My thoughts

[ClintEastwood]

Yet we can look at other clubs in grand finals, suggest that some of those players are lucky to be there, and thats ok.

I must've missed the part where for Port fans every selection is automatically golden, every game plan is perfect and every opposition win is a fluke.

I wasn't talking about you, Porthos. I would pretty much expect complaints from you no matter what.

Just to get this straight...what you are saying is that it's ok to criticize the coach when he makes a decision/non-decision that you don't agree with, but it's not ok for someone to get p*ssed off about that, right?

There were pages and pages written earlier in the year, about what a terrible coach Choco was. About how nothing he does is right, he has no idea, he should be sacked, ad infinitum. If I were to go back and do a "Worst-of" post, it would be rather long, and very unpleasant.

Now that Choco has actually gotten us to improve over last year, into the long-sought GF, and been voted coach of the year by his peers, there has been virtually no apology, retraction, or anything of the kind, by the many people that were sinking the boot in heavily. There have been a few "well done" comments here and there, but such scant praise pales into insignificance compared with the flood which drenched this place for months.

That sh*ts me.

 

[Sandola]

Seems to me it's a tough decision whichever way it falls.

Keep in Schofield because the role he plays is essential, and no one else available can play it? If Schoey plays like he did last week, and Port fail, Choco is howled down by the wrathful voices of the footy world including the Power people of BigFooty.

Recognize Schofield's woeful form by replacing him with Cochrane or anyone else, only to find that Cochrane or whoever isn't up to it, and Port fail? Choco not only is a terrible coach, but he also is a rat who has shafted one of the Power's loyal sons.

Williams's only hope is a Port victory, with or without Schoey!

I don't care which decision he makes. As long as we win.

 

[jasnik]

For all of Choco's big talking after the prelim, I really can't see there being more than one change this week: White for Thurstans. Even that one change is unlikely after White failed to make the most of his selection run on Sunday. His tough talk was more designed to motivate the poor performers and get them to pull all their fingers out. And yes, thank god the GF is a day game.

The GF (like 90% of all games) will be won or lost in the midfield, and what we are lacking is another in-and-under player to get the ball out from the tight contests. They would then feed the ball 2 metres away to P Burgoyne, who will feed the ball out to Schoey 10 metres in the clear to do something with. Schoey isn't about to become a contested possession player, and there isn't anyone else ready to come back into the team that would fit the bill (come back Francou, bugger the knee we need you now!!). Ebert - maybe, but Choco has refused to play him in the midfield to date and won't be starting in the GF. I've got all my fingers and toes crossed that all players actually play to their full potential this weekend. We all know how great each player can be. No excuses, no regrets, 100% positive.

When it's all said and done though, I reckon Choco should pull the selection shock of the year and go:

Out: Thurstans, Schofield, Hardwick
In: White, Francou, Hassan

Hey, could we really do any worse? And think of the headlines!!!

PS I think Choco's a great coach. The results speak for themselves.

 

[Portmanteau]

Now that Choco has actually gotten us to improve over last year, into the long-sought GF, and been voted coach of the year by his peers, there has been virtually no apology, retraction, or anything of the kind, by the many people that were sinking the boot in heavily. There have been a few "well done" comments here and there, but such scant praise pales into insignificance compared with the flood which drenched this place for months.

Why should there be any retraction when he's finally met expectations? Doing your best is an expectation at PAFC. The fact of the matter is, if we win lose on Saturday we only match the record on the most underachieving team of their time Essendon 99-01. I can only assume we take over the mantle if Brisbane overcome us.

Anyone with that track record is far from immune to criticism...

 

[Portia]

I wasn't talking about you, Porthos. I would pretty much expect complaints from you no matter what.

Just to get this straight...what you are saying is that it's ok to criticize the coach when he makes a decision/non-decision that you don't agree with, but it's not ok for someone to get p*ssed off about that, right?

Did I say that? You can get ********ed off all you like, but if I reckon you're being hypocritical I'll say so. There's no logical reason why Port would be the only side to have perfect selections going into the GF.

There were pages and pages written earlier in the year, about what a terrible coach Choco was. About how nothing he does is right, he has no idea, he should be sacked, ad infinitum. If I were to go back and do a "Worst-of" post, it would be rather long, and very unpleasant.

Now that Choco has actually gotten us to improve over last year, into the long-sought GF, and been voted coach of the year by his peers, there has been virtually no apology, retraction, or anything of the kind, by the many people that were sinking the boot in heavily. There have been a few "well done" comments here and there, but such scant praise pales into insignificance compared with the flood which drenched this place for months.

A bit early for miles of prose on Choco's magnificence, isn't it? We just scraped through a cut-throat preliminary carrying a bunch of players, one of whom didn't even seem to know what this year's gameplan is. Yes, we did it, and if we're judging him on results Choco's done well so far, but lets face it, the real job is this Saturday.

What I'm finding funny is that you're taking offence to people remaining concerned about the same things that they were concerned about midseason.

We still think integration of rookies into the senior side is a problem, we still think he gives out gold passes and that enough players haven't been given a rocket, we still think Tredrea needs more decent support up forward....which of these have been proven wrong between now and then?

All of us have said that we'll be happy to be proven wrong. This has not yet actually happened.

 

[ClintEastwood]

Why should there be any retraction when he's finally met expectations?

Either I am being obtuse, which is quite possible, or you are.

There should be retractions of a sort from people who were calling for his head, because he has gotten us into an AFL Grand Final.

If we had bombed out of the finals again, the ruthless slamming of Choco which occured would have been shown to have been at least partly justified. But no, they have been shown to be a terrible and spiteful overreaction.

Some supporters were saying he is an shocking coach. Pretty strong thing to say about the coach of the club you love. To say such a thing, you would want to be 99% sure you were right.

The other 15 coaches in the AFL have voted him to be the best one going around.

You say doing your best is an expectation at PAFC. Of bloody course it is. But if you don't believe Choco has done his best in every single year he has been there, you have rocks in your head. He is acknowledged by everyone that spends time around him, as being absolutely tireless in the pursuit of excellence.

We expect premierships at PAFC. As the newest team of the AFL, that's a pretty big expectation. But he has gotten us into a position where we can fulfil those expectations.

He has done the near-impossible with the injured squad he's had at his disposal. Time for a hell of a lot more credit, win or lose the GF.

 

[ClintEastwood]

What I'm finding funny is that you're taking offence to people remaining concerned about the same things that they were concerned about midseason.

Why is it funny? I thought the criticism was over the top midseason, and said so, and I am saying so now. The only difference is that now we are into a GF, and Choco has been voted the best coach going around.

All of us have said that we'll be happy to be proven wrong. This has not yet actually happened.

People who predicted we would not progress any further under Choco have been proven wrong, as we have indeed progressed.

I am not saying there should not be criticism of coach, club, players, etc. Appropriate criticism is a healthy thing to have, as long as it remains balanced with appropriate praise. But criticism has become a bad habit this year.

Good thing for everyone that has never coached a team into a GF to remember: Choco knows better than you.

 

[Portia]

This is different to: Choco is always right, and you are always wrong.

 

[ClintEastwood]

This is different to: Choco is always right, and you are always wrong

Yes, what I said is different to what I did not say.

 

[Portmanteau]

You say doing your best is an expectation at PAFC. Of bloody course it is. But if you don't believe Choco has done his best in every single year he has been there, you have rocks in your head. He is acknowledged by everyone that spends time around him, as being absolutely tireless in the pursuit of excellence.

If I believe that getting to one grand final after winning three minor premierships with a list equal to that of Brisbane is not correlated with Choco doing his best, then I guess I have rocks in my head. Thanks for that, by the way.

 

[Portia]

Bresh: Schofield does not have a track record where we can carry him in good faith into a Grand Final, where you cannot have one passenger. It's not as if there's a huge margin for error in this game. Brisbane eat inefficient teams alive. We're carrying a player who has not performed in this, or any other finals series... but it's OK because Choco says so?

Pred: Yes it is.

Pred, what you did not say appears to be what you very much imply.

 

[Andre]

Some supporters were saying he is an shocking coach. Pretty strong thing to say about the coach of the club you love. To say such a thing, you would want to be 99% sure you were right.

Personally I said (if I'm remembering correctly!) is that he's a good coach, but with noticable flaws. Gold passes and the lack (it appears) of any respect for the position of full forward topping them. I was wanting his reappointment kept till after the finals. So far in the finals we've beaten well a side that was very finals inexperienced, then at home, after a week off, just limped into the Grand Final. I'm very happy and it's a GOOD job by Choco, but I'm still not 100% convinced he can take us the final step. Selections and HOW we play Saturday will tell the picture - not necessarily wnning, but the manner we go for it - if we attack and we have a side out there that's attacking then I'll be happy that Choco has addressed his very real flaws from the previous 2 or 3 years.

 

[Eddie Woloschek]

Choco's done well so far, but lets face it, the real job is this Saturday.

Gee, far be it from me to be less than glowing about our grandstand schemer, but the ONLY job is Saturday. Win it and the job is done. Lose it and we are another year from redemption.

 

[Macca19]

I wasn't talking about you, Porthos. I would pretty much expect complaints from you no matter what.

Just to get this straight...what you are saying is that it's ok to criticize the coach when he makes a decision/non-decision that you don't agree with, but it's not ok for someone to get p*ssed off about that, right?

There were pages and pages written earlier in the year, about what a terrible coach Choco was. About how nothing he does is right, he has no idea, he should be sacked, ad infinitum. If I were to go back and do a "Worst-of" post, it would be rather long, and very unpleasant.

Now that Choco has actually gotten us to improve over last year, into the long-sought GF, and been voted coach of the year by his peers, there has been virtually no apology, retraction, or anything of the kind, by the many people that were sinking the boot in heavily. There have been a few "well done" comments here and there, but such scant praise pales into insignificance compared with the flood which drenched this place for months.

That sh*ts me.

I was one that gave him heaps of crap but i gave plenty of examples and rasons behind what i beleived Chocos faults were. I beelive a lot of the reasons behind why people didnt like Choco were warranted. I also thoguht there were more thought out posts instead of just plain 'he is crap, he is hopeless' kind of posts...but i could be wrong.

I hear where you are coming from. BUT...this grand final weve expected for the last 3 years now. Choco has coachedpretty well this year but still has a way to go and has still done some things that have understandably raised the ire of the supporters.

One of Chocos faults has been - and its been said for a few years now - is the whole Gold Pass theory.

In my opinion Choco is a long long way away from the whole 'if Mark says its ok then its ok' type like you mention...or Messiah status you could put it. When he wins a few premierships then he may get to that level. I for one dont like that way of thinking towards any coach. If there is a perceived fault or a way I think our club could improve then ill raise that question. But thats just me and im very outspoken.

 

[ClintEastwood]

If I believe that getting to one grand final after winning three minor premierships with a list equal to that of Brisbane is not correlated with Choco doing his best, then I guess I have rocks in my head. Thanks for that, by the way.

He has not achieved to the levels we would be happiest with (i.e. 2 flags so far), but (a) noone is perfect, and (b) He is still improving all the time. But I would strongly dispute that has not done his best, even if that best wasn't good enough. It's a simple case of someone giving their all, but not measuring up once or twice, yet continuing to perservere. Such a person will eventually succeed. Perseverance furthers. The line about rocks was tagged on the back of a hypothetical Bresh, no offence to you personally was intended.

 

[ClintEastwood]

Pred, what you did not say appears to be what you very much imply.

Here's some more of what I do say...

I say that whenever someone on a messageboard disagrees with a decision of Choco's, there is a hell of a good chance that Choco has it right and the poster wrong. You just don't get your team into an AFL Grand Final by making too many bad decisions.

It's not that he is certain to be right, but my money would be on the AFL coach of the year's judgement over the poster's at least 90% of the time, higher depending on the poster.

 

[Portia]

Gotta wonder why you bother coming here then, frankly.

 

[Santos L Helper]

I WILL NOT apologise for sticking to my beliefs. With a different coach, I still beleive we'd be playing in OUR third Grand Final in a row.

 

[PAfolwr]

I see absolutely nothing wrong with people posting opinions on who they think should be included or not. We all have one opinion or another on that subject, but I think this thread has now gone sideways now, and beyond that.

When Choco got his Contract extension, I posted on here that even though I though we should have waited until after the finals, I would not make any more comments on threads of this nature until after the finals were over.

Our finals aren't over yet.

Time for people to stop posting on this thread IMO.
The timing is all wrong. It is not going anywhere, and not doing anyone any good.

 

[Sandola]

It's a simple case of someone giving their all, but not measuring up once or twice, yet continuing to perservere. Such a person will eventually succeed. Perseverance furthers.

This is a lovely thought, but simply and patently untrue. Plenty of good people spend their whole lives persevering, doing their best, and not succeeding by their own or anyone else's lights. It's just a capitalist canard designed to keep the masses in their place (and voting Liberal).

 

[ClintEastwood]

This is a lovely thought, but simply and patently untrue. Plenty of good people spend their whole lives persevering, doing their best, and not succeeding by their own or anyone else's lights. It's just a capitalist canard designed to keep the masses in their place (and voting Liberal).

Perseverence furthers is one of the most common phrases in the I Ching - the Chinese book of changes, a book far older than the bible, containing great wisdom. Do I sound like a religious zealot? Nothing could be further from the truth

"Such a person will eventually succeed" was my addition, and I would concede that's not always true.

 

[Sandola]

Yeh, I actually got that. Used to throw the I Ching back when I was a hippie in San Francisco.
It still isn't true.

 

[ClintEastwood]

Yeh, I actually got that. Used to throw the I Ching back when I was a hippie in San Francisco.
It still isn't true.

Fair enough, that's your opinion. I believe it to be true.

 

[Portia]

While we're referring to sacred texts, here's the one that Choco will hopefully consider when making his decisions.

We the players and management of the Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club accept the heritage which past players and administrators have passed down to us. In doing so we do not intend to rest in idleness but shall strive with all our power to further this club's unexcelled achievements.

To do this we believe there is great merit and noble achievements in winning the premiership. To be successful each of us must be active, aggressive and devoted to this cause. We agree that success is well within our reach and have confidence that each member of both the team and management will suffer personal sacrifices for the common end. Also we know that should we, after striving to our utmost and giving our everything, still not be successful, our efforts will become a further part of this club's enviable tradition.

Finally we concede there can be honour in defeat, but to each of us honourable defeat of our club and guernsey can come only after human endeavour on the playing field is completely exhausted.

 

[ClintEastwood]

Thought I'd seen that somewhere before. Oh yeah, my signature!