Research Missing DOD or DOB for League players (AFL)

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But it does look like it should be Percival Stuart:
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I'd be banking on this one being the only set of details they need.
 

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Also, Ancestry has him as 28-12-1933 at Port Melbourne as his basic death details.

And this obit matches that date of death.

Interesting! AustralianFootball.com has the 28th: https://australianfootball.com/players/player/john+allan/1627
Yet Collingwood Forever and Wikipedia have the 27th.

I'll let the Collingwood folks know, having already mentioned the change in DOB.
 
The Bill Hickey Wikipedia page has been (sort of) updated already, but it may have been a rush job!:
I'm not sure if the url can be/is meant to be changed.
A late job more than a rush job! I decided to try to confirm the death and other details as I worked down the list and ended up taking a long time and often confusing myself. I'll fix the link, easily done.

As for Stuart/Stewart it may have just been personal preference, either by the registrar at birth or him during his life.
 
Email from Col Hutchison

"We have no accessed the date of births for the following players"
WATSON Albert
b. 1871 at Harr. (No. 16691) - DOB : 11/06/1871
player - (now) Abe Watson, Ess, 1898
So... what a rabbit hole this has taken me. Or should I say Possum hole.

These 2 games by Abe Watson in 1898 were previously allocated to William "Poss" Watson, a former Essendon VFA champ (1891-1894), but who was well and truly established in Western Australia playing for Freo in 1898.

The guy won 4 flags for Essendon and 3 more for Freo in 8 years! He was the Scotty Pippen to Albert Thurgood's Jordan. But he seems to have been completely ignored. Not even in the WA Footy Hall of Fame.

Anyway, I see that *Paul* has listed Abe as "Unknown Watson" and Oliver Gigacz still has Poss playing for 2 teams in 1898 (don't delete Poss, just add Abe/Albert). Once they are cleaned up, I'll create Abe in wikipedia. Any idea of a DOD for Abe? Can't seem to find him in the Vic records. Parents from the above birth record are William George and Sarah Lancaster.

Ok, looks like this is him, yet another Watson who moved to Freo! DOD 29/11/1932.
 
Excuse my ignorance, so since I posted that email from Col, is there any chances you need to me to add on the spreadsheet that has been brought up as a result of the email?
 
So... what a rabbit hole this has taken me. Or should I say Possum hole.

These 2 games by Abe Watson in 1898 were previously allocated to William "Poss" Watson, a former Essendon VFA champ (1891-1894), but who was well and truly established in Western Australia playing for Freo in 1898.

The guy won 4 flags for Essendon and 3 more for Freo in 8 years! He was the Scotty Pippen to Albert Thurgood's Jordan. But he seems to have been completely ignored. Not even in the WA Footy Hall of Fame.

Anyway, I see that *Paul* has listed Abe as "Unknown Watson" and Oliver Gigacz still has Poss playing for 2 teams in 1898 (don't delete Poss, just add Abe/Albert). Once they are cleaned up, I'll create Abe in wikipedia. Any idea of a DOD for Abe? Can't seem to find him in the Vic records. Parents from the above birth record are William George and Sarah Lancaster.

Ok, looks like this is him, yet another Watson who moved to Freo! DOD 29/11/1932.

Thanks Pope, AF has been updated..

Abe


Poss

 
So... what a rabbit hole this has taken me. Or should I say Possum hole.

These 2 games by Abe Watson in 1898 were previously allocated to William "Poss" Watson, a former Essendon VFA champ (1891-1894), but who was well and truly established in Western Australia playing for Freo in 1898.

The guy won 4 flags for Essendon and 3 more for Freo in 8 years! He was the Scotty Pippen to Albert Thurgood's Jordan. But he seems to have been completely ignored. Not even in the WA Footy Hall of Fame.

Anyway, I see that *Paul* has listed Abe as "Unknown Watson" and Oliver Gigacz still has Poss playing for 2 teams in 1898 (don't delete Poss, just add Abe/Albert). Once they are cleaned up, I'll create Abe in wikipedia. Any idea of a DOD for Abe? Can't seem to find him in the Vic records. Parents from the above birth record are William George and Sarah Lancaster.

Ok, looks like this is him, yet another Watson who moved to Freo! DOD 29/11/1932.
Was about to create the wikipedia article for Abe, and it looks like ol' Watty, as he was called in his funeral notice, was a POW in WWI. 51st Battalion. Does the AFL need to be advised of this?
 
Still needs confirmation and date but it looks like Ron Pocock (Footscray 1949) died in 2012...




Another possible one is that Frank McDowell (Footscray 1955) died on 02/10/2003. The death notice says age 69 which matches year of birth.


 
Last edited:

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Updated 31 March 2020


6 *Desmond 'Des' Clyde Bell b:23/5/1923 Melb 1946-1948 alive in 2016
7 *Ronald "Ron" Arthur Bickley b:21/10/1926 Fitz 1949-1951 alive #post 561 April 2 2018
13 *Alfred Joseph Callick b:14/8/1925 SthMelb 1943,1946-1950 alive in 2016
36 *Gordon Stanley Green b:31/5/1925 NthMelb 1942 alive in 2017
68 *James "Jim" Malone b:13/11/1925 NthMelb 1945-52 still living as of March 29 2018


11 Henry "Harry" John Brown b:16/10/1903 St Kilda 1927
12 Samuel Otto John Buck b:15/11/1876 Carlton 1897
18 Jack Louis Cliff b:23/5/1919 StK 1940-42
21 Eugene Francis "Frank" Corby b:24/12/1924 Coll:1948
22 Frederick "Fred" Rowland Coulsell b:17/12/1905 Nth:1927,Ess 1931
23 Robert "Bobby" Ritchie Craig b:29/3/1882 Melb 1902
33 James "Jimmy" Gaynor b:17/5/1877 Carl 1904
34 Maxwell "Max" Herbert Glass b:2/10/1925 Sth 1945
39 Roger"Bill" Musgrove Hearn b:4/3/1914 Rich 1935
40 Edward "Ted" Page Heffernan b:16/5/1869 Carl 1897
49 Charles "Charlie" Herbert Jenkins b:17/6/1878 Fitz 1898
52 *Geoffrey John Kerr b:7/4/1925 Stk 1945;1947

54 Edmund Kirwin b:31/3/1876 StKilda 1898
59 William "Billy" Francis Roy Leahy b:7/3/1911 Foots 1934-1936
60 Thomas "Tom" Francis Lee b:11/12/1874 Coll 1897-98
63 George Lockwood b:6/12/1872 Geel 1899-1901,Coll 1902-04
71 John "Joe" Albert Marchant b:11/9/1884 StKilda 1904
72 Joseph "Joe" Thomas Marr b:9/08/1880 Carlton1900-02, Ess:1903 Died Prior 1918
74 Charlie McCartney b:26/2/1874 SthMelb 1897,Ess 1899

76 Patrick "Paddy" John McDonald b:27/3/1897 Ess 1918-19
78 John "Jack" James McKenzie b:19/8/1908 Ess 1929
84 Alfred "Alf" Carl Frank Neeson b:15/6/1914 Fitz 1935-36, Haw 1936-38
87 Michael "Mick" Joseph O'Hagan b:22/1/1878 StK 1897
88 *George Henry Prismall b:10/3/1915 Ess 1935
89 *Robert "Bob" Reid b:8/6/1924 Footscray 1948-49
90 Samuel "Sam" Alexander Reid b:17/6/1872 Carlton 1897
94 Archibald Robinson b:9/7/1890 Richmond 1911
95 Raymond Paul Ross b:2/5/1900 Ess 1921
97 Alan James "Ginger" Ryan b:26/9/1909 Melb 1932-33,Coll 1934-38
103 James "Jim" William Smith b:11/2/1887 Sth 1906

110 James "Jim" Scott Sutherland b:10/5/1900 Sth 1924
116 *Albert "Alby" Joseph Williams b:3/8/1916 NthMelb 1943
117 William "Billy" Francis Williams b:2/5/1888 StKilda 1907
118 William "Bill" Henry Woods b:21/8/1890 Geelong 1909

32 *Harry Leslie "Les" Gardner b:30/9/1923 StK 1947 alive 2014 passed away May 2019
53 *James "Jim" Francis Kirby b:21/12/1922 NthM 1946 passed away 24/8/1998 #post 796

75 *James "Jim" Kenneth McDonald b:24/6/1916 Melb 1942 To Be Confirmed
105 *Stanley Vincent Smith b:17/4/1925 Coll 1947-50 - listed in AFL Obits

James William McDonald has the same relationship as Alan - from the List Inaccuracy Thread #post 2450
Geoff Kerr is listed as passing in May in the Recent Deaths thread

I will adjust when I get home

*Paul*
rbartlett
Oliver Gigacz
ThePope
 
Confirming Geoffrey John Kerr St Kilda as passing

Date listed: 28/5/2020
KERR, Geoffrey John

07.04.1925 - 26.05.2020 Passed away peacefully. Aged 95 years. Loved husband of Marion (dec). Father and father-in-law of xxxx. Loving grandfather and Great grandfather. Dearest friend of xxx Former St Kilda player. Private Funeral. 'SO MOTE IT BE'

Publication: Herald Sun
 
Updated 30 July 2020


6 *Desmond 'Des' Clyde Bell b:23/5/1923 Melb 1946-1948 alive in 2016
7 *Ronald "Ron" Arthur Bickley b:21/10/1926 Fitz 1949-1951 alive #post 561 April 2 2018
13 *Alfred Joseph Callick b:14/8/1925 SthMelb 1943,1946-1950 alive in 2016
36 *Gordon Stanley Green b:31/5/1925 NthMelb 1942 alive in 2017
68 *James "Jim" Malone b:13/11/1925 NthMelb 1945-52 still living as of March 29 2018


11 Henry "Harry" John Brown b:16/10/1903 St Kilda 1927
12 Samuel Otto John Buck b:15/11/1876 Carlton 1897
18 Jack Louis Cliff b:23/5/1919 StK 1940-42
21 Eugene Francis "Frank" Corby b:24/12/1924 Coll:1948
22 Frederick "Fred" Rowland Coulsell b:17/12/1905 Nth:1927,Ess 1931
23 Robert "Bobby" Ritchie Craig b:29/3/1882 Melb 1902
33 James "Jimmy" Gaynor b:17/5/1877 Carl 1904
34 Maxwell "Max" Herbert Glass b:2/10/1925 Sth 1945
39 Roger"Bill" Musgrove Hearn b:4/3/1914 Rich 1935
40 Edward "Ted" Page Heffernan b:16/5/1869 Carl 1897
49 Charles "Charlie" Herbert Jenkins b:17/6/1878 Fitz 1898


54 Edmund Kirwin b:31/3/1876 StKilda 1898
59 William "Billy" Francis Roy Leahy b:7/3/1911 Foots 1934-1936
60 Thomas "Tom" Francis Lee b:11/12/1874 Coll 1897-98
63 George Lockwood b:6/12/1872 Geel 1899-1901,Coll 1902-04
71 John "Joe" Albert Marchant b:11/9/1884 StKilda 1904
72 Joseph "Joe" Thomas Marr b:9/08/1880 Carlton1900-02, Ess:1903 Died Prior 1918
74 Charlie McCartney b:26/2/1874 SthMelb 1897,Ess 1899

76 Patrick "Paddy" John McDonald b:27/3/1897 Ess 1918-19
78 John "Jack" James McKenzie b:19/8/1908 Ess 1929
84 Alfred "Alf" Carl Frank Neeson b:15/6/1914 Fitz 1935-36, Haw 1936-38
87 Michael "Mick" Joseph O'Hagan b:22/1/1878 StK 1897
88 *George Henry Prismall b:10/3/1915 Ess 1935
89 *Robert "Bob" Reid b:8/6/1924 Footscray 1948-49
90 Samuel "Sam" Alexander Reid b:17/6/1872 Carlton 1897
94 Archibald Robinson b:9/7/1890 Richmond 1911
95 Raymond Paul Ross b:2/5/1900 Ess 1921
97 Alan James "Ginger" Ryan b:26/9/1909 Melb 1932-33,Coll 1934-38
103 James "Jim" William Smith b:11/2/1887 Sth 1906

110 James "Jim" Scott Sutherland b:10/5/1900 Sth 1924
116 *Albert "Alby" Joseph Williams b:3/8/1916 NthMelb 1943
117 William "Billy" Francis Williams b:2/5/1888 StKilda 1907
118 William "Bill" Henry Woods b:21/8/1890 Geelong 1909


52 *Geoffrey John Kerr b:7/4/1925 Stk 1945;1947 26/5/2020

32 *Harry Leslie "Les" Gardner b:30/9/1923 StK 1947
alive 2014 passed away May 2019
53 *James "Jim" Francis Kirby b:21/12/1922 NthM 1946 passed away 24/8/1998 #post 796

75 *James "Jim" Kenneth McDonald b:24/6/1916 Melb 1942 To Be Confirmed
105 *Stanley Vincent Smith b:17/4/1925 Coll 1947-50 - listed in AFL Obits

James William McDonald has the same relationship as Alan - from the List Inaccuracy Thread #post 2450
 
Kevin Tame, 3 games for Fitzroy in 1952, appears to have died 29 July 1995. DOB matches.

I know this whole thread is sort of macabre in its nature (but of course, wholly necessary), but does anyone else feel a little sad when we unearth deaths like these that are, in a way, semi-recent? That for 25 years no one knew this man well enough to have the record set officially. I dunno, just a little thought that popped into my head.
 
As an aside, what's the latest D.O.B. that we can categorically rule the person out as being alive?

I'll say 8 February 1909 even though that's being generous. That date is 111 years 231 days ago (I believe), which is the exact age of the current oldest living man on Earth.
Wikipedia has categories for "living people", "possibly living people" and "date of death missing". They use 90 years old for possibly living and 115 for DOD missing.
 
I know this whole thread is sort of macabre in its nature (but of course, wholly necessary), but does anyone else feel a little sad when we unearth deaths like these that are, in a way, semi-recent? That for 25 years no one knew this man well enough to have the record set officially. I dunno, just a little thought that popped into my head.
I think it is more often that people not don't know the deceased well enough to correct the official record, but that the VFL games played were only a minor part of the man's life, that no one thinks that anyone would be interested. Many families would think that no one at the clubs or the AFL would care if Granddad, who played a few games for Fitzroy or South Melb 50-70 years ago, had died. Plenty of other things to worry about after a death.

Hopefully anyone related who comes across these pages understands that we only want to recognise as accurately as possible everyone's contribution to our great game, no matter how small they considered it.

And for a long time, "correcting the official record" would have meant letters or phone calls to people unknown in the AFL system, not public records/forums like this or Wikipedia.
 
I think it is more often that people not don't know the deceased well enough to correct the official record, but that the VFL games played were only a minor part of the man's life, that no one thinks that anyone would be interested. Many families would think that no one at the clubs or the AFL would care if Granddad, who played a few games for Fitzroy or South Melb 50-70 years ago, had died. Plenty of other things to worry about after a death.

Hopefully anyone related who comes across these pages understands that we only want to recognise as accurately as possible everyone's contribution to our great game, no matter how small they considered it.

And for a long time, "correcting the official record" would have meant letters or phone calls to people unknown in the AFL system, not public records/forums like this or Wikipedia.

Well said Pope, that makes sense to me. Thanks for all the work you do.
 

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