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Missing Dog - Match Winner Wanted (another rant)

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JJHunter

Club Legend
Jan 15, 2008
2,390
2,119
Toorak
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Ok I have held this thought for sometime now and it continues to be pressed on my brain after every failure against top 4 teams in big matches where we are in winning positions but failed to get the chocolates.

We simply don't and havent had a match winner that performs in big contests when it matters the most.

When the game is there to be won against top 4 sides or in massive games like the weekend.... who is in our list to grab the game by the balls and take the team over the line ???

Look back at our lost pre-lims... Riewoldt and Lenny got the job done for the saints... Before that types like ablett and bartel and Chapman got the job done. Thats why Hawthorn IMO are rated as challengers ... they have Buddy, Mitchell and Hodge among others that can get a team over the line in a close one that most of the big clashes are.

Yet when the scores are close in the last 5 minutes of a match I look at our team and teams in the last 5 or so years and we have no one IMO.

On the positive side...
- I think Griffen is growing into that sort of person and is the closest thing we do have to it.
- It kills me to say cause I am not a fan but I saw signs in Higgins last quarter that he may have what it takes to do it. He was the one that lifted us when we went 20 points down.

On the negative side....
- Johno was never able to do it ... on a number of occasions had shots to win or seal games but missed under the pressure of it all.

- Akka and Hall while in their prime were able to do it the bulldogs versions are not.

- Cooney - our brownlow medalist - I am afraid to say that we have seen his best come and go. 2008 was a terrific year for him but for whatever reason people want to make for him his last two years have just been ok.... Whats been terrible is his disposal. Second half of last year and so far this year his kicking has been simply dreadful and it cost us dearly the other night when he had that chance to take the team to a win.

- Boyd/Cross - These blokes are the engine... Engines live under the hood and are by no means the finishers that could have the affect a Bartel or a Chapman would on a game when it matters most.

Question is which of our youngsters are going to have that element to their games to do it for us moving forward.... Id love to hear a commentator say " He is just imposing himself on this contest" about one of our players deep into the last quarter... cause I cannot see any outside of griffen that have it in their make up.
 
Griffen and Higgins are obvious ones although Higgins still has to prove it, Cooney and Murphy when fit are also capable of turning a game. But we really need someone in the forward half, if Grant could turn himslef into this sort of player and it would enhance our chances 3 fold, he has the ability to, whether he has the desire and the mental application is questionable though.

How quickly you forget with Johnson though, he was a matchwinner in 10 times the number of matches that he missed a chance to win a game. Get a tape out of his 300th if you need any proof.
 
How quickly you forget with Johnson though, he was a matchwinner in 10 times the number of matches that he missed a chance to win a game. Get a tape out of his 300th if you need any proof.

Don't disagree but Im talking about big matches... Finals, games against top 4 teams, interstate matches. Any of those come to mind ? His 300th was against adelaide in Melbourne - A game we were expected to win. They finsihed 5th but 2.5 games clear fo them we were.
 
Don't disagree but Im talking about big matches... Finals, games against top 4 teams, interstate matches. Any of those come to mind ? His 300th was against adelaide in Melbourne - A game we were expected to win. They finsihed 5th but 2.5 games clear fo them we were.

Yes here's a couple;

2006 - Beat Premier West Coast at Subi, Brad Johnson instrumental kicking 4.4.

2007 - Round 1 Brad Johnson kicks 8 goals on Harley and Scarlett, Cats become the most dominate team that year of last decade.

2009 - Came in needing to win all 3 of last games to make top 4, played a good role in first 2 and was matchwinner against Collingwood kicking 4 goals and one of best in performace to cement 3rd spot.
As I said, how quickly you forget.
 

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Yes here's a couple;

2006 - Beat Premier West Coast at Subi, Brad Johnson instrumental kicking 4.4.
Didn't poll a Brownlow vote in that game Johno....Then 10 weeks later that year we played them again in a final - Lost by around 80 points - Big game ...?

2007 - Round 1 Brad Johnson kicks 8 goals on Harley and Scarlett, Cats become the most dominate team that year of last decade.
The cats didnt play finals in 2006 - so hardly a big crunch match against a top 4 side in round 1 2007.

2009 - Came in needing to win all 3 of last games to make top 4, played a good role in first 2 and was matchwinner against Collingwood kicking 4 goals and one of best in performace to cement 3rd spot.
Yeh a few good wins there. Johno polled 1 vote in the game against the Pies. Without recalling the specifics Ill give you that one.

As I said, how quickly you forget.

Wow I know Johno played good games and yes would have been instrumental in us winning a heap of games. But I am talking about when a game was in the balance deep into the last quarter and he win it off his own boot. I am willing to concede that over 300+ games there may be one or two.... but I just cannot recall it happening regularly or infact 10 times (as you suggested) more than when he missed a chance to do so.

In the last 5 years we have struggled to have anyone drag us over the line against top 4 teams and in tight finals matches in the last 5 years. Thats a massive problemf or us.

Fact is we have close enough to no one to do it for us now... and that may just be what never gets this group into a grand final.
 
Yes here's a couple;

2006 - Beat Premier West Coast at Subi, Brad Johnson instrumental kicking 4.4.

2007 - Round 1 Brad Johnson kicks 8 goals on Harley and Scarlett, Cats become the most dominate team that year of last decade.

2009 - Came in needing to win all 3 of last games to make top 4, played a good role in first 2 and was matchwinner against Collingwood kicking 4 goals and one of best in performace to cement 3rd spot.
As I said, how quickly you forget.

I actually don't think the burden of proof should be on you in this. I think Cyclops needs to prove Johnno wasn'ta matchwinner in big games. He missed one shot to win a big game in his career (against Geelong) the other was against North which doesn't really count. Hell even Wayne Carey made a couple of mistakes in his career...
 
Ok I have held this thought for sometime now and it continues to be pressed on my brain after every failure against top 4 teams in big matches where we are in winning positions but failed to get the chocolates.

We simply don't and havent had a match winner that performs in big contests when it matters the most.

When the game is there to be won against top 4 sides or in massive games like the weekend.... who is in our list to grab the game by the balls and take the team over the line ???

Look back at our lost pre-lims... Riewoldt and Lenny got the job done for the saints... Before that types like ablett and bartel and Chapman got the job done. Thats why Hawthorn IMO are rated as challengers ... they have Buddy, Mitchell and Hodge among others that can get a team over the line in a close one that most of the big clashes are.

Yet when the scores are close in the last 5 minutes of a match I look at our team and teams in the last 5 or so years and we have no one IMO.

On the positive side...
- I think Griffen is growing into that sort of person and is the closest thing we do have to it.
- It kills me to say cause I am not a fan but I saw signs in Higgins last quarter that he may have what it takes to do it. He was the one that lifted us when we went 20 points down.

On the negative side....
- Johno was never able to do it ... on a number of occasions had shots to win or seal games but missed under the pressure of it all.

- Akka and Hall while in their prime were able to do it the bulldogs versions are not.

- Cooney - our brownlow medalist - I am afraid to say that we have seen his best come and go. 2008 was a terrific year for him but for whatever reason people want to make for him his last two years have just been ok.... Whats been terrible is his disposal. Second half of last year and so far this year his kicking has been simply dreadful and it cost us dearly the other night when he had that chance to take the team to a win.

- Boyd/Cross - These blokes are the engine... Engines live under the hood and are by no means the finishers that could have the affect a Bartel or a Chapman would on a game when it matters most.

Question is which of our youngsters are going to have that element to their games to do it for us moving forward.... Id love to hear a commentator say " He is just imposing himself on this contest" about one of our players deep into the last quarter... cause I cannot see any outside of griffen that have it in their make up.


as much as it hurts to say i agree with the above.:mad:

And the only player that is a match winner imo is lakey,
 
Lets get this bit out of the way. Johnno's ended around 2006. During most of his best years we were an ordinary team. However, during those years, if we were close it was consistently Johnno who got us over the line.

Unfortunately, too many supporters form their opinions based entirely on media hype. Players from the big clubs get inflated whilst players from the smaller clubs are under-rated. For 5 years Brad Johnson was absolutely elite - it took the media until 2006 to notice. By the time they noticed and umpires started to give him votes he was virtually past his prime.

For the bulldog supporters who went to live games in 2005 and 2006, Johnson was not only a match winner in crunch games, he was the most effective player in the AFL. I believe in 2006 he was awarded the All Australian Captaincy. I believe he came 3rd in the Brownlow but only started to get votes in the later rounds after the media hyped him. He was a small forward who kicked 50, 60, 70 a season, whilst averaging over 20 possessions and completing contested marks against the oppositions best defenders.

All things being the same, if we had the Johnson of 2005-06 in 2008/09/10 well those cups would be engraved with entirely different names.

The stars just did not align.
 
Lets get this bit out of the way. Johnno's ended around 2006. During most of his best years we were an ordinary team. However, during those years, if we were close it was consistently Johnno who got us over the line.

Unfortunately, too many supporters form their opinions based entirely on media hype. Players from the big clubs get inflated whilst players from the smaller clubs are under-rated. For 5 years Brad Johnson was absolutely elite - it took the media until 2006 to notice. By the time they noticed and umpires started to give him votes he was virtually past his prime.

For the bulldog supporters who went to live games in 2005 and 2006, Johnson was not only a match winner in crunch games, he was the most effective player in the AFL. I believe in 2006 he was awarded the All Australian Captaincy. I believe he came 3rd in the Brownlow but only started to get votes in the later rounds after the media hyped him. He was a small forward who kicked 50, 60, 70 a season, whilst averaging over 20 possessions and completing contested marks against the oppositions best defenders.

All things being the same, if we had the Johnson of 2005-06 in 2008/09/10 well those cups would be engraved with entirely different names.

The stars just did not align.

Can argue with anything you said here. Although i do believe the best year he had was in 2006. He was amazing then
 
We have a couple. Pity they aren't playing forward where they should. Higgins is an AA quality forward pocket. Murphy is the best leading CHF in the league. They aren't exactly being wasted in their current roles, but they could be game winners in their proper positions.

Griffen and Ward are developing into absolute GUNS. Griff has a few years on Ward, but Ward is going to be a star.
 
Today, we do have a genuine match winning superstar. Unfortunately, even though he won a Brownlow the guy has never got out of 3rd gear. Worse still, even in third gear he is oblivious to how much more he can achieve; his first 10 yards of acceleration are second to none but he never uses it to evade, to get a shot at goal, he coasts. He uses his speed to defensively but not offensively.

It is a sad waste for us and him. Here is a player talented enough to be in the hall of fame but he and we are quickly running out of time.
 

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I like most here can see that Cooney is well down on his Brownlow form. Very well down. I hope its just the interrupted pre-season but he was down most of last year as well. Very troubling.

We have Z.Skinner waiting in the wings though whom I have faith will be that X-factor we need to close out games....don't really see it coming from any other current player we have other than possibly one Mr Josh Hill. (I'm talking about the goal kicking/attacking sense of the game, not necessarrily possessions or clearances)
 
Agree with the main point - we don't have a Hodge or a Chapman or whoever else to drag us over the line.

However, I'm not sure why a player's performance is being based on Brownlow votes of all things?

Also, Johnno's 2006 season was one of the best single-seasons by an individual player of the last decade. Top 5.
 

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Missing Dog - Match Winner Wanted (another rant)

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