Negative views

[wipeoff5]

As a long time lurker of this board i enjoy reading about the different topics that are posted and discussed. I also enjoy that people are allowed to express different views

Why is it that people come onto this board to be so negative about everything. Have a quick peruse of all the topics on these boards and you will see that they are all based around something bad happening past, present or future. I'm not sure of the demographic of the people who post here but I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this and why it occurs.

The only positive posts I've seen have been recently have been the one about multiculturalism and petro georgiou and even those were hijacked.

We live in a wonderful country. Sure there is poverty, drugs, crime, cancer, corrupt officials, dangerous animals... but i challenge you to find another nation you would prefer to live in. The things we worry about are petty and to be honest, if everyone thought a little before they posted we could have more mature board.

Feel free to turn this thread into a negative if you wish but I mean it would just be indicative of this board.

 

[CoggaRules]

As a long time lurker of this board i enjoy reading about the different topics that are posted and discussed. I also enjoy that people are allowed to express different views

Why is it that people come onto this board to be so negative about everything. Have a quick peruse of all the topics on these boards and you will see that they are all based around something bad happening past, present or future. I'm not sure of the demographic of the people who post here but I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this and why it occurs.

The only positive posts I've seen have been recently have been the one about multiculturalism and petro georgiou and even those were hijacked.

We live in a wonderful country. Sure there is poverty, drugs, crime, cancer, corrupt officials, dangerous animals... but i challenge you to find another nation you would prefer to live in. The things we worry about are petty and to be honest, if everyone thought a little before they posted we could have more mature board.

Feel free to turn this thread into a negative if you wish but I mean it would just be indicative of this board.

Good for you there WO, there is solitude in ignorance. And I am not being sarcastic my man, but my concious kinda doesnt allow me to sit back and not say something about the not so wonderful world, our wonderful country is in.

 

[dan warna]

True in someways

I posted a thread congratulating the govt on its gaurantee of minimum standards in telecommunications and it sunk through to the bottom...

 

[otaku]

there is only so much "this is good, innit?" that a thread can take. Negativity breeds conversation.

 

[ExpectToWin]

As a long time lurker of this board i enjoy reading about the different topics that are posted and discussed. I also enjoy that people are allowed to express different views

Why is it that people come onto this board to be so negative about everything. Have a quick peruse of all the topics on these boards and you will see that they are all based around something bad happening past, present or future. I'm not sure of the demographic of the people who post here but I was wondering if anyone else had noticed this and why it occurs.

The only positive posts I've seen have been recently have been the one about multiculturalism and petro georgiou and even those were hijacked.

We live in a wonderful country. Sure there is poverty, drugs, crime, cancer, corrupt officials, dangerous animals... but i challenge you to find another nation you would prefer to live in. The things we worry about are petty and to be honest, if everyone thought a little before they posted we could have more mature board.

Feel free to turn this thread into a negative if you wish but I mean it would just be indicative of this board.

Its just human nature WO. Its like watching the news which is loaded with stories of death, war, famine, government disputes etc and then every now and again there is a little feel good story right at the end that ends up with the news readers looking down the camera with gooby smiles on their faces.

Current Affairs shows are worse as they nearly always show the negatives in most aspects of life. If they are not doing that they are reporting on the latest diet.

On a positive note, what a great country we live in where there is a thousand opportunities a day to better ones self both on a personal level and financially.

 

[wipeoff5]

Good point about the negative aspects of life breeding conversation, which it should.

And Cogga, I'm one of the first people to admit that the world is a ********ed up place, it has been since forever, but you know what, why let it get to us, because as Expecttowin said, there are thousands of opportunities every day and plenty of positives to be discussed too.

By the way, I'm as cynical as the next person on most issues but why let it get to you.

Anyhow, thanks for your input guys, I'll keep listening to your opinions with an open-mind

 

[rick James]

Good for you there WO, there is solitude in ignorance. And I am not being sarcastic my man, but my concious kinda doesnt allow me to sit back and not say something about the not so wonderful world, our wonderful country is in.

do you mean your conscience? I've seen you get that wrong heaps of times, it gives me the irrits.

 

[CoggaRules]

Good point about the negative aspects of life breeding conversation, which it should.

And Cogga, I'm one of the first people to admit that the world is a ********ed up place, it has been since forever, but you know what, why let it get to us, because as Expecttowin said, there are thousands of opportunities every day and plenty of positives to be discussed too.

By the way, I'm as cynical as the next person on most issues but why let it get to you.

Anyhow, thanks for your input guys, I'll keep listening to your opinions with an open-mind

understand where you are coming from WO, and like i said would love to bury my head in the sand, and i am not having a go, its what you have to do to be able to just do what you do. But i have kids, its not about us my man, its what sort of wondeful country and wondeful world our country is in, that is going to be there for the kids, and their kids and so on.
We are insulated from the rest, we have forever been the arse end of the world, no one gave a stuff about Aus, and that suited us down to the ground, thats why anyone that visited would walk over broken glass to get back, that is why whenever I went overseas, i would come back and say staright away, you just dont know how good it is to be back in Aus people, if you have any complants their trivial to what i have seen.
But and there is always a but , especially nowadays, we are no longer the arse end of the world, our wise leader has thrust us on the back of another nations wish, into the total spotlight, and if you read the below trascript, the madness is now on our doorstep, notonly that, you will see they have some sort of religious poilice that have full control of anything and everything, and now we are about to get the something similar, that is suppose to protect us, but it also looks like its going to protect other things as well:
Its bloody madness my man, I have always said it that religion is going to get us into trouble, but the one thing that could save the world was that Aus, was Aus, and it didnt matter what you were, you were and life went on.

For three decades Malaysia has experienced a slow Islamic revival. In the last year this revival has accelerated dramatically. Jeslina Hashim is a pop star. She is a Malaysian Muslim but carries herself like a young Western woman. Until recently that had never caused her trouble. Then one night earlier this year, Jeslina stayed out late in Kuala Lumpur's club district.
Malaysia's religious authorities sprung a surprise raid on a disco called Zouk. Jeslina was arrested for violating Malaysia's Sharia law.

JESLINA HASHIM, MALAYSIAN POP STAR: Suddenly the lights came on and my friend was like "Hey, put the light back off." And I said to my friend, "Don't make a joke out of it. Because normally when the lights come on there's a raid."
Somebody went on the stage and announced that Muslims on the left, non-Muslims can leave, but everybody had to show their IC to prove that they are non-Muslim.

It was the state religious enforcement authority, known as the moral police. In the past, religious raids were carried out mostly in slums or cheap motels where Muslims were caught committing extramarital sex. They had never hit such a high profile target. Jeslina's crime was that she was indecently dressed. It was left up to individual officers to determine exactly what that meant.

JESLINA HASHIM: After all the decent ones have left there were like 20 of us left in the cell. This guy came up to us and said, "OK, all of you girls, stand up, stand up all of you, OK, you, come here, twirl, twirl." They wanted to see how tight it is, how transparent your top is, how tight your pants are, everything. It's not their job. If they were to do it properly, lady officers should have been doing that.

The Zouk raid was a turning point for religious policy.

ZAINAH ANWAR, FOUNDER OF WOMEN’S RIGHTS LOBBY: They were arrested. They were examined and made to parade in front of the religious officials to ascertain whether the dress they were wearing was decent or indecent, you know. And they were humiliated in that process, they were sexually harassed in that process. And this is not the first time that this has happened.

Zainah Anwar is the founder of the women's rights lobby group Sisters In Islam. For years Zainah has fought against the expansion of Sharia law in Malaysia. She was alarmed by the Zouk raid.

ZAINAH ANWAR: Many provisions in the sharia criminal laws actually overlap with the penal code, violate constitutional guarantees of fundamental liberties, and it really goes beyond the scope of the state authorities to legislate on. And really this needs to be reviewed and the whole lawmaking process in the name of Islam in the country has to be reviewed.

Malaysia's Sharia courts only have power over Muslims who make up more than half the nation's people. The Sharia controls family law and a few religious crimes. But there are many Islamic laws which are not enforced.
In theory, Muslims can be arrested for not praying five times a day or for drinking alcohol. Two states, Kelantan and Terengannu have passed the hudud laws, which call for penalties like the severing of hands for theft, stoning of women for adultery, or death for leaving the Islamic faith.
The reason these laws are not enforced is because of a power struggle between the federal government and the religious authorities in the various states.

ZAINAH ANWAR: The leadership of the country is far more progressive, another arm of the government, the religious authorities, you know, is conservative so there's always been this conflict. And this is where you know, it needs to be resolved, because it's ridiculous that these laws are on the statute books.

Many Muslims have defended the Zouk raid, despite the accusations of harassment.

DR JEMILAH MAHMOOD, GYNAECOLOGIST: I think the Zouk raid was really a big test case. It really opened up the eyes of many people on the issue of enforcement of Sharia.

Dr Jemilah Mahmood is a Malaysian gynaecologist who delivers medical aid in the world's worst crisis zones - Darfur, Aceh, Iraq and others.

DR JEMILAH MAHMOOD: While I did not agree with the way some of the enforcement officers behaved, which gives less dignity to the enforcement of Sharia, I believe that it is part of our constitution, it is part of our duties as Muslims to enjoin others to do good, and forbid evil.

Dr Jemilah's favourite quiet spot is here in the Islamic Arts Museum.

DR JEMILAH MAHMOOD: Muslims used to lead the world in everything in science, in arts, in architecture.

As a religious conservative, she believes that the authorities haven't gone far enough.

DR JEMILAH MAHMOOD: I hope someone will be brave enough to say, "If we are going to be honest about implementing Sharia, then, yes, go a step further to say that Muslims are not allowed into areas which have alcohol, or are not allowed to purchase alcohol."

Tan Sri Abdul Hamid Othman is the top advisor to the Prime Minister on Islamic affairs. He denies that the Zouk raid represents a major policy shift.

TAN SRI ABDUL HAMID OTHMAN, PM ADVISOR ON ISLAMIC AFFAIRS: The raid as is established now is not according to the procedures. So the enthusiasm in certain group of workers, of people cannot be taken as the policy of the government.

At the heart of Malaysia's Islamic policy is the new Prime Minister, Abdullah Ahmad Badawi. He has just arrived in the state of Kedah to deliver a lecture on progressive Islam. Few people expected that Abdullah Badawi would ever become Prime Minister. But when Dr Mahathir Mohamad retired in 2003, after 22 years in power, Abdullah's credentials were exactly what his party needed.

TAN SRI ABDUL HAMID OTHMAN: His background is religious, an Islamic scholar's background. His father was a great scholar, his grandfather. And then his father was a great scholar and politician as well during the struggle of independence in this country.

ABDULLAH AHMAD BADAWI, PRIME MINISTER (Translation): The only constant is the teachings and principals of the Koran, which will remain forever, but everything else in the country is subject to change.

Former prime minister Dr Mahathir was seen as being too secular. So in the 1980s he recruited the popular young religious leader Anwar Ibrahim. For years Anwar helped to bolster the government's Islamic credentials. But when Anwar became a threat he was sacked and sent to jail on charges of sodomy and corruption.

DR.MAHATHIR MOHAMAD: No regrets at all. The law must take its course.

The arrest backfired. In the 1999 elections thousands of Muslims turned against the ruling party.

ZAINAH ANWAR: The former prime minister Dr Mahathir had adopted an Islamisation policy, and it became a tiger that he lost control of - it was hijacked, it was redefined, it was defined by others.

By the time Dr Mahathir announced his retirement, the government's Islamic credibility had been badly damaged. So the new Prime Minister, Abdullah Badawi, decided to redraw the government's religious image. He created his own brand of progressive Islam - Islam Hadhari - and won a landslide victory in last year's elections.

DR JEMILAH MAHMOOD: I think in the end, everything is about how you market things, so I think as a marketing strategy probably it was very clever to come up with Islam Hadhari.

Abdullah Badawi's religious ideas have also been marketed overseas. Malaysia holds the chair of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference. OIC member nations like Pakistan have now created their own Islam Hadhari campaigns.
But back home, Malaysia's ethnic Chinese and Indian population are increasingly concerned about the Islamic revival. This is a tension that the government is keenly aware of.

REPORTER: How much impact does Islam Hadhari have on your policy decisions?

ABDULLAH BADAWI: Well, a lot certainly. And the Islam Hadhari is a guide, actually, is a strategy. And it does not in any way discriminate against non-Muslims. Never.

The Parliamentary Opposition Leader, Lim Kit Siang, is ethnic Chinese. He claims he was arrested for trying to keep religion out of politics.

LIM KIT SIANG, FEDERAL OPPOSITION LEADER: I was arrested three years ago for advocating that Malaysia must remain as a multi-religious, secular, democratic nation. As I said, such advocacy in the first three decades of Malaysian nationhood wouldn't have raised any eyebrows, now it's regarded as bordering on being anti-national, of being un-Malaysian, of trying to destroy the very fabric of this Malaysian nation.
So I think the goalposts are being moved, and I think these are matters of very grave concern.

These days even Muslims have to practice the state-approved form of Islam, anything else is considered to be deviant by the religious authorities.
In April of last year almost 100 members of a Muslim sect, called the Tarikat, were arrested in Selangor. They were accused of practising beliefs which were against Islam, including bathing in lime juice to cleanse themselves from sin and not praying five times a day.
Fear of arrest acts like a brake on public debate in Malaysia, so it was surprising when, following the Zouk raid, a forum on the public morality laws was organised in Kuala Lumpur.

SPEAKER: The problem is that immorality in our society now is rampant.

At the conference the divide between Malaysia's Muslims and non-Muslims became clear.

WOMAN: I think the real conflict is whether Malaysia is a multi-racial country or an Islamic country. That is the basic thing.

MAN: They have the right to criticise Islam but, at the same time, they don't have the right to teach us how we are going to practice as a Muslim.

WOMAN 2: In Malaysia we have politicised, we have racialised our Islam. Don't demonise us non-Muslims, we will talk about when the Sharia does impact on us and we will be allowed to do so, please.

WOMAN 3: I think when I donate blood, my blood may go to the Muslim, when I pay my tax, my money benefits too.

Zainah Anwar was a keynote speaker at the conference.

ZAINAH ANWAR: The question as to what interpretation and understanding of Islam should be law must be open to public debate.

But she has no formal religious training. Because of that, many Muslims believe that she has no right to comment on Islamic laws.

JESLINA HASHIM: Traditionally we've all been brought up to feel that this is an Islamic matter, we don't have - as citizens, and as believers - we don't have a right to talk about Islam, to question Islam, or even the implementation of Islamic laws because that would be questioning divine law and questioning God's will.

DR JEMILAH MAHMOOD: Islam cannot be interpreted by the normal person on the street. It has to be scholastic interpretation. It is a religion, you know. I give this example all the times to friends. We both speak English. I'm a medical person, I can give you an English textbook in medicine and I can produce a patient and tell you, "OK, treat the patient now," and you wouldn't be able to do that properly because you haven't been taught the science of medicine.
So it's the same thing with the Koran - there is a lot of science to it, why it was revealed, what was the history behind each sentence, each verse.

The idea of divine law is a great challenge to Malaysia's democracy. Divine laws cannot be altered by democratic methods. They are based on the idea that sovereignty comes from God, not from the public.
The push for divine leadership fuelled the 1979 Iranian Revolution. For many Malaysian Muslims, the revolution was a defining moment. Back then, Dr Mazeni Alwi was a medical student studying cardiology in Queensland. Today he is Malaysia's top child heart specialist.

DR MAZENI ALWI, CARDIOLOGIST: I gained quite a lot in terms of learning about Islam from the Iranian revolution. I was struck that that kind of thing could happen in the second half of the 20th century - that a mullah with a beard and turban could influence a lot of young people to rise up against a government, and some got killed in the process.
So that has a lot of influence among young Muslims, including Malaysians who were abroad at that time.

Dr Mazeni is the founder of the Muslim Professionals Forum. The MPF is only one year old. The group lobbies on behalf of an emerging political force - Malaysia's well-educated, conservative Muslim middle class. The MPF believes that Malaysia's future should be built on the past.

DR MAZENI ALWI: We know that Islam has had its moments before in history, that it has built a civilisation which was very well known for its excellence in all branches of knowledge so I think there is no reason why we cannot emulate even a fraction of that.

DR JEMILAH MAHMOOD: We look at that move by people to liberalise Islam because their perception of being liberal is to be Westernised and I think that's a wrong perception. You do not have to be conforming to what Western traditions demand of you to be a liberated human being.

Members of the MPF send their children to private Islamic schools like this one. 30 years ago there was no Muslim middle class. The Malay Muslims were the poor in their own country. The government has since done everything it can to empower Malays in education and in the work force.
These children are the first generation that will grow up in a Malaysia where Muslims control the balance of economic and political power. The government that helped create this group now has no choice but to cater to its interests.

TAN SRI ABDUL HAMID OTHMAN: Always, you know, the middle class of the citizens of a country, they are the main groups, represent the main group of the population, so their awareness, their understanding, is very important because they are decision makers of the country, especially in the democratic system like ours.

Malaysia is now at a turning point. Today, Muslims who step outside the state-approved practice of moderate Islam face the threat of arrest. After the Zouk raid, Jesalina Hashim got off on a technicality. A short while later, she married a New Zealander. The law required that, in order to marry a Muslim, he convert to Islam before the wedding. He is now bound by all of Malaysia's religious laws.

CELEBRANT: He must not hurt her in any way. Then she has the right to go to Sharia court and claim divorce by demonstrating with the Sharia court.

JESLINA: He's still very new to Islam, there's still a lot for him to learn. And I won't shove it down his throat, at the same time. And he knows where I stand and I wouldn't marry somebody who wasn't ready to embrace Islam properly.

There are still many Muslims like Jeslina who want religion left out of the courts and out of the hands of politicians as a private matter between themselves and their God.

JESLINA: I'm not perfect. I'm not a perfect Muslim. Maybe I don't dress like a proper Muslim should, but I feel like maybe in the future when I'm older, I want to cover my hair, and when I'm ready I'll do it. But I'm not going to do it because that's what the public asks of me.



GEORGE NEGUS: And last week Prime Minister Badawi's popular wife Endon Mahmood died after a long battle with cancer. She was much-loved throughout Malaysia for her charity work, particularly the welfare of children and women.

 

[Murray]

I think it more to do with people being concerned for the future and wishing to ensure the mistakes of the past are not repeated.

No doubt there are a lot of fantastic things about Australia, but all we would get in a thread are

Topic started, premise outlined
Agreed
Agreed
Agreed
Agreed

For 4 pages of boring nothing.

Debate by its very nature, requires two opposing idea's
At the end of the debate there is either consensus or an agreement to disagree.