Nathan Jones

[Hannabal]

The one problem Jonesy has had, and it is self confessed, was that he was trying to be Gary Ablett, or Jimmy Bartel or Chris Judd.

Decision making, creativity and not getting enough of it.

He's not a bad player, but I certainly expect him to be fringe/depth if we're to seriously challenge in 3-4 years time. I want and expect better midfielders representing my footy club.

 

[eskimo]

The decision making and creativity problems stem from him trying to be Gary Ablett et al.

As for not getting enough of it - that was never a problem until this year when he was used in tagging roles.

It's a good thing Hawthorn wrote off Luke Hodge at 22 when he wasn't performing very well instead of putting time into him and allowing him to develop, otherwise they would have just clogged their list a little longer. There are certainly plenty of other examples of late bloomers at AFL level. I still believe Jonesy has a lot to offer the MFC for years to come. I certainly think he can offer more to a Premiership contender than say Moloney. Don't get me wrong, I love the way Moloney goes about it, but he is a one trick Pony. Jonesy has the hardness that Molly has, and is certainly a better user of the footy when he wants to be.

 

[Hannabal]

The decision making and creativity problems stem from him trying to be Gary Ablett et al.

As for not getting enough of it - that was never a problem until this year when he was used in tagging roles.

It's a good thing Hawthorn wrote off Luke Hodge at 22 when he wasn't performing very well instead of putting time into him and allowing him to develop, otherwise they would have just clogged their list a little longer. There are certainly plenty of other examples of late bloomers at AFL level. I still believe Jonesy has a lot to offer the MFC for years to come. I certainly think he can offer more to a Premiership contender than say Moloney. Don't get me wrong, I love the way Moloney goes about it, but he is a one trick Pony. Jonesy has the hardness that Molly has, and is certainly a better user of the footy when he wants to be.

Jones has never got much of it. In 92 games of footy he's had two 30 possession games. In his best year (4th) he averaged 22 disposals. His best year was overall inferior to Scully's first. And yes I know he'll never be as good as Scully, but it's a pointed reminder of how far behind Jones is when compared to those touted to be elite. He is also no Luke Hodge. And it's folly to say that Hodge would have been written off after 3 years as a 20 year old. Hodge starred in his 4th year while Jones stagnates in his 5th.

And fwiw, I don't rate Moloney either. I want a premiership quality midfield and Jones and Moloney fall short. Set your sights higher son.

 

[rusman]

So Nathan Jones .........

 

[irukandji]

The decision making and creativity problems stem from him trying to be Gary Ablett et al.

If true then he's clearly he rates himself very highly - much more highly than others do - I think that may be the root of the problem.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Jones has never got much of it. In 92 games of footy he's had two 30 possession games. In his best year (4th) he averaged 22 disposals. His best year was overall inferior to Scully's first. And yes I know he'll never be as good as Scully, but it's a pointed reminder of how far behind Jones is when compared to those touted to be elite. He is also no Luke Hodge. And it's folly to say that Hodge would have been written off after 3 years as a 20 year old. Hodge starred in his 4th year while Jones stagnates in his 5th.

And fwiw, I don't rate Moloney either. I want a premiership quality midfield and Jones and Moloney fall short. Set your sights higher son.

isn't this jones 4th year?? and hodge was being criticized as a poor number 1 pick as a 21 year old when ball was a B&F winner + AA squad member and Judd was an AA and brownlow medalist in 2004

hodge only averaged 15 disposals... the next year he was awesome and proved everyone wrong however

 

[Slattery_20]

And fwiw, I don't rate Moloney either. I want a premiership quality midfield and Jones and Moloney fall short. Set your sights higher son.

So a "premiership midfield" is 6 guys who are all AA, gun, elite-everything, brownlow quality??
Never happened yet. My tip, won't ever happen. And if your club keeps delisting everyone who shows the slightest sign of not being all that, you'll end up going through a succession of 18yos with no progress.

You need grunt guys to get the footy. You need defensive guys to stop them getting the footy. And so on. Football is not played on paper.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

So a "premiership midfield" is 6 guys who are all AA, gun, elite-everything, brownlow quality??
Never happened yet. My tip, won't ever happen. And if your club keeps delisting everyone who shows the slightest sign of not being all that, you'll end up going through a succession of 18yos with no progress.

You need grunt guys to get the footy. You need defensive guys to stop them getting the footy. And so on. Football is not played on paper.

agree completely, Moloney especially we can't afford to lose. Jones has shown talent, and i this year was playing a foreign role as a tagger,

a midfield of Moloney, Scully, Trengove, Sylvia, McKensie and Gys/Blease (a maybe) /Jones (two on the bench) or even grimes looks very nice IMO

 

[mfc150]

The game will not pass Jones by. He would not be worried about that kind of thing. Jonesy is not the kind of guy who thinks like that. If he thought he was getting pushed out of the side, he would work work harder to stay in it, that's just the kind of person he is.


The stumbling block at the moment is that he was unhappy playing as a tagger, and doesn't want to do it again, which is undestandable as he isn't that kind of player. He is a see the ball get the ball player. The one problem Jonesy has had, and it is self confessed, was that he was trying to be Gary Ablett, or Jimmy Bartel or Chris Judd. He started this year playing like Nathan Jones and was doing alright at it. Bailey wanted to teach him how hard Gary Ablett et al work to be that good. It was a learning year for Jones, as the few times he had copped a tag in the previous 12 months or so he had struggled with it very badly. The reason he finished so low in the B+F was because he wasn't playing the role he knows how, and I'll be honest, he sucked ass as a tagger.

Word is he is closer to signing with the Dee's. Just trying to get a 3 year deal instead of 2. I hope he stays. My 5 year old nephew would be shattered if he left, and he might even change who he barracks for, he absolutely loves Jonesy!

Very good post.

 

[BigSexc]

underrated post.

efa.

 

[Hannabal]

So a "premiership midfield" is 6 guys who are all AA, gun, elite-everything, brownlow quality??
Never happened yet. My tip, won't ever happen. And if your club keeps delisting everyone who shows the slightest sign of not being all that, you'll end up going through a succession of 18yos with no progress.

No and I've never said that.

Jones and Moloney are very one dimensional, non creative players. They're not particularly great at the "grunt" work, because they're not as clean as the better inside mids and they don't get enough of the ball; although Moloney, to be fair, had a good year and has improved this aspect of his game. I see both players replaced by better models if we're to achieve ultimate success.

They're both B-/C+ graders.

I've already seen enough of Gysberts inside work at VFL and AFL level to be satisfied that he'll be twice the player of the above two. In time Gysberts and McKenzie will usurp Jones and Moloney, while Scully and Trengove will also win plenty of contested footy. Grimes will have more rotations through the midfield in the not too distant future.

Whether they like it or not, Jones and Moloney are on borrowed time - thankfully.

By the way, thanks for the lecture, Kid. You and others can stick to overrating your own players and I'll have a realistic assessment of mine. At least you've got a cheerleader in The Muppet Master.

Btw, who have we delisted that we shouldn't have ? The club hasn't made one wrong call in the last 3 years.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

No and I've never said that.

Jones and Moloney are very one dimensional, non creative players. They're not particularly great at the "grunt" work, because they're not as clean as the better inside mids and they don't get enough of the ball; although Moloney, to be fair, had a good year and has improved this aspect of his game. I see both players replaced by better models if we're to achieve ultimate success.

They're both B-/C+ graders.

I've already seen enough of Gysberts inside work at VFL and AFL level to be satisfied that he'll be twice the player of the above two. In time Gysberts and McKenzie will usurp Jones and Moloney, while Scully and Trengove will also win plenty of contested footy. Grimes will have more rotations through the midfield in the not too distant future.

Whether they like it or not, Jones and Moloney are on borrowed time - thankfully.

By the way, thanks for the lecture, Kid. You and others can stick to overrating your own players and I'll have a realistic assessment of mine. At least you've got a cheerleader in The Muppet Master.

Btw, who have we delisted that we shouldn't have ? The club hasn't made one wrong call in the last 3 years.

this guy is a killer, unfortunately for him he has no idea. Moloney had an excellent year, and was great in and around the clinches... Jones was being used as a tagger and yes had a worse year than we would have expected.

Jones is a B- grade player at the moment

Moloney i would rate as a B+ grader

Sure gysberts looks fantastic, but there are no guarantees... ill leave it to bailey to decide which players have a future at our club, not some hack on bigfooty

 

[Slattery_20]

Moloney's been a very good player the last two years after a . IMHO easily good enough to get a game anywhere. Jones isn't *as* good, but he's still IMHO a better footballer than McKenzie, and he's got a lot more runs on the board than both he and Gysberts.
I think Hannabal is being so dogmatic about not over-rating existing players he's gone too far the other way, verging on over-rating juniors.

 

[BigSexc]

No and I've never said that.

Jones and Moloney are very one dimensional, non creative players. They're not particularly great at the "grunt" work, because they're not as clean as the better inside mids and they don't get enough of the ball; although Moloney, to be fair, had a good year and has improved this aspect of his game. I see both players replaced by better models if we're to achieve ultimate success.

They're both B-/C+ graders.

I've already seen enough of Gysberts inside work at VFL and AFL level to be satisfied that he'll be twice the player of the above two. In time Gysberts and McKenzie will usurp Jones and Moloney, while Scully and Trengove will also win plenty of contested footy. Grimes will have more rotations through the midfield in the not too distant future.

Whether they like it or not, Jones and Moloney are on borrowed time - thankfully.

By the way, thanks for the lecture, Kid. You and others can stick to overrating your own players and I'll have a realistic assessment of mine. At least you've got a cheerleader in The Muppet Master.

Btw, who have we delisted that we shouldn't have ? The club hasn't made one wrong call in the last 3 years.

100% agree with this guy..

if this were any other year with an un-GC-ed draft jones would go for an early second rounder -makes it hard this year but i hope we get a deal done for him

 

[Juddys_navy_blues]

If he walks to the PSD essendon get him for nothing... stop overrating him guys, our 2nd rounder at absoloute most.

So you have 1st pick in th seson draft do you? NO you dont, i bet Richmond or another club would snap him up before Essendon had a chance..

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

100% agree with this guy..

if this were any other year with an un-GC-ed draft jones would go for an early second rounder -makes it hard this year but i hope we get a deal done for him

he was a 1st round draft pick, at 22 and 100 games experience i don't want to let him go unless we get a great offer

 

[melbournemartin]

People forget that Moloney is our #1 clearance player and is incredibly important to our midfield. Jones, less so, but I wouldn't give him up for little.

 

[Hannabal]

Moloney's been a very good player the last two years after a . IMHO easily good enough to get a game anywhere. Jones isn't *as* good, but he's still IMHO a better footballer than McKenzie, and he's got a lot more runs on the board than both he and Gysberts.
I think Hannabal is being so dogmatic about not over-rating existing players he's gone too far the other way, verging on over-rating juniors.

Moloney has been pretty good, but he's one dimensional, one paced, and not overly creative with his hands. He's a decent footballer, but Gysberts has a better footy brain and is a better size. McKenzie will usurp Jones in the not too distant future. It's pretty obvious that I'm not talking about the here and now, but as I see the side in 2-3 years.

It's vexed for me as I was a strong advocate of drafting Jones prior to his draft year. Craig Cameron and I exchanged personal messages regarding him. I was reading one of those last night where Cameron refers to him as "your boy Jones" post drafting him. So it's fair to say I've kept a close watch on him over the years. I fully understand his strengths and weaknesses, but I don't let any emotion get in my way when analysing a footballer and his worth to the MFC.

I'm only interested in winning a flag. And I judge every player against this yardstick. Some players are important for the journey and others are important for the role they'll play if the zenith is reached. Moloney and Jones form the journeymen. You're welcome to disagree.

 

[irukandji]

IMO Moloney and Jones are premiership quality players but they're not going to win it for us and as similar types it may not be possible to have both in a flag 22. If they come at the right price I'm very happy to have both of them on the list but I wouldn't pay "overs" for either of them and that includes a 3 year contract.

 

[Demon 16]

People forget that Moloney is our #1 clearance player and is incredibly important to our midfield. Jones, less so, but I wouldn't give him up for little.

Not to mention Moloneys psychological influence on the team - he's dedicated as anyone and is pretty ruthless.

Jeez I try not to be one of those biased bf posters but I just can't write off Moloney or Jones as premiership footballers.

I'd want something very good to trade one of these guys

 

[Slattery_20]

IMO Moloney and Jones are premiership quality players but they're not going to win it for us and as similar types it may not be possible to have both in a flag 22. If they come at the right price I'm very happy to have both of them on the list but I wouldn't pay "overs" for either of them and that includes a 3 year contract.

Yep, tend to agree it'd be one or the other.

 

[rusman]

Questions for Melbourne supporters or unbiased knowledgeable 3rd parties:

What draft pick he is work (irelevant of club trading to i.e 17-reason why)

Or

What draft pick do you think you would get if he decided to go to Essendon?

I think thats the real questions most people are asking summarized.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Questions for Melbourne supporters or unbiased knowledgeable 3rd parties:

What draft pick he is work (irelevant of club trading to i.e 17-reason why)

Or

What draft pick do you think you would get if he decided to go to Essendon?

I think thats the real questions most people are asking summarized.

personally id see him as late first round worth this year... around that 20 mark... i think if he decided to move to essendon, you would use you 2nd pick, which would be 30 i think? ...

an upgrade melbourne pick might be a possiblity

ie. Jones and 12 for 8 and 30... but i'm not sure how focused essendon are on bringing in youth to the club, but i think that would be a fair deal...

 

[HurleyLegend]

Worth about pick 16-20 imo, considering he's young, improving, 92 games experience and pick 12 only 4 years ago.

 

[Demonheart]

Questions for Melbourne supporters or unbiased knowledgeable 3rd parties:

What draft pick he is work (irelevant of club trading to i.e 17-reason why)

Or

What draft pick do you think you would get if he decided to go to Essendon?

I think thats the real questions most people are asking summarized.

He's not worth your first pick but worth more than you second, it will make for an interesting trade if it goes ahead.

I hope he stays.