. by then he's lost confidence, picked up bad habits, and hasn't actually had any real development.

when that point is, would have an impact on that player.

 

[afc1991]

I'm not saying they play them early, or have in the past. I'm saying that they play them at some point, and if they point is not ever reached then the player is delisted before they play.

I think if blokes like Pfeifer, Meesen, Watts, Angwin had gone on to make it at other clubs D-rod style then theres problems with development. They all got a second chance and none lasted more than a year (or two?) A fresh start at a new club would help negate confidence issues you'd think, yet none could do enough to keep their spot in the squad for any length of time.

The biggest factor in all this is rendell. Rendell vs fantasia is like chalk and cheese.

 

[rooboy]

I think if blokes like Pfeifer, Meesen, Watts, Angwin had gone on to make it at other clubs D-rod style then theres problems with development. They all got a second chance and none lasted more than a year (or two?) A fresh start at a new club would help negate confidence issues you'd think, yet none could do enough to keep their spot in the squad for any length of time.

The biggest factor in all this is rendell. Rendell vs fantasia is like chalk and cheese.

Just on Pfeiffer, I saw him play in the QAFL Grand Final . He played a shocker, hardly got a kick. Although apparently he had a pretty good year for his team, Southport.

On Meeson, OK he did very little with us, but he didn't look too shabby in his games with Melbourne. Injuries are a bastard.

 

[Big Sledge #32]

Just on Pfeiffer, I saw him play in the QAFL Grand Final . He played a shocker, hardly got a kick. Although apparently he had a pretty good year for his team, Southport.

On Meeson, OK he did very little with us, but he didn't look too shabby in his games with Melbourne. Injuries are a bastard.

Pfeiffer came second (or third can't remember) in Southports B&F so it indicates that he had a good year. Weren't Southport the team that lost out to the GC for the 17th club licence?