Research Missing DOD or DOB for League players (AFL)

[rbartlett]

John Howard Egan gave evidence on a ''Football Incident'' in 1911. He states he is a Life Member of the League and that he is not affilliated with either team Melbourne or University. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article11612181

If this is your man then he died in 1925 and was born 1865

I wonder if he was married. passed away Sep 3 1925 (if it is same one)
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article2136009

Can I throw a spanner in the works
In Richmond Annual Reports I have, under their life members section they place (deceased) next to the relevant recipient.
For the 1934 Annual Report (ie: a review of the 1934 season) he does not have deceased next to his name
For the 1935 Annual Report (ie: a review of the 1935 season) he has (deceased) written next to him name.
So I'm not sure the 1925 guy is him, unless the club weren't told of his death for 10 years

 

[GreyCrow]

Doesnt matter I found him and he is the Sep 3 1925 death Delete the below

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article2136801

Can I throw a spanner in the works
In Richmond Annual Reports I have, under their life members section they place (deceased) next to the relevant recipient.
For the 1934 Annual Report (ie: a review of the 1934 season) he does not have deceased next to his name
For the 1935 Annual Report (ie: a review of the 1935 season) he has (deceased) written next to him name.
So I'm not sure the 1925 guy is him, unless the club weren't told of his death for 10 years

Anytime. Thats the best way to check. I thought this might get brought up and wondered how you were confident/sure of 1935. I looked for deaths in Vic in 1935 and couldnt find any to match. One in 1934 is of a John (no middle name) Egan in Daylesford aged 80. No place of birth is listed. But this story suggests it cant be him
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article145240380



Another candidate is John Herbert Egan who died 1937 aged 82 born in Coleraine and died Heywood.

 

[rbartlett]

Doesnt matter I found him and he is the Sep 3 1925 death Delete the below

Wow. I'm a bit bamboozled that he died in 1925, and the club didn't realise/update their records until 1935.
I'm guessing that is him in the article (unless it is his father or something). But he was the club's Treasurer for 11 years, and in that obit it says he was an auditor and involved in stock exchange. Thanks

 

[GreyCrow]

Seventh Batch of missing Date of Deaths.

James "Jimmy" Gaynor (Carl 1904) (B: 17/5/1877 . Orig club Carlton District) 27 years of age on debut

I have some concerns over this birthdate. If the following information is true then this must put in doubt the 1877 birth.

If we accept the 1877 birth date , then the only James Gaynor born in that year is the following
EventBirth
Event registration number13868
Registration year1877
Personal information
Family name GAYNOR
Given names James

SexUnknown

Father's name Thomas
Mother's name Bridget (Sheehy)
Place of birth CARLTON

Then the following Obit from November 1900 is a concern.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article9569091

GAYNOR.—On the 16th November, at Duncaha,Co. Limerick, Ireland, James Francis, the beloved and only son of Thos. and Bridget Gaynor, 434 Madeline- street, Carlton, Victoria, aged 23 years and 6 months. R.I.P.
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article191485469

Not certain the above is related but I would be happy to accept they are. I just dont see a sportsman in this tale

The bolded concerned me until a search of the death records shows all the sons born to Thomas and Bridget died prior to 1900 except James. The 23/6 puts the birth date at May 1877. , which is as noted above. Coincidence?

This does preclude the possibility of James being born elsewhere and the above a completely different person.

I also have concerns there seems to be little mention of a Gaynor playing any form of football that I can see. there is a John Gaynor strongly connected to the Maldon area but nothing at Carlton or the Carlton Districts team. That doesnt say I have looked everywhere.

Maybe something to have others comment on

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

I have some concerns over this birthdate. If the following information is true then this must put in doubt the 1877 birth.... Maybe something to have others comment on

I thought Gaynor sounded familiar - they already have!
See List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

 

[GreyCrow]

I thought Gaynor sounded familiar - they already have!
See List thread - Inaccuracy in official records

I even liked the post

I didnt even check the other as I assumed it was a fresh name. Good to see we both are on the same track

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Seventh Batch of missing Date of Deaths.
Cecil "Cec" Richard Graeme (Stk 1901) (B: 3/6/1873 Wesley College) 27 years of age on debut. Family name originally Grimes-Graeme

Wikipedia entry has link to grave record indicating died in South Africa in 1912

EDIT: I've somewhat belatedly noticed his grave indicates DOB was 7/6 rather than 3/6 - can't find anything on Trove to confirm either one as correct.

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Seventh Batch of missing Date of Deaths.

Walter "Wally" Gerald Gant (StK 1908-11, 1914). (B: 7/7/1890. Orig club Melbourne Swimmers). Died June 1957 in South Africa, Western Cape. Exact death date not known

I knew I had a source for my update in Wikipedia - just took me an hour to find it!
From Ancestry - Victorian probate records
Name: Walter G Gant
Death Date: 31 May 1957
Death Place: South Africa
Occupation: Gent
Grant Date: 21 Nov 1957
Grant: PLS
Probate File Number: 520/399

 

[GreyCrow]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70021650I'll throw in some missing Richmond VFA players/ officials Date of Birth/Date of Death queries


Jimmy O'Meara ( Richmond VFA 1893-1896) Went on to play with Sth Melb and Frankston . This article says he was still alive in 1940. (Not sure if related to player of same name for Sth in 1930s)

Fred Wookey (Richmond VFA 1885, 1887-1889 ) From Richmond United , and East Melbourne

James O'Meara nice coincidence looks to have passed Sep 9 1947 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article165034919

Fred Wookey, a good candidate is Fred Wookey born 1862 to William and Hester married Charlotte Sarah in 1889 and passing in 24.11.1929 as per this notice

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article4052275 my only concern is the different name of mother on death cert to birth cert.

 

[rbartlett]

Thanks Grey - much appreciated.
I've added some additional info/players on my orig Richmond VFA post #68

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70021650I'll throw in some missing Richmond VFA players/ officials Date of Birth/Date of Death queries
Jack Hutchinson (Richmond VFA 1904-1907). Port Melbourne 1901-1902. Footscray 1908-09. A significant goalkicker in the VFA

There is a very well researched tree by a family member on Ancestry that identifies him - it includes oral history that describes him as running a fruit & veg shop, not being able to read/write and that Uncle Jack would take the Sporting Globe to his sister, Kit (Catherine) so then she would tell him what was written about him...
John Hutchinson (1880–1949)
Birth 14 FEB 1880 • Collingwood, Victoria, Australia
Death 27 OCT 1949 • Parkville, Victoria, Australia
Has an older bother Alwyn James (who must be the brother A. Hutchinson who played with him at Port Melb)

 

[rbartlett]

At the risk of starting an entire new thread in the History section about 'Ancestry searches' (or should we maybe do that?)
For those who subscribe to Ancestry website - any help on the below 3 is appreciated.
I'm trying to find a relative and hope that maybe somewhere in those Ancestry Trees someone has a contact/email/phone.

Ern Rudduck - (14 March 1884- 4 Sept 1972) (Played Coll/Rich). (Notable family in Dromana back in the day). I've found the name of a granddaughter Belinda Prest - but my email has gone unanswered. So I'm wondering if Ancestry has anything.

Bill Lang (LanFranchi) (6 July 1882- 3 September 1952) . Richmond VFA/VFL. Noted boxer who fought for Heavyweight Title.
I've contacted the Australian National Boxing Hall of Fame of which he was inducted, but no success yet.

Jack Hutchinson - refer to WHL #86 of Ancestry research Found. Thanks WHL

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Adding to your Ancestry suggestion Rhett (I'm in favour of it,) what about trying a genealogical closed FB group?

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

At the risk of starting an entire new thread in the History section about 'Ancestry searches' (or should we maybe do that?)
For those who subscribe to Ancestry website - any help on the below 3 is appreciated.
I'm trying to find a relative and hope that maybe somewhere in those Ancestry Trees someone has a contact/email/phone.

Ern Rudduck - (14 March 1884- 4 Sept 1972) (Played Coll/Rich). (Notable family in Dromana back in the day). I've found the name of a granddaughter Belinda Prest - but my email has gone unanswered. So I'm wondering if Ancestry has anything.

Heath Rudduck has an Ancestry account with tree including Ern - twitter handle @HeathRudduck might be a good contact point - no idea what relation he is...

edit: Sent you a separate message about Jack Hutchinson - hopefully the tree owner gets in touch with you and I have contacted the owner of the only tree that has Bill LanFranchi in it - will let you know if I hear anything

 

[WhiteHartLane23]

Sixth Batch missing Date of Deaths

*James Vickers "Vic" Donald - (Coll 1948) (B: 17/2/1925, Orig club Clifton Hill YCW)

Died 8 Aug 2002 - Albury, New South Wales, Australia
Found tree on Ancestry and contacted the tree owner who turned out to be his daughter.
She wrote:
"My details are 100% correct as James Donald was my dad.
I do not have death certificate but can get if you want ?
My dad is buried in the Wangaratta Cemetery next to my Mum.
I can search old photos for pictures of grave site ?
If you need photos I have some..."
...I told her I was happy to take her word for it!

 

[Harry Hook]

Copied over from the "war thread"

Can the the details Norm Davison be checked.

Norm Davison Geelong 1906

The Age 7 June 1915
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article154957803

Note the entry for Davison spills over into the second column and says he played for Geelong. It also says he was wounded.

Wikipedia says he died in 1958. We can check this easily enough as given he was injured the AWM can give us his full name and verify if the DOB is correct. Wikipedia lists his dob as being in 1888 which may or may not add up to the biographical data in the newspaper report.

 

[Harry Hook]

Copied over from the "war" thread.

Re Walter Scott - St Kilda

W Scott wounded

Williamstown Chronicle

19 June 1915

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article69980718

Could this be Wally Scott who played for the Saints between 1904 -1911?

Possible confirmation here of Walter Scott

The Age 18 May 1915

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article154957189

Which means we can confirm also Walter Scott's dob\dod details.

 

[GreyCrow]

Copied over from the "war thread"

Can the the details Norm Davison be checked.

Norm Davison Geelong 1906

The Age 7 June 1915
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article154957803

Note the entry for Davison spills over into the second column and says he played for Geelong. It also says he was wounded.

Wikipedia says he died in 1958. We can check this easily enough as given he was injured the AWM can give us his full name and verify if the DOB is correct. Wikipedia lists his dob as being in 1888 which may or may not add up to the biographical data in the newspaper report.

AIF site gives full name as Norman McNicol Davison of firstly Geelong then Albert Park. Age 26 in 1914 gives an approximate Birth of 1888. This article in AIF says he was born in Queensland ,married an English girl and lived and died in UK.

Married Mabel Lilian Napp at the Wesleyan Chapel, Shefford, Bedfordshire, Enhgland and had one child (Keith) born on 5 September 1923

Joined the R.A.F. on 16 September 1941 (Flight Sergeant) and served in England, Scotland and India during World War II
Date of death 20 December 1958 - London
Age at death 70
Place of burial Foster Hill Road Cemetery, Bedford, England - 24 December 1958

https://www.aif.adfa.edu.au/showPerson?pid=74929


A further entry for 1917 says he re-enlisted after his wounds healed and the AIF site confirms. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article119715931

Birth in Queensland from QBDM
1888 B40725 Norman McNicoll Davison Henry Elizabeth McNicoll

FindMyPast have an entry for a 1958 death in Holborn London ( area of the West End)

 

[the croucher]

<snip>

Bill Lang (LanFranchi) (6 July 1882- 3 September 1952) . Richmond VFA/VFL. Noted boxer who fought for Heavyweight Title.
I've contacted the Australian National Boxing Hall of Fame of which he was inducted, but no success yet.
<snip>

Have just come across this obituary for Lang as published in the Sporting Globe
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/178178602

In later years the author Merv Williams was offsider to Ron Casey during the late 1960s/early 1970s broadcasts of TV Ringside.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Where is this war thread Harry Hook?

Also, for some reason I thought you were a Hawks fan.

 

[Harry Hook]

Have just come across this obituary for Lang as published in the Sporting Globe
http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/178178602

In later years the author Merv Williams was offsider to Ron Casey during the late 1960s/early 1970s broadcasts of TV Ringside.

I'm familiar with Bruiser Lang, well not literally as I'm not that old and didn't see any of his fights.

From memory he played with North Fremantle and then went on to fight for a world championship.

It was huge news at the time.

From memory. if you use the search function "bruiser lang" you may get a bit more information. Trove is being temperamental at the moment so I can't but I'm sure that's what his nickname in about 1908 - 1910 was.

 

[Harry Hook]

Where is this war thread Harry Hook?

Also, for some reason I thought you were a Hawks fan.

Players who served in War

 

[rbartlett]

.

I've never come across Bill Lang as "Bruiser Lang" in my research. That may another boxer. Or I may be wrong.
Anyhow, I know WHL is attempt contact to relative through Ancestry. So thanks all for your assistance.

 

[Harry Hook]

I've never come across Bill Lang as "Bruiser Lang" in my research. That may another boxer. Or I may be wrong.
Anyhow, I know WHL is attempt contact to relative through Ancestry. So thanks all for your assistance.

It's not. Look up the wikipedia entry for Bill Lang the boxer.

As I say I know the story from a few years ago. Lang had a bout with Tommy Burns in 1908 and the press leading up to it referred to his football background.

Also played a year or two for North Frematle .

cf this article here from 1908

http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article5758441

 

[GreyCrow]

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70021650I'll throw in some missing Richmond VFA players/ officials Date of Birth/Date of Death queries

Alf Searle ( Richmond VFA 1885-1890, 1893) From Stanley, and Scotch College 22 May 1916 http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article2098140 The Obit of the brother George states education at Scotch and lived in Richmond. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article2098140 Is that enough?


Richard Joseph Knell (Richmond VFA 1905-1906) I've found he died circa June 1943, and was buried in Fawkner Cemetery, but I can't find his exact death date. 22 June Burial. http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article206842968 How long do Catholics wait?


John "Jack" Smith ( Richmond VFA 1905-06). We know his father was George Smith (Rich/Carl) who died 31 May 1905 , aged 50/51 , and his brother was Dave Smith (Richmond/Ess/Test Cricketer). St Kilda Secretary? http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article181659527 if so he is alive after 1943

Who is Laird Smith? http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article71776364 Retirement 1956 where Richmond time gets mentioned again
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article71793428

Appreciate some clarity on this