National Cabinet

[Frank Bunn]

Scott Morrison and the State Premiers have established a new way to run the country in response to the Covid-19 crisis. National Cabinet has been described as COAG by another name but alternatively called "executive federalism". A new way to run the country deserves some discussion.

How does National Cabinet sit within the constitution?

What is the relationship between decisions made by the National Cabinet and legislation as passed by Federal Parliament?

Is it really a government cabinet? The conventions and rules of cabinet such as cabinet solidarity and the secrecy provisions do not apply.

Is it a good way to run the country? The States, with their disparate political agendas, agree to the non-binding National Cabinet agreements but then it seems to all fall apart.

 

[Power Raid]

Scott Morrison and the State Premiers have established a new way to run the country in response to the Covid-19 crisis. National Cabinet has been described as COAG by another name but alternatively called "executive federalism". A new way to run the country deserves some discussion.

How does National Cabinet sit within the constitution?

What is the relationship between decisions made by the National Cabinet and legislation as passed by Federal Parliament?

Is it really a government cabinet? The conventions and rules of cabinet such as cabinet solidarity and the secrecy provisions do not apply.

Is it a good way to run the country? The States, with their disparate political agendas, agree to the non-binding National Cabinet agreements but then it seems to all fall apart.

if you consider our Constitution this is how it was always meant to be except for WW2.

The states should make the decisions on internal matters and how it should be rolled out in their state. Health, police, education, welfare etc should all be 100% state based issues but co-operation between the states.

The feds should have been limited to what is specifically referred to in the Constitution

 

[Ned_Flanders]

zero issues with NC, but the minutes should be secret as they currently are

 

[QuietB]

zero issues with NC, but the minutes should be secret as they currently are

I assume you meant the minutes should NOT be secret?

National cabinet was only set up by Morrison so that everything could be secret. COAG already existed, but COAG is more transparent which was not to Morrison's liking.

So he set up a new forum with almost the exact same function except he got to write the rules around transparency and reporting.

Which as per Morrison's preference with most things obviously means there is no transparency or reporting.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I assume you meant the minutes should NOT be secret?

National cabinet was only set up by Morrison so that everything could be secret. COAG already existed, but COAG is more transparent which was not to Morrison's liking.

So he set up a new forum with almost the exact same function except he got to write the rules around transparency and reporting.

Which as per Morrison's preference with most things obviously means there is no transparency or reporting.

yeah, ****ed that with a shitty edit change (double deleted)

scomo is one of 9 voices in the NC. if its to continue, they have to be more public and more accountable with the decisions made in there

 

[Frank Bunn]

I assume you meant the minutes should NOT be secret?

National cabinet was only set up by Morrison so that everything could be secret. COAG already existed, but COAG is more transparent which was not to Morrison's liking.

So he set up a new forum with almost the exact same function except he got to write the rules around transparency and reporting.

Which as per Morrison's preference with most things obviously means there is no transparency or reporting.

The idea of Cabinet confidentiality is so that ministers can speak freely and disagree with each other during discussions. Only the decisions are made public. I don't have a problem with that, and I don't remember the State leaders making too much of a fuss about it.

But in other respects National Cabinet operates as a Cabinet in name only. Normally, Cabinet discussions are confidential but decisions that are a gateway to legislation being enacted are still subject to parliamentary scrutiny. National Cabinet seems unaccountable to both Commonwealth and State parliaments. And it doesn't seem to be an effective gateway for legislation and policy. There is clearly no collective responsibility as you would find in a normal government Cabinet.

The Fed and State leaders meet, then sometimes come up with some bodged up plan for the virus, which they have no commitment to. Last year it was a three-step roadmap. Now it's a four-phase plan - with no dates set out for the various phases, and lockdowns to be used only as a last resort. The plan has already failed at the first step.

 

[QuietB]

The idea of Cabinet confidentiality is so that ministers can speak freely and disagree with each other during discussions. Only the decisions are made public. I don't have a problem with that, and I don't remember the State leaders making too much of a fuss about it.

But in other respects National Cabinet operates as a Cabinet in name only. Normally, Cabinet discussions are confidential but decisions that are a gateway to legislation being enacted are still subject to parliamentary scrutiny. National Cabinet seems unaccountable to both Commonwealth and State parliaments. And it doesn't seem to be an effective gateway for legislation and policy. There is clearly no collective responsibility as you would find in a normal government Cabinet.

The Fed and State leaders meet, then sometimes come up with some bodged up plan for the virus, which they have no commitment to. Last year it was a three-step roadmap. Now it's a four-phase plan - with no dates set out for the various phases, and lockdowns to be used only as a last resort. The plan has already failed at the first step.

I can tell you that National Cabinet meets, the Feds write the minutes, and the states generally refute the minutes on the basis that they contain notes that are either not accurate or were not agreed at all or were maybe not even discussed at all. Every now and then this has played out in public.

national cabinet has not achieved a thing in 18 months. We still different systems in every single state for quarantine, lock downs, opening up, etc. and Morrison only got around to developing an agreed payment package last week.

It is purely political optics like all things with Morrison.

 

[Frank Bunn]

I can tell you that National Cabinet meets, the Feds write the minutes, and the states generally refute the minutes on the basis that they contain notes that are either not accurate or were not agreed at all or were maybe not even discussed at all.

Please provide evidence of this.

national cabinet has not achieved a thing in 18 months. We still different systems in every single state for quarantine, lock downs, opening up, etc.

We agree on this. Maybe National Cabinet is not a good solution.

 

[Proper Gander]

I have always assumed NC was COAG rebranded because it met the needs of the pandemic/warlike times. Everyone freaking out - let’s announce a National Cabinet! Good idea for the times really.

I hadn’t given any thought to whether the TOR or secrecy rules are especially different to COAG. Are they?

 

[QuietB]

Please provide evidence of this.

No can do

 

[QuietB]

I have always assumed NC was COAG rebranded because it met the needs of the pandemic/warlike times. Everyone freaking out - let’s announce a National Cabinet! Good idea for the times really.

I hadn’t given any thought to whether the TOR or secrecy rules are especially different to COAG. Are they?

Yes they are different. National cabinet has zero transparency and is 100% run and controlled by the feds.

 

[Brad Goodman]

Is this it?

 

[Frank Bunn]

Lol. Its the Federal Government that are in charge of/ responsible for Health and Quarantine.

Under the Constitution. Remember that little document?

If the Feds want to delegate this sh*t down to the States to handle individually, and wash their hands of it, then they cant exactly complain when it goes **** up.

The States are clearly exerting control over health and quarantine. Such as border closures, hotel quarantine, lockdowns. Are the Feds delegating control to the States or are the States happy to take that control? Or is it convenient to both?

What does the Constitution have to say around State border closures? Is it legal to prevent free movement of Australian citizens within their own country?

I switched the convo to this thread as we have moved to National Cabinet making important decisions for the country. Do you think the Constitution has implications for the move to National Cabinet?

 

[Frank Bunn]

Thanks for the link Dry Rot

A federal tribunal has ordered Prime Minister Scott Morrison’s department to release secret documents about the workings of national cabinet after rejecting government claims the peak group is a committee of federal cabinet.

The tribunal backed an appeal from independent senator Rex Patrick in a significant decision that opens national cabinet to public scrutiny through requests for its agendas, minutes and other documents.

The ruling also shatters government claims the peak group, led by Mr Morrison with state premiers and territory chief ministers, has the status of a committee of federal cabinet and is therefore shielded from scrutiny.

“The mere use of the name ‘national cabinet’ does not, of itself, have the effect of making a group of persons using the name a ‘committee of the cabinet’. Nor does the mere labelling of a committee as a ‘cabinet committee’ have that effect,” Justice White said in his judgment.

“The thing the Prime Minister labelled national cabinet is a faux cabinet. It’s just another intergovernmental meeting, in effect the former Council of Australian Governments, COAG, by another name,” Senator Patrick said. “For almost 40 years Australians have had a legal right under the Freedom of Information Act to access information relating to intergovernmental meetings, subject only to a test of public harm.

“Last year Prime Minister Morrison tried to take that right away. He did not ask the Parliament to change the law, he just declared that national cabinet to be part of the federal cabinet and as such exempt under the cabinet secrecy exemption of the FOI Act.”

“That arrogant declaration has now been overturned.”

National cabinet thrown open to scrutiny in ruling it is not a cabinet

Senator Rex Patrick has succeeded in his appeal for documents from national cabinet to be made available under FOI.

www.smh.com.au