Midfield.

[lucas_hsv]

There has been recent discussions in a few threads about our midfield and how it leaves alot to be desired, so I thought it should be brought up (yeah, again) on its own.

Our midfield is crying out for more than 20 year old kids, and IMO a solution to this would be to use the elite players we actually have that can play midfield, Browny and Joel, in the centre. Although they've both been great performers down back and up forward, surely we'd be better of with both these players the pill the whole day. Before Joel was moved down back, he was the goal kicking midfielder we need, and was unfairly scruitinised. From what i remember, up until around 04 he was getting around the 500 possesion and 25-30 goal mark for the year.

The midfield is the most important position on the ground, if you can't get hands on the pill, how the hell are you suppose to win a game?

Joel's position down back can surely be covered by someone like his brother, hell we can even chuck lids in to fill that position while he develops more. Browny will be more use to us in the centre, getting 30 quality possesions making 5 or 6 goals a game than in a forward pocket kicking 2-4 goals.

After others opinions on this, might even get shot down for suggesting something as stupid such as using your best players in the midfield, but it's an interesting point to consider.

 

[Darth_Tiger]

the more i think about it the more i like it. we really need some drive in the middle where it all starts. i am not saying brown and bowden in there the whole time, but they should be rotated through the midfield alot.

 

[Tambo]

Agreed, nice thread....

Joel did mention in an article somewhere that he aims to play midfield now that Polak hasd arrived.

Could be good to see.

 

[Paddles]

You seem to be forgetting the vital midfield ingedient. Sure, we could stick Brown in there or Bowden, but if there's not an effective ruckman in the middle, then they aren't going to clear it anyway.

Who thinks that Knobel is going to last the season? Some rate him as a tap ruckman, but he needs to string 22 games together. If he falls over, then we are relying on Patto.

It doesn't look good does it?

I still cringe thinking about Tuck contesting the centre bounces at Skilled.

 

[lucas_hsv]

Good point. Good ruckmen are vital in the midfield, , but I think Simmonds proved last year he can be a good ruckman. He wins his fair share of hit outs, and does great work around the ground.

But, It's when we are getting beaten in the ruck that we really need our classiest players in the center. I'm sure we've all seen before a ruckman dominate hitouts, only for the other midfield to still come out on top. Last years Freo V Sydney PF had this happen from what I recall.

 

[lids2004roar]

I would LOVE to see Joel bowden get 30 possessions and 2-3 goals a game from midfield.

Brown should spend less time midfield than forward but defintely should be rotated through.

They are our classiest players and when the game is there to be won they are 100m from the ball.

 

[Paddles]

I know what you mean about Simmo, but I doubt whether he is going to be able to run out games and that means we have to play Knobel and or Patto.

And then we get into trouble.

 

[PLSC]

yeh because simmo,johnno and bowden in the middle is the makings of a premiership side!

i though we were rebuilding

 

[sante]

yeh because simmo,johnno and bowden in the middle is the makings of a premiership side!

i though we were rebuilding

So you would like to continue watching us get spanked?


We need more senior bodies rotating through, for sure I doubt Terry will play Joel there though...maybe when we have our full squad (Round 1), Patrick Bowden can take Joel's spot, Joel is then able to play in the guts.

 

[Paddles]

I still think Bowden is best suited on a wing. However, our lack of class in the middle will mean that he may need to go into the centre square.

P. Bo's form hasn't been much thus far. is he injured?

 

[lucas_hsv]

yeh because simmo,johnno and bowden in the middle is the makings of a premiership side!

i though we were rebuilding

I actually think a center line the likes of...
C: Deledio Bowden Tambling
R: Simmo Johnson/Tuck/Foley Brown
All rotating through those positions is perfectly capable of matching it with the best.

You don't have to throw your youngsters to the wolves to rebuild either. And it's not like they're gonna lose game time, they're simply going to be eased into these positions for the future.

 

[sante]

I actually think a center line the likes of...
C: Deledio Bowden Tambling
R: Simmo Johnson/Tuck/Foley Brown
All rotating through those positions is perfectly capable of matching it with the best.

You don't have to throw your youngsters to the wolves to rebuild either. And it's not like they're gonna lose game time, they're simply going to be eased into these positions for the future.

I'd chuck Foley in definately, he is a clearance king. If our 3 in the circle for each centre bounce was Foley, Bowden/Johnson + Tuck, we should be able to clear the ball or at least not let the opposition clear with ease.

We then have Deledio, Howat, Tambling on the wings to dish it out to.

 

[lucas_hsv]

Agree with Foley definately being in the centre, as you said, clearance king. I'd still love to see Brown get more midfield time, is just an absoloute class act, and should at the least be 50/50 in the time spent forward/midfield. I'd hate to see the ball up the other end with our midfield failing to get it down to a Brown whos sitting in the pocket out of the action.

 

[Paddles]

Agree with Foley definately being in the centre, as you said, clearance king. I'd still love to see Brown get more midfield time, is just an absoloute class act, and should at the least be 50/50 in the time spent forward/midfield. I'd hate to see the ball up the other end with our midfield failing to get it down to a Brown whos sitting in the pocket out of the action.

I agree. Brown is the one true superstar we have had in 25 years or so, and it's a crying shame to see him wasted up forward.

I would love to see him in the middle, spending some time up front.

This of course relies on Richo getting support from Schultz, Kinglesy and Krak. This last bit is a bit of a worry.

 

[_RT_]

In the Where We Can Improve thread I spoke about the same thing. We need the bigger more experienced guys in there to take some heat off of Deledio, Foley & Howat who are more of the future.

For me a midfield that includes ball magnets that can use it like Brown and JB makes the opposition think who should we sit on. I have a few different line ups that I think would create difficulties for the opposition:

First Option:
Ruck Simmo RR: Tuck Rover: Foley Centre: JB Wings: Deledio/Howat
I like this set up because you have 2 clearance guys in Tuck and Foley in the centre and around them are 2 skilled ball users in JB and Deledio and another clearance guy in Howat on the wing. If there is a secondary ball up you then have 3 of our better clearance players in the middle first up. If the tagger sits on Deledio there is still dangerous options to get the ball to who can deliver it forward or if the opposition have it will at least apply some pressure.

Second Option:
Ruck: Simmo RR: Deledio Rover: Foley Centre: Johnson Wings: Brown/Howat
This option you have an extractor in Foley in the middle, Johnson who is our tagger and Deledio who can use his acceleration to break clear of the pack. This is an option I would use if we are winning the ruck and the opposition only have one gun on baller to sit on. Brown sitting out on a wing makes the opposition decide to either sit their tagger on Deledio in the middle or drag him out to the wing 1-1 with Brown. Either way it frees one of them up.

 

[Crumden]

I'd chuck Foley in definately, he is a clearance king. If our 3 in the circle for each centre bounce was Foley, Bowden/Johnson + Tuck, we should be able to clear the ball or at least not let the opposition clear with ease.

We then have Deledio, Howat, Tambling on the wings to dish it out to.

I've said it before, but I think Foley, Johnson and Tuck in the middle together is too unbalanced. It was the same with Cogs, Tuck and Johnson.

You need a couple of inside mids to get the ball out of the scrimmages, and who can also tag and block, plus an outside mid who can break the lines but can also win his own ball when necessary. So at any one time starting in the middle, I'd have 2 of Johnson, Tuck, Foley, Polo and 1 of Deledio, Bowden, Brown, Tambling.

That's 8 midfielders. During a game you're going to probably use 10 or 12, so others like Raines, Newman, Hyde, Tivendale, Krak, Howat, will get a run through there at some stage.

p.s. I like Realistic Tigers midfield set-ups.

 

[Bentleigh]

There has been recent discussions in a few threads about our midfield and how it leaves alot to be desired, so I thought it should be brought up (yeah, again) on its own.

Our midfield is crying out for more than 20 year old kids, and IMO a solution to this would be to use the elite players we actually have that can play midfield, Browny and Joel, in the centre. Although they've both been great performers down back and up forward, surely we'd be better of with both these players the pill the whole day. Before Joel was moved down back, he was the goal kicking midfielder we need, and was unfairly scruitinised. From what i remember, up until around 04 he was getting around the 500 possesion and 25-30 goal mark for the year.

The midfield is the most important position on the ground, if you can't get hands on the pill, how the hell are you suppose to win a game?

Joel's position down back can surely be covered by someone like his brother, hell we can even chuck lids in to fill that position while he develops more. Browny will be more use to us in the centre, getting 30 quality possesions making 5 or 6 goals a game than in a forward pocket kicking 2-4 goals.

After others opinions on this, might even get shot down for suggesting something as stupid such as using your best players in the midfield, but it's an interesting point to consider.

Good post. I agree.

Joel Bowden was asked if he was looking forward to being released to a flank with Polak comming to take the CHB role. He replyed something along the lines of "I'd rather play midfeild".

Joel, Brown, Deledio in the midfeild
Tuck/Foley extractors
Johnson, Raines run with players.

Joel and Raines into more important postions. The should be able to be covered in the backline by other players trying to make their own stop in the 22.

 

[Weaver]

Joel Bowden was asked if he was looking forward to being released to a flank with Polak comming to take the CHB role. He replyed something along the lines of "I'd rather play midfeild".

Bowden won't be released by Polak. The big part of Bowden's success is because he is outmatched each week. When he plays on Rocca all he has to do is get the ball to ground - and then he slaughters any key forward at ground level. We want Joel Bowden playing on big, slow blokes. That is how he provides drive out of defence.

Polak will take Hall's role. Basically the backpocket. He will do the man-marking job on the genuine big blokes but Bowden will still be plonked at CHB. Whether he has an opponent or not. JB is our point guard. We want the ball in his hands, and we want him with plenty of time to make decisions.

 

[_RT_]

I've said it before, but I think Foley, Johnson and Tuck in the middle together is too unbalanced. It was the same with Cogs, Tuck and Johnson.

You need a couple of inside mids to get the ball out of the scrimmages, and who can also tag and block, plus an outside mid who can break the lines but can also win his own ball when necessary. So at any one time starting in the middle, I'd have 2 of Johnson, Tuck, Foley, Polo and 1 of Deledio, Bowden, Brown, Tambling.

That's 8 midfielders. During a game you're going to probably use 10 or 12, so others like Raines, Newman, Hyde, Tivendale, Krak, Howat, will get a run through there at some stage.

p.s. I like Realistic Tigers midfield set-ups.

Cheers for the feedback. I just think they give it a better spread as you have experienced heads(JB, Johnson, Brown) in the middle who know what to do as well as kids(Foley, Howat, Deledio) who just want to get their hands on the ball first and you also have guys you know if you give them a job will stick to it(Newman, Raines, Polo) that gives you 9 guys you know you can rely on and it allows guys like Tambling, Krakouer to be burst players on the outside for now without the pressure of having to get 15-20 possies each week.

There is a push for Tambling to play midfield more but last year he had as many shots as Franklin just poorer conversion and with his pace and skill he should be left on the HFF/Wing where he can be more of a finisher not the actual guts where I still think he is a bit too light to really cut it (win his own ball) as there is not a big bodied guy that we can have protect him. Rotate him through by all means but do it at the end of quarters when players are feeling the pinch and let him make them chase him around.

I think that is what Wallace is looking at doing having a side that creates pressure not by tackling but by running the opposition ragged. Fast ball movement is what he is looking for and it has been seen on a couple of occasions last year especially the second Dons game when Richo cut loose because we moved the thing quickly and got it in the F50 before they got number back.

 

[banzai]

Dont agree with Joel moving back into midfield, he played there for many years and after early promise was quite disappointing. A lot of midfield work today involves "gut running" (you see players like Ben Cousins throwing up during games) and Joel could never provide this and he isnt great against other midfielders with the contested ball either and his opponent will carve us up. Our outside midfielders should be our younger players, sure we wont match the elite midfields in the comp for a while but i dont think putting our senior players (who have failed in the midfield before) is really the answer. Obviously Nathan Brown will have stints in the middle as he is all class.

Tuck Foley KJ to win the footy
Lids Polo Tambling Howat all must learn to win the footy but can provide the outside run until then. Tambling has actually looked quite good at clearances in the preseason. Brown and maybe Raines can push into midfield as well, although with Raines half backs nearly become midfielders in the modern game anyway. Casserley, Edwards, Meyer, Connors etc will then be the next group to come through.

 

[tigerT]

Dont agree with Joel moving back into midfield, he played there for many years and after early promise was quite disappointing. A lot of midfield work today involves "gut running" (you see players like Ben Cousins throwing up during games) and Joel could never provide this and he isnt great against other midfielders with the contested ball either and his opponent will carve us up. Our outside midfielders should be our younger players, sure we wont match the elite midfields in the comp for a while but i dont think putting our senior players (who have failed in the midfield before) is really the answer. Obviously Nathan Brown will have stints in the middle as he is all class.

Tuck Foley KJ to win the footy
Lids Polo Tambling Howat all must learn to win the footy but can provide the outside run until then. Tambling has actually looked quite good at clearances in the preseason. Brown and maybe Raines can push into midfield as well, although with Raines half backs nearly become midfielders in the modern game anyway. Casserley, Edwards, Meyer, Connors etc will then be the next group to come through.

yeah nice post Banzai, Joels too slow and doesnt run hard enough, i still have nightmares remembering him lumbering in the midfield before he became our general down back. Dont revisit it again, leave him where he is.

 

[lids2004roar]

Tuck / Johnson / Foley

Or

Brett Deledio / Joel Bowden / Nathan Brown





Quality players should be in the MIDDLE!!

 

[Brooksy88]

A lot of midfield work today involves "gut running" (you see players like Ben Cousins throwing up during games) .

binge drinking can do that 2 you.

 

[Punt_Road_Roar]

Best to keep Joel where he is IMO.

Thought he was a big girl when he used to play midfield, perhaps Wallace should use him on the odd occassions in the midfield if we are really desperate.

We do need a few players rotating through the guts but I think more importantly our midfielders need to learn how to apply pressure when we dont have it, that is where we fall down.

 

[ata40]

No such thing as a true midfield anymore.

Modern football requires almost 14 players being able to play a midfield type role.

The midfield is now broken up into 4 skilltypes; extractors, run with, carriers and playmakers

Currently we have a major work in progress problem with carriers and playmakers.