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Coach Michael Voss - Stats, history, articles, videos

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DangerousD said:
I’ve always struggled to asses people like Austin, i can see lots of draft misses, i see a lack of bringing in established players, i see a lack of fit for purpose mature recruits but what i dont know is, does he pick the players? If someone else is picking and ranking the players, then how does that affect how we view his role?
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Once upon a time, I'd have said that he likely has less say in how the names are ranked than our scouts.

Nowadays, I'm less inclined to give him the out. He's a full time employee. He would likely spend a fair bit of time negotiating contracts with player managers, and would be run off his feet at trade and draft time with all the contingency planning and trade negotiations. But I'd find it very hard to believe he wouldn't have time throughout the year to watch plenty of tape, get along to plenty of games, and ensure he was verifying with his own eyes what the scouts were reporting.

A list manager should have their finger on the pulse regarding the current trends, the likely direction of the game moving forward, and by extension the needs of the list. If Voss says "I rate contest", Austin should be saying "I'll make it one of our considerations, but our analysis indicates we need players who bring traits A, B and C above all else".

So if Austin is in touch with the direction of the game, and is involved and invested in talent assessment, then the buck stops with him. And if he's not, then he's not doing the job.

This isn't to say every recruit needs to be a hit. Inevitable that 50% won't pan out, give or take, for a variety if reasons. So I think the target is something like 60% to be considered doing a really good job.
 
Food for thought. I've been on Voss for not embracing leg speed and kicking.

Go back to us delisting Fisher and Dow. They had just been big players in a crucial home and away win against Melbourne, they were both very good. The game was pretty much a final, both offering a big point of difference to a team that was too slow. Dow with pace and evasiveness with his inside game. Fisher offering 25 disposals as a running half back who ran with the ball, carried the ball and kicked it well.

A few weeks later Voss s***s himself going into finals and drops them both for some slow blokes who can't run and didn't play well as well as dropping Cuningham who could run and defend and Owies who could kick goals. I don't rate either of our finals wins in 2023, we were good enough to keep ourselves in it and very very lucky both sides choked and kicked horribly for goal, we went into finals with worse sides that beat Melbourne in the H/A game at the end of that season. We made our sides slower with team selection. This team selection sealed it for me. Voss does not value pace. Run and carry is not a part of his game. Yet it's one of the biggest changes to the game since the AFL rejigged the rules in 2022.

Neither players are stars but... Does it concerne anyone that two superior coaches (Ross Lyon and Alistair Clarkson) rate Fisher and Dow enough to take them and have them as best 22 players in their sides and Voss was willing to give them away and get them off the list at all cost?

There are just too many red flags that Voss does not understand how modern footy works at all.

Other sides are playing a direct game, running with the ball, running opposition players down who try and run with the ball and we are playing a boundary oriented game style, loaded with ordinary kicks who don't bring the ball into the middle. We're too slow to run players down. We don't run with the ball and break the lines very well. We have had 3 years to get this right and still we have not made list changes to adapt to modern football.

There is something very very wrong at Carlton. Coach is one of them but there probably is a lot more.
 
gbatman said:
Food for thought. I've been on Voss for not embracing leg speed and kicking.

Go back to us delisting Fisher and Dow. They had just been big players in a crucial home and away win against Melbourne, they were both very good. The game was pretty much a final, both offering a big point of difference to a team that was too slow. Dow with pace and evasiveness with his inside game. Fisher offering 25 disposals as a running half back who ran with the ball, carried the ball and kicked it well.

A few weeks later Voss s***s himself going into finals and drops them both for some slow blokes who can't run and didn't play well as well as dropping Cuningham who could run and defend and Owies who could kick goals. I don't rate either of our finals wins in 2023, we were good enough to keep ourselves in it and very very lucky both sides choked and kicked horribly for goal, we went into finals with worse sides that beat Melbourne in the H/A game at the end of that season. We made our sides slower with team selection. This team selection sealed it for me. Voss does not value pace. Run and carry is not a part of his game. Yet it's one of the biggest changes to the game since the AFL rejigged the rules in 2022.

Neither players are stars but... Does it concerne anyone that two superior coaches (Ross Lyon and Alistair Clarkson) rate Fisher and Dow enough to take them and have them as best 22 players in their sides and Voss was willing to give them away and get them off the list at all cost?

There are just too many red flags that Voss does not understand how modern footy works at all.

Other sides are playing a direct game, running with the ball, running opposition players down who try and run with the ball and we are playing a boundary oriented game style, loaded with ordinary kicks who don't bring the ball into the middle. We're too slow to run players down. We don't run with the ball and break the lines very well. We have had 3 years to get this right and still we have not made list changes to adapt to modern football.

There is something very very wrong at Carlton. Coach is one of them but there probably is a lot more.
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You can't have speed for the sake of having speed. Dow and Fisher are both extremely flawed footballers that haven't been able to lock a spot away in bottom 4-6 teams. That shows that speed isn't the only thing that matters. The swans finals win was also comprehensive, the scoreboard flattered the swans, who kicked a couple of late goals to make the scoreboard look a bit better. Sounds like you just have a bee in your bonnet about Voss, this post is full of rewriting of history, and just biased nonsense that completely removes context that was there at the time
 
JJBagger said:
You can't have speed for the sake of having speed. Dow and Fisher are both extremely flawed footballers that haven't been able to lock a spot away in bottom 4-6 teams. That shows that speed isn't the only thing that matters. The swans finals win was also comprehensive, the scoreboard flattered the swans, who kicked a couple of late goals to make the scoreboard look a bit better. Sounds like you just have a bee in your bonnet about Voss, this post is full of rewriting of history, and just biased nonsense that completely removes context that was there at the time
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To be fair, Dow has been chronically injured since he arrived at the Saints.
A bit hard to lock in a place...but then again maybe we dodged a bullet?
 

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The Blue Weirdo said:
To be fair, Dow has been chronically injured since he arrived at the Saints.
A bit hard to lock in a place...but then again maybe we dodged a bullet?
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A bit funny that Dow was one of our least injury affected players. Must have injected him with some "Carlton" virus on his way out the door.
 
JJBagger said:
You can't have speed for the sake of having speed. Dow and Fisher are both extremely flawed footballers that haven't been able to lock a spot away in bottom 4-6 teams. That shows that speed isn't the only thing that matters. The swans finals win was also comprehensive, the scoreboard flattered the swans, who kicked a couple of late goals to make the scoreboard look a bit better. Sounds like you just have a bee in your bonnet about Voss, this post is full of rewriting of history, and just biased nonsense that completely removes context that was there at the time
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Both been injured a lot since leaving. WAtching Fremantle V Collingwood last night, the leg speed of both sides was very obviously well ahead of us. As was the kicking skills. Collingwood being just a bit more skilled. Dow and Fisher are not extremely flawed, they are mildly flawed. That's rubbish, We won kicking 11.8. Swans kicked 9.14. They could have won comfortable and would have if they did not kick so horribly. Same with our finals win over Melbourne. No bee, it's reality and look where we are now. Luck was a huge factor and it glossed over us doing things wrong all the way back then.

It wasn't speed for the sake of speed. Dow and Fisher were amongst our best in a massive game prior to finals and gave us something we did not have, run and carry. We dropped them for Cincotta who struggled and got slaughtered in finals and Cerra who also struggled and did nothing in finals. Much much slower underdon players who played poorly. Yep, that is your coach you are defending. He's selected the side terribly all finals series we have played. It was just luck we won a couple once. You have blue coloured glasses.

The dropping of Dow, Fisher and Cuningham is an example of Voss' preferences. He chose to drop form players with pace and a couple who kick well for out of form, unfit and slow "names". Big bodies, who on the big stage, failed miserably and he should have had to wear it.

Red flag that guys like Ross Lyon and Alistair Clarkson rate those players and Voss doesn't. I know what coaches I would trust.

I'm not saying that those players should still be here. It's the decision he made at the time. Massive red flag we have a coach who can't see how big a deal pace is now.
 
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gbatman said:
Both been injured a lot since leaving. WAtching Fremantle V Collingwood last night, the leg speed of both sides was very obviously well ahead of us. As was the kicking skills. Collingwood being just a bit more skilled. Dow and Fisher are not extremely flawed, they are mildly flawed. That's rubbish, We won kicking 11.8. Swans kicked 9.14. They could have won comfortable and would have if they did not kick so horribly. Same with our finals win over Melbourne. No bee, it's reality and look where we are now. Luck was a huge factor and it glossed over us doing things wrong all the way back then.

It wasn't speed for the sake of speed. Dow and Fisher were amongst our best in a massive game prior to finals and gave us something we did not have, run and carry. We dropped them for Cincotta who struggled and got slaughtered in finals and Cerra who also struggled and did nothing in finals. Much much slower underdon players who played poorly. Yep, that is your coach you are defending. He's selected the side terribly all finals series we have played. It was just luck we won a couple once. You have blue coloured glasses.

The dropping of Dow, Fisher and Cuningham is an example of Voss' preferences. He chose to drop form players with pace and a couple who kick well for out of form, unfit and slow "names". Big bodies, who on the big stage, failed miserably and he should have had to wear it.

Red flag that guys like Ross Lyon and Alistair Clarkson rate those players and Voss doesn't. I know what coaches I would trust.

I'm not saying that those players should still be here. It's the decision he made at the time. Massive red flag we have a coach who can't see how big a deal pace is now.
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I don’t even know what to say to this message. Just a lot of hyperbole, retroactive analysis of the games, team and players, and pace-for-pace sake defending of 2 players who have struggled at the top level for most of their careers. Fremantle last night is the example of how pace-for-pace sake doesn’t work.

You have to play to the style that gets the most out of your list while also wins games. We won 2 finals that year playing a more contested style, more than we have in any year since 2000. And we beat a team in Sydney that made the grand final the previous year, and would make another one the following year. You just seem to have it out for the coach that makes you lose all sense of reasonability and logic

It’s not a red flag that Ross Lyon wanted Dow, it was the bloke the drafted him that wanted Dow. Who is at the saints now. And Fish has struggled to get games in a team winning 2-3 games a year.
 
There is no doubt what so ever in my mind that Carlton coaches have failed the Top4 list by not teaching them how to run faster and kick better.

Things have to change and we need a modern game coach who knows how to make players run faster and kick better- enough of this coaching to run slow and kick bad stuff . A good start would be to pick players dying in ouR fantastic VFL team who are faster runners than the slower players playing in AFL because of lack of selection integrity - enough!
 
JustaBattler said:
There is no doubt what so ever in my mind that Carlton coaches have failed the Top4 list by not teaching them how to run faster and kick better.

Things have to change and we need a modern game coach who knows how to make players run faster and kick better- enough of this coaching to run slow and kick bad stuff . A good start would be to pick players dying in ouR fantastic VFL team who are faster runners than the slower players playing in AFL because of lack of selection integrity - enough!
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If an AFL coach has to teach a player how to kick better and run faster, we have drafted the wrong player.
 

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JJBagger said:
I don’t even know what to say to this message. Just a lot of hyperbole, retroactive analysis of the games, team and players, and pace-for-pace sake defending of 2 players who have struggled at the top level for most of their careers. Fremantle last night is the example of how pace-for-pace sake doesn’t work.

You have to play to the style that gets the most out of your list while also wins games. We won 2 finals that year playing a more contested style, more than we have in any year since 2000. And we beat a team in Sydney that made the grand final the previous year, and would make another one the following year. You just seem to have it out for the coach that makes you lose all sense of reasonability and logic

It’s not a red flag that Ross Lyon wanted Dow, it was the bloke the drafted him that wanted Dow. Who is at the saints now. And Fish has struggled to get games in a team winning 2-3 games a year.
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Fremantle got the pace part right, they lacked the skill that Collingwood have but also looked to lack confidence.

I'm not pushing the players. It's an example of how a coach favoured out of form, unfit big bodies over in form quicker players. It shows the coaches direction. That was a red flag. We have a coach who would rather play underdone players because they are to tougher and bigger than in form guys who have pace and were using it and were playing well at the level. That's what he's done. We really have the same guy Brisbane had. Look at our list and its performance. Come on, we know what's wrong, blind freddy can see that. Yeah there is other things wrong with us but modern football has passed us by and that's on the man who is in charge of game style and list makeup.

Fisher has had good games for North but is more suited to a better team. Saad would be shit at North. Dow has been mostly injured at Saints. That's not my point. As I said, we had them in form in roles providing run and fisher using it well for us, look at the stats they were top. Go look at who came in and their stats and performances. Proof is in the pudding. The point is not the players, it's Voss not valuing leg speed and run and carry and players who were in form who brought that. Forget the individuals. It's the traits. He doesn't value run. It was another example of him dropping quicker runners for slow out of form plodders. He's proven that. He played a Cooked slow as slow Ed Curnow week after week and avoided Dow who was getting 30-40 in the VFL and kicking goals and providing pace. Look at our list. List management has not been encouraged to improve our run. We are becoming one of the games slowest teams.

I wrote the same criticisms after our 2023 finals series. What is happening now, I called it then, I came on here and warned everyone there was a good chance of us ending up where we are. My gut feel after the 2023 season ended for us and seeing Voss' direction as a coach was that we would plummet after a few years. I wrote that on here back then. Called it. Have always hoped I was wrong. I'm not.
 
Not trying to knock him after a win but I thought the images from the rooms were a bit concerning. Players barely even looked like they were happy with the win.

Maybe reading too much into it but I thought they'd be a bit more up and about after a solid win we needed to keep our season alive. Perhaps they're just being more realistic given they, like us, probably know they're a way off the best teams right now.
 

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WalshistheGOAT said:
Not trying to knock him after a win but I thought the images from the rooms were a bit concerning. Players barely even looked like they were happy with the win.

Maybe reading too much into it but I thought they'd be a bit more up and about after a solid win we needed to keep our season alive. Perhaps they're just being more realistic given they, like us, probably know they're a way off the best teams right now.
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Think they were all knackered
 
I liked how Voss said after the match that they didnt plan for a contested swarmed arm wrestle but was happy to play the game that way since it was offered - "gave players a chance to rest given less rotations, loss of two defenders in game and having to rejig the srtucture including Cerra back to defense and Young later -Cerra was killing in the middle before having to go back "

nice bitch slap in Lyon's direction if anyone was listening. 😂 :cool:
 
JustaBattler said:
I liked how Voss said after the match that they didnt plan for a contested swarmed arm wrestle but was happy to play the game that way since it was offered - "gave players a chance to rest given less rotations, loss of two defenders in game and having to rejig the srtucture including Cerra back to defense and Young later -Cerra was killing in the middle before having to go back "

nice bitch slap in Lyon's direction if anyone was listening. 😂 :cool:
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Just lying in the bed we made.
 
Our defensive structure across the ground is clearly very well drilled - hats off to the coach for that as it’s been evident in most games this year.

The next piece is our transition & conversion in F50. The transition has been OK - F50 conversion still needs work.

Losing players like cotters & Williams in the HHF role hurts as our wings are poor at the moment.

Hard to bring that part of our game forward until our wings & HHF’s are doing their job.
 

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