MRP / Trib. MRP and Tribunal - 2024 - Rd 5 - Charlie Cameron 1 week?

[LukeParkerno1]

Exactly. If a fine everyone would have said he deserves it because you dont throw your leg out even if it doesnt do much damage.

2 players got fines for tripping and Im pretty sure one of them involved throwing a leg out to trip and noone seems to care about that.

I just don't think it's that big a deal to be honest, a little dumb and as a captain needs to pull his head in but it's not a suspension offence.

 

[QuietB]

I would argue that what Silicy did didn't actually constitute a 'kick'. Sure, his foot briefly touched McGrath's leg, but more as a cradling act to assist McGrath with his gymnastics. I doubt McGrath even felt it. Calling it a 'kick' is like calling a gentle stroke of a cheek a 'slap'.

I actually thought he was thinking of sweeping McGraths legs like the school yard bully he probably was - thankfully he thought better of it and didn't do it.

 

[Back One Out]

I just don't think it's that big a deal to be honest, a little dumb and as a captain needs to pull his head in but it's not a suspension offence.

This is the general consensus. But I think it's a little strange that nobody in the media has commented about the lack of protection Sicily received from the umpires after Guelfi had kicked the goal.

• Jake Stringer ran at him and dropped his shoulder into him
• Jade Gresham then bumped into him from behind
• And then Andy McGrath decided he too would charge in and try to bump him, before Sicily decided f**k this and picked McGrath up and dropped him.

Also worth noting that 9 Essendon players had already surrounded Sicily when the skirmish occurred. They didn't run in to "protect" their teammate. They were already right there in what was clearly a premeditated ploy to target Sicily and get under his skin. It worked, didn't it? They milked another bullshit free. 2 bullshit frees against Sicily & 2 shots at goal in the opening minute.

If the umpires had done their job and penalised the Essendon players for bumping Sicily while the play was dead (and the ball was more than 5 metres away) then Sicily wouldn't have to take the law into his own hands to protect himself.

Interesting that nobody in the media points this out. Typical that everyone would pile on Sicily and call him undisciplined, etc, etc..

Can you imagine the reaction if half the Hawthorn team targeted Dyson Heppell after the ball was kicked through for a goal and 3 Hawks were laying into him with unnecessary bumps ? I reckon the commentary would be slightly different. (Unsociable Hawks, blah blah blah)

What would you think if Luke Parker had half the opposition laying into him when the ball was in the crowd? Would you be saying he needs to pull his head in? What's Sicily supposed to do in that situation? Just stand there, do nothing and let every Essendon flog just bump into him?




G.Lyon: "Concerted effort from all the Essendon boys to get to Sicily there, Browny..."
J.Brown: "Yeah... He may have had his name circled in the pre-game..."

 

[CrowToon]

3 players ganging up on him and knocking him to the ground wasnt the coward act?

Really?

So they were the tough guys and him defending himself was the cowardly thing to do?

You are putting words in my mouth. I dont condone any of that scuffle or think any of them are brave.

 

[CrowToon]

It was a minor thing it was dealt with via the fine system, honestly if it was given a fine on Monday everyone would have been fine with it. Pass on suspending him for a kick that wouldn't have hurt a fly, even McGrath said it on multiple occasions.

I wouldn't have been fine with it. Fine isn't strong enough

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I wouldn't have been fine with it. Fine isn't strong enough

You are only complaining because it’s an opposition player not yours. Come off it, the incident is minor at worst.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

You are putting words in my mouth. I dont condone any of that scuffle or think any of them are brave.

But by your logic it’s worthy of a suspension too. After all it would be horrible for kids to see this and emulate it at junior levels and all

 

[Jim Prideaux]

In terms of Sicily, it is likely the correct outcome when applying the guidelines.

But i would prefer generally that the rules are changed (like they were at the start of this year for striking) so that any intentional kick is a minimum week, regardless of impact severity or location.
Just such a grubby look.

Don’t disagree with this. It was a stupid act, and broadly speaking things like it should probably get a week. However, grubby acts exactly like it don’t, and so he shouldn’t have in this case.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Right call.

Now if only the weak as piss club I had followed has dared to challenge the Redman suspension we would be all gravy.

I surprised they didn’t after Hewitt.

 

[CrowToon]

You are only complaining because it’s an opposition player not yours. Come off it, the incident is minor at worst.

Im on record as saying McHenry should be sanctioned for ducking when he was doing it too much. I'd happily see a Crow banned for the greater good of the game. Bookmark it

 

[CrowToon]

But by your logic it’s worthy of a suspension too. After all it would be horrible for kids to see this and emulate it at junior levels and all

I want to see it out of the game too yes. It adds nothing.

 

[smeltitdeltit]

I want to see it out of the game too yes. It adds nothing.

So why aren’t you fomenting for this as well?

 

[CrowToon]

So why aren’t you fomenting for this as well?

I've been consistent in my opposition to non-footballing violence for a long time. I'm very happy if you wish to peruse my posting history to see that.

I hate that kids and adults are leaving the game because the risk of having someone be violent toward them is too great.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

The irony in that its only the Hawks fans who think it was right that he got off is not lost on me.

Kicking, regardless of how hard or light it was, has no part in our game whatsoever !!

You cannot defend that sort of behaviour, it's disgraceful & plainly wrong.

"regardless of how hard or light it was"

So an action that has literally no ability to hurt someone - that the receiver literally did not even feel - should result in suspension?

If that's the argument then you're a total lost cause wanting to suspend people on hypothetical (not even potential) outcomes.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I've been consistent in my opposition to non-footballing violence for a long time. I'm very happy if you wish to peruse my posting history to see that.

I hate that kids and adults are leaving the game because the risk of having someone be violent toward them is too great.

I think if you use the world 'violence' this loosely it loses all meaning.

And i get the "non-football act" angle (ironically a term popularised by Maynard ending Brayshaw's career and negotiating a non-suspension) but Sicily wasn't just going around instigating this. The Essendon players had planned to do their non-football acts (perhaps violent non-football acts by your definition) prior to the game.

Sicily's response was to do something which did not even hurt anyone. And had no potential to hurt anyone. We know it had no potential to hurt because the 'kick' actually connected and the receiver didn't feel it. Usually we are concerned about violence because of the pain and damage it causes. This non-hurting violence is actually quite fine by me.

Of the things to be removed from the game in that 2 minutes of footage - Sicily's is the one football fans should be least concerned about.
If Sicily's weird leg sweep kickout motion became common place in every scuffle that happened on the footy field, at the end of a season we would still have literally no injuries from this act. Even if it hit epidemic proportions.

 

[WN123]

This is the general consensus. But I think it's a little strange that nobody in the media has commented about the lack of protection Sicily received from the umpires after Guelfi had kicked the goal.

• Jake Stringer ran at him and dropped his shoulder into him
• Jade Gresham then bumped into him from behind
• And then Andy McGrath decided he too would charge in and try to bump him, before Sicily decided f**k this and picked McGrath up and dropped him.

Also worth noting that 9 Essendon players had already surrounded Sicily when the skirmish occurred. They didn't run in to "protect" their teammate. They were already right there in what was clearly a premeditated ploy to target Sicily and get under his skin. It worked, didn't it? They milked another bullshit free. 2 bullshit frees against Sicily & 2 shots at goal in the opening minute.

If the umpires had done their job and penalised the Essendon players for bumping Sicily while the play was dead (and the ball was more than 5 metres away) then Sicily wouldn't have to take the law into his own hands to protect himself.

Interesting that nobody in the media points this out. Typical that everyone would pile on Sicily and call him undisciplined, etc, etc..

Can you imagine the reaction if half the Hawthorn team targeted Dyson Heppell after the ball was kicked through for a goal and 3 Hawks were laying into him with unnecessary bumps ? I reckon the commentary would be slightly different. (Unsociable Hawks, blah blah blah)

What would you think if Luke Parker had half the opposition laying into him when the ball was in the crowd? Would you be saying he needs to pull his head in? What's Sicily supposed to do in that situation? Just stand there, do nothing and let every Essendon flog just bump into him?




G.Lyon: "Concerted effort from all the Essendon boys to get to Sicily there, Browny..."
J.Brown: "Yeah... He may have had his name circled in the pre-game..."

Happens nearly every game when a player does something stupid and gives away a goal.
If the reverse occurred and 9 Hawthorn players were surrounding Heppell the commentary would have been about how soft Essendon were not sticking up for him. Where were the other Hawthorn players while there captain was being targeted?

 

[Hookster]

Players will get suspended for sneezing next!

Don't worry kovid is being mentioned again, about to rise from the ashes.

 

[CrowToon]

I think if you use the world 'violence' this loosely it loses all meaning.

And i get the "non-football act" angle (ironically a term popularised by Maynard ending Brayshaw's career and negotiating a non-suspension) but Sicily wasn't just going around instigating this. The Essendon players had planned to do their non-football acts (perhaps violent non-football acts by your definition) prior to the game.

Sicily's response was to do something which did not even hurt anyone. And had no potential to hurt anyone. We know it had no potential to hurt because the 'kick' actually connected and the receiver didn't feel it. Usually we are concerned about violence because of the pain and damage it causes. This non-hurting violence is actually quite fine by me.

Of the things to be removed from the game in that 2 minutes of footage - Sicily's is the one football fans should be least concerned about.
If Sicily's weird leg sweep kickout motion became common place in every scuffle that happened on the footy field, at the end of a season we would still have literally no injuries from this act. Even if it hit epidemic proportions.

I think perhaps you are focused on the outcome and I'm more focused on the action itself. Kicking is a choice and Sicily made the decision to do it.

I want to be extremely clear, I am not impressed with the conduct of Essendon players here. I don't like it when this stuff happens from anyone at any club, Crows included. I'm also someone who used to engage in this stuff when I ran around the paddocks of country footy and thought it was flying the flag and tough and all that rubbish. I've found further perspective and I've changed my view on it. It's not about eradicating contact in the game, I'm all for bit tackles and hard bumps (when in play and not to the head) but this rubbish off ball is ridiculous and pointless.

People are no longer playing the game because they don't know if the kick or punch coming their way is going to be light like Sicily's or much worse as we have seen. That's intolerable. This isn't people stopping becayse they are scared of being tackled, it's people stopping because we have meatheads (of which I used to be one) who think that it's their right on a footy field to go and ahead and do this non-footy s**t.

I'm satisfied Sicily didnt do damage. But as I said at the top I am action-focused, not outcome focused as I am thinking bigger picture optics. I know the AFL are more outcome based and I understand they need to have a foot in that camp because they are ultimately running a competition and someone missing a game for doing no harm may be seen as unfair or soft by some. I'm not constrained by such considerations so I am full team piss that s**t off.

I am happy to debate and discuss and I know some will think I'm too sensitive on the debate but I've seen the damage at a lower level (and to be fair we have seen it at the top level too). I am also happy to do it without having to be right but I wonder given your reaction is to laugh at posts whether you are actually in this for respectful debate or whether you are taking yhe piss and I've wasted my time even replying to you

 

[LordLucifer]

"regardless of how hard or light it was"

So an action that has literally no ability to hurt someone - that the receiver literally did not even feel - should result in suspension?

If that's the argument then you're a total lost cause wanting to suspend people on hypothetical (not even potential) outcomes.

Oh paaallleasse ................

Your bloke kicked him - end of story !!

 

[HairyO]

Oh paaallleasse ................

Your bloke kicked him - end of story !!

He could have lost his leg !!!!

 

[Back One Out]

Happens nearly every game when a player does something stupid and gives away a goal.
If the reverse occurred and 9 Hawthorn players were surrounding Heppell the commentary would have been about how soft Essendon were not sticking up for him. Where were the other Hawthorn players while there captain was being targeted?

I remember a game between Hawthorn and Bulldogs where Sicily did pretty much the same thing as Jake Stringer did to him last Saturday. The Bulldogs had just kicked a goal and while the ball was in the crowd, Sicily walked into his opponent and dropped his shoulder into him and bumped him. Not to the ground... Just stopped him mid stride.

Umpire: "Free kick, Western Bulldogs... Against you, Sicily!"

Media: "Undisciplined play by Sicily! There was no need to do that. Cost his team a goal!"

Big Footy: "What a flog! He not only has a punchable head, but he's total dickhead as well!"

It doesn't seem to matter what he does... Everyone always piles onto him.



As for the other Hawthorn players, I agree with you, they should've run in and flown the flag for their skipper. They should've laid into those Essendon flogs. Someone should've jumper-punched Stringer and put a headlock on him. Someone else should've elbowed Gresham as hard as they could into the back of his ribs. That's what we needed to see. A show of strength. A huge melee with 10 players from both teams receiving $50,000 in fines.

Then we wouldn't all be focused on Sicily, but talking instead about how Essendon started it when Stringer, Gresham and McGrath targeted Sicily.

It also would've given that CrowToon goose something to really get upset about.



Anyway, I look forward to every other team targeting Sicily when play is dead after the whistle has blown... and I look forward to the umpires not only giving him zero protection, but penalising him every time he farts. Other teams will have seen how Essendon were rewarded for targeting him.

What does the AFL think is going to happen if it continues? That the Hawks aren't going to fight back with some physicality of our own? I'm pretty sure our coaches would've addressed this after the game.

It'd be nice if the AFL & umpires weren't so incompetent by enabling all of this crap.

 

[Simon_Nesbit]

I remember a game between Hawthorn and Bulldogs where Sicily did pretty much the same thing as Jake Stringer did to him last Saturday. The Bulldogs had just kicked a goal and while the ball was in the crowd, Sicily walked into his opponent and dropped his shoulder into him and bumped him. Not to the ground... Just stopped him mid stride.

Umpire: "Free kick, Western Bulldogs... Against you, Sicily!"

Media: "Undisciplined play by Sicily! There was no need to do that. Cost his team a goal!"

Big Footy: "What a flog! He not only has a punchable head, but he's total dickhead as well!"

It doesn't seem to matter what he does... Everyone always piles onto him.



As for the other Hawthorn players, I agree with you, they should've run in and flown the flag for their skipper. They should've laid into those Essendon flogs. Someone should've jumper-punched Stringer and put a headlock on him. Someone else should've elbowed Gresham as hard as they could into the back of his ribs. That's what we needed to see. A show of strength. A huge melee with 10 players from both teams receiving $50,0000 in fines.

Then we wouldn't all be focused on Sicily, but talking instead about how Essendon started it when Stringer, Gresham and McGrath targeted Sicily.

It also would've given that CrowToon goose something to really get upset about.



Anyway, I look forward to every other team targeting Sicily when play is dead after the whistle has blown... and I look forward to the umpires not only giving him zero protection, but penalising him every time he farts. Other teams will have seen how Essendon were rewarded for targeting him.

What does the AFL think is going to happen if it continues? That the Hawks aren't going to fight back with some physicality of our own? I'm pretty sure our coaches would've addressed this after the game.

It'd be nice if the AFL & umpires weren't so incompetent by enabling all of this crap.

Bolded - That's the issue whole with the media though - we wouldn't be talking about that at all.

Instead, the media would be talking about the thuggish Hawks (as the MRP would no doubt pull a few more charges out of the skirmish), recount back to the LITS (where they also blamed Hawthorn exclusively), and it would be back page news and leading topic on talkback for the whole week.

Then next week the Hawks couldn't touch an opponent without giving away the free - meanwhile their opponent can rag-doll them to ground without fear of penalty. (Ie the whole team gets umpired like Sicily regularly does).

It starts with poor officiating, often/always led by the misguided/mistaken (or conspiratorially an axe do grind) media creating a bias for/against certain players and teams.

 

[Back One Out]

always led by the media creating a bias for/against certain players and teams.

Sounds like everyone who works for that 360 garbage on Fox Footy

I stopped watching it years ago, but I saw a 5 minute clip today on Youtube where that buffoon Robbo howled about Sicily escaping a match ban and that tosser Whateley nodding along with pursed lips. There's an enlarged (and misleading) image behind them of Sicily "kicking" McGrath so hard it's caused him to flip over in the air. Of course we know Sicily reached down & grabbed McGrath's leg to flip him over and then lightly tapped him with his foot.

They showed a replay of the incident 6 times in the first 2 minutes of the segment... 10 times in 3 minutes

Heavily edited, of course. Showing none of the lead up with the Essendon players attacking Sicily. Never even spoke about that either. They just edited everything out and showed that dirty thug Sicily kicking poor Andy McGrath for no apparent reason. They also used some cool magnifying glass special effects, zooming right in on the point of contact

Rambling Robinson then says "If we can bring up the footage one more time..."

So they replayed it another 4 times. That's 14 replays in the space of 4.5 minutes.

Robbo goes into his emotional spiel about how the AFL has "let the game down" (by following it's own rules and downgrading the charge to low impact.) He thinks they should ignore the rules and suspend Sicily coz... reasons...

Meanwhile they replayed it another 2 times, making a grand total of 16 replays in 5 and a half minutes.
The same footage, mind you. One angle. Not from 16 different angles.

I think this is a new record for most replays of one incident. Beating the time they showed 15 replays of Ben Stratton pinching Orazio Fantasia.

edit: this was 360 on Tuesday night after Sicily had his charge downgraded by the tribunal. If I'm not mistaken, the 360 flogs had even more to say about it on the Monday. They're unbelievable. They don't even bother to hide their bias for & against the various teams. You can ALWAYS count on them to provide the anti-Hawthorn angle whenever we are part of their story. It's why I stopped watching.

 

[perplexed]

I think perhaps you are focused on the outcome and I'm more focused on the action itself. Kicking is a choice and Sicily made the decision to do it.

I think that you are ignoring both the action and the outcome and playing a semantic game around the word 'kick'.

The action I see is Silicy raising his foot and gently touch McGrath's leg with the top of it. I don't think it constitutes a 'kick' in any meaningful way, but for want of another word, others do. Once it is labelled a kick this is extrapolated into arguments about kicking someone being an act of violence that needs to be stamped out. Therefore Sicily needs to be punished. The argument has become completely divorced from the actual action that was clearly non-violent and harmless.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Oh paaallleasse ................

Your bloke kicked him - end of story !!

"end of story" just sounds like you don't have capacity to put an argument together.

If kicking is such a horrible thing to do, and Sicily connected exactly as intended, why was McGrath so unaffected by it?