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Mvp race

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PHX said:
How much higher do you want him? He might push Nash given Phoenix's winning woes lately but I'd personally have Dirk ahead of them both.
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Why would you have Dirk ahead of him? Nash may have a case to be ahead of Brandon as his team is very average and yet they are sitting 6th in the Western Conference (though the way they are going i can't see Nash finishing that high in the race come the end of the year) and putting up very impressive numbers.

Portland are just 2.5 games behind Dallas yet have been without a number of key players for a major part of the year. Through 42 games this year...

Batum missed 42
Outlaw 31
Oden missed 21
Fernandez missed 19
Pryzbilla missed 12
Blake missed 4
Aldridge missed 3 (when Oden and Joel were both out)

Yet we are still just 2.5 games off the second best record in the West. Since Greg Oden went down, Roy is averaging...

26.5 points
4.7 boards
4.9 assists
51% from the field
2.2 TO's
40 minutes
Portland have gone 12-9 over that period.

If you look at his stats since Joel has been injured it would read slightly better. Over the past 12 games he's averaged 27/4/5, shooting almost 60% and had less than 2 TO's. Portland are 5-4 during that time (he's missed a couple of games).

Not sure many people honestly believed we would still be going at 57% when Oden and Joel went down, not to mention key role players like Rudy/Outlaw/Blake missing games.

I don't think Brandon gets enough credit for what he has done this year.
 
Cruiser23 said:
Why would you have Dirk ahead of him?
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All those stats are nice but now have a look at Dirk's record and it's more than comparable to Roy. I did not realise Roy had been so efficient lately but I was discontented with his sluggish start to the year, which might be having an influence on my decision. He's certainly showing rhythm since a sluggish first month, and it's probably no coincidence it's coupled with Andre Miller actually looking like he finally understands the offense, but I still think Dirk has been more valuable to Dallas as a player who can play inside and out.

I'm not going to do a big stat analysis because I think they are so close after LeBron and Kobe it really is a log jam that stats won't split clearly without personal interpretation but personally I would have that log jam as . . .

3. KD35
4. Dirk
5. Roy
6. Melo
7. Nash
8. Timmy
9. Wade
 
I wouldn't have Kobe in the top 5 this year, and agree that Roy needs to be very, very close to the top. I'd probably go LBJ then Roy/Dirk in any order.

Moreover, I would contend that if the Lakers had Brandon Roy instead of Kobe Bryant, they would be a serious chance to break the Bulls' single-season wins record.
 
PHX said:
All those stats are nice but now have a look at Dirk's record and it's more than comparable to Roy. I did not realise Roy had been so efficient lately but I was discontented with his sluggish start to the year, which might be having an influence on my decision. He's certainly showing rhythm since a sluggish first month, and it's probably no coincidence it's coupled with Andre Miller actually looking like he finally understands the offense, but I still think Dirk has been more valuable to Dallas as a player who can play inside and out.

I'm not going to do a big stat analysis because I think they are so close after LeBron and Kobe it really is a log jam that stats won't split clearly without personal interpretation but personally I would have that log jam as . . .

3. KD35
4. Dirk
5. Roy
6. Melo
7. Nash
8. Timmy
9. Wade
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That's fair enough, it's very close either way...
 
mdc said:
I wouldn't have Kobe in the top 5 this year, and agree that Roy needs to be very, very close to the top. I'd probably go LBJ then Roy/Dirk in any order.

Moreover, I would contend that if the Lakers had Brandon Roy instead of Kobe Bryant, they would be a serious chance to break the Bulls' single-season wins record.
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Im all for a bit of Kobe hating and Roy loving but still pick Kobe any day of the week.
 
Westy Bogan said:
Im all for a bit of Kobe hating and Roy loving but still pick Kobe any day of the week.
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I should have probably explained that a bit.

Kobe's best is better than Roy's best, and if I have a mediocre (or even decent) team I'd pick Kobe every time. For example, Roy would never have taken 3 games off the Phoenix Suns with Smush and Kwame.

But the current Lakers team is loaded. And although Roy's best isn't anywhere near as good as Kobe's, his worst isn't nearly as bad. The guy is a signiificantly better passer, and most importantly doesn't have those 10-for-30 nights that Kobe is prone to (which essentially cost the Lakers games).

Roy's 2 worst shooting games of the season are a 5-for-18 and an 8-for-24. Poor nights, obviously, but still leaving enough shots for quality team-mates to pick up the slack (in fact the Blazers went 1-1 in those 2).

Kobe, meanwhile, has a 7-for-24 (loss), an 11-for-33 (loss), a 10-for-30 (loss) a 14-for-37 (loss). And that's half way through the season.

If you replace Kobe with Roy, those nights disappear, as Roy will just start feeding team-mates if his shot isn't falling. Which, when your team-mates are very talented, is sort of useful.
 

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mdc said:
I should have probably explained that a bit.

Kobe's best is better than Roy's best, and if I have a mediocre (or even decent) team I'd pick Kobe every time. For example, Roy would never have taken 3 games off the Phoenix Suns with Smush and Kwame.

But the current Lakers team is loaded. And although Roy's best isn't anywhere near as good as Kobe's, his worst isn't nearly as bad. The guy is a signiificantly better passer, and most importantly doesn't have those 10-for-30 nights that Kobe is prone to (which essentially cost the Lakers games).

Roy's 2 worst shooting games of the season are a 5-for-18 and an 8-for-24. Poor nights, obviously, but still leaving enough shots for quality team-mates to pick up the slack (in fact the Blazers went 1-1 in those 2).

Kobe, meanwhile, has a 7-for-24 (loss), an 11-for-33 (loss), a 10-for-30 (loss) a 14-for-37 (loss). And that's half way through the season.

If you replace Kobe with Roy, those nights disappear, as Roy will just start feeding team-mates if his shot isn't falling. Which, when your team-mates are very talented, is sort of useful.
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I think for all those poor shooting performances Kobe had a broken finger and the Lakers were also missing key personnel during a couple of those games as well.

The Lakers don't care about the Bulls record, it would place too much pressure on the team, and may adversely effect their main goal which is to go back-to-back. The Lakers will cruise through the regular season, doing enough to ensure they finish with the best record in the league and that the team is fit and healthy come the playoffs and working as a team. If Kobe has a few of those poor shooting games, it's fine by me, because at the end of the season I know he is one who will step when counted and ensure the Lakers take home Larry.

As for MVP, Kobe's performances with a broken finger warrants MVP consideration, but it's LeBron's again this year, and unless he moves to Lakerland, personal awards are all he is going to win.:D
 
Westy Bogan said:
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/01/15/racetomvp.week11/index.html

LBJ numbers are astounding. Not far off averaging a triple double with 50% shooting from the floor:eek:

What about Nash? Numbers are incredible.
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Not that it means anything but the NBA.com MVP ranking is **** terrible. Ever since Mo Brooks left they have only been riding on the players that are hot.

Speaking of Mo Brooks, i find his ESPN awards column more legit.
http://espn.go.com/nba/notebook/_/page/Awards-100119/awards-watch
 
DEVO said:
I think for all those poor shooting performances Kobe had a broken finger and the Lakers were also missing key personnel during a couple of those games as well.

The Lakers don't care about the Bulls record, it would place too much pressure on the team, and may adversely effect their main goal which is to go back-to-back. The Lakers will cruise through the regular season, doing enough to ensure they finish with the best record in the league and that the team is fit and healthy come the playoffs and working as a team. If Kobe has a few of those poor shooting games, it's fine by me, because at the end of the season I know he is one who will step when counted and ensure the Lakers take home Larry.

As for MVP, Kobe's performances with a broken finger warrants MVP consideration, but it's LeBron's again this year, and unless he moves to Lakerland, personal awards are all he is going to win.:D
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Lakers have done so well to still have best record considering injuries they have. If they are healthy in the playoffs then the title is theirs to lose.

Kobe's value is taking over games and winning them in the 4th. I have not seen Roy do that consistently yet.

As for Lebron, Jordan could only win individual honours until Pippen arrived. he still needs his Pippen and Shaq and Mo are not it. Put LBJ into Lakers team and goodbye Chicago regular season record.;)
 
Westy Bogan said:
Kobe's value is taking over games and winning them in the 4th. I have not seen Roy do that consistently yet.
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I have. When Roy takes a game winning shot, I'd say it's more likely to fall than Kobe.

And he would easily be top 10 in 4th quarter scoring in the league.


Where's mdc? He'll have the stats somewhere for it.
 
PHX said:
I have. When Roy takes a game winning shot, I'd say it's more likely to fall than Kobe.

And he would easily be top 10 in 4th quarter scoring in the league.


Where's mdc? He'll have the stats somewhere for it.
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This is interesting and stats I found only go to middle of last year.

For game winning shots Kobe was 14 out of 56 for only 25% chance of hitting game winner.

Roy was 7 from 19 which is a much more respectable percentage.

For 4th quarter points Kobe averaging 9.6 pts and a healthy .471. Roys totals didnt make the table so have to assume he is under 6 pts average.

Game winners = Roy better.
4th quarter points = Kobe better.

So basically you want Kobe to play the 4th quarter to get the points and then bring in Roy to hit the game winner.:D
 

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