Never win the Premiership with Josh

[Jie_Hodge]

not to bag josh fraser but...
We wil never win a premiership with josh fraser our number one ruck
plain and simle
black and white

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

yep, and you need another key defender as well, presti just couldnt go with roo..... i know of one that will be on the market at the end of this year, former collingwood forward just promise that you wont give us medhurst back and we can do a deal

 

[smiddaz123]

We need Wood in the side, I agree.

 

[Dansolo]

You're right - that wasn't bagging Josh at all Sorry mate, I disagree - he was far from our worst today and did alot of work at ground level. I like Cam Wood alot but playing him today would have been worse than using him as shark bait - he would have been torn apart by King and Gardiner. Rocca was the only one that could really match them body on body. Let's not get carried away with the loss - we improved by 64 points!

 

[Thommo 42]

he had 21 players, can't underestimate losing a player to injury in the 1st quarter, especially when it is Pendles.

Reid to come in to play on Reiwolt in the GF

 

[cakewalk_1]

not to bag josh fraser but...
We wil never win a premiership with josh fraser our number one ruck
plain and simle
black and white

We need Wood to take over the number 1 ruck and have Josh play a second ruck/forward role if we are to go deep in September.

BTW I thought Josh played well today and he was in our better players who tried hard all day. I think he has carried the ruck for 9 years now about time he gets some support.

 

[MagpieGirl_13]

not to bag josh fraser but...
We wil never win a premiership with josh fraser our number one ruck
plain and simle
black and white

You begin by saying that you don't want to "bag" Josh..... just you pretty much say he's useless. Oh, that's not bagging him at all....

Why don't we just go & through Brad Dick in the ruck? looks like everyone else has pretty much been culled.

 

[pants forever]

The crazy thing about Josh is that we expect him to do so much...Today, puting him up against two quality ruckman was about the dumbest selection I can remember. What I didn't understand about it more was, Wood and Fraser have the opportunity now to become a fantastic potent weapon. Both play around the ground well and while not winning all ruck contest nullify the effectiveness of the opposition ruckman, then spread well or follow up at ground level extremely well. Both push forward offensively well and both are not scared to play down back either

Josh likes ground time. Why not move him forward and rest him forward while Wood rucks. I felt all week that was the way to go. Even using him sparingly to help Travis Cloke out.

I do not think Collingwood can win a premiership with out Fraser over the next few years. My concern now is, by playing him one out, are we shortening his career.

 

[domus]

Josh rates himself as a ruckman. At best he is a handy midfielder. He is continually destroyed by opposition ruckman at the centre bounces and continues to win soft possessions which make his performance look "reasonable" on paper, but this is often avery long way from the reality of his actual impact on a game.. He has absolutely no physical presence and for those who say poor Josh is overworked and has no support, the man himself says he prefers to go it alone. If that is the case then you would hope he would back it up just once or twice a year with a dominant big man display. Wood must be in the team next week.

 

[KissStephanie]

not to bag josh fraser but...
We wil never win a premiership with josh fraser our number one ruck

Whether or not Fraser is the first ruck is not going to make that sort of difference. Collingwood probably would have beaten Geelong in the 2007 Preliminary Final had Fraser played, and he probably would have been a premiership player the following week.

He has clearly struggled with his knee since he hurt it playing for Victoria last season, and he is still recovering from his operation. When the knee improves, then so will Fraser, but there should be two ruckmen playing though.

 

[kevind]

not to bag josh fraser but...
We wil never win a premiership with josh fraser our number one ruck
plain and simle
black and white

I have to agree with you. IMO you need ruckmen with physical presence to win premierships and Josh is just far too much the 'nice guy'. I cannot remember the last time we had a great performance by a ruckman in a final.

BTW, you were bagging him. And so did I.

 

[kevind]

Whether or not Fraser is the first ruck is not going to make that sort of difference. Collingwood probably would have beaten Geelong in the 2007 Preliminary Final had Fraser played, and he probably would have been a premiership player the following week.

The Lexus Centre is overflowing with 'would have premierships'. I think we may lead the AFL in 'would have premierships'.

Unfortunately you do not get to celebrate them, you get no kudos, no silverware and all in all, in the great scheme of things they are totally meaningless and a complete waste of time.

I'd also prefer a ruckman to a 'would have ruckman'. They tend to achieve more meaningful results.

 

[Eagle87]

Hypothetically, cos he isnt available, but what would Dean Cox be worth to Collingwood?

I mean what would people on here reckon your club would give up for arguably the best ruckman in the game? Injury obviously slowed him this year...

Its just been a weakness of yours for so long its remarkable it hasnt been solved. The Saints had the same issue and went and got two highly talented but risky guys and its worked well .... just wonder what the Pies would give to turn that position into a strength rather than a weakness.

 

[kevind]

Hypothetically, cos he isnt available, but what would Dean Cox be worth to Collingwood?

I mean what would people on here reckon your club would give up for arguably the best ruckman in the game? Injury obviously slowed him this year...

Its just been a weakness of yours for so long its remarkable it hasnt been solved. The Saints had the same issue and went and got two highly talented but risky guys and its worked well .... just wonder what the Pies would give to turn that position into a strength rather than a weakness.

As a starting bid, how about the Lexus Centre.

 

[Lexus Rose Oval]

Josh should play up forward 80% of the game and rotate through the ruck to give Wood a chop out.And i hope malthouse learns from yesterdays mistake. I would also like to see Reid come into the side, I think he would have been handy dropping back into space and cutting off alot of roo's leads.

 

[the_jib]

would josh and our first rounder get us Sandilands?...

 

[KissStephanie]

The Lexus Centre is overflowing with 'would have premierships'. I think we may lead the AFL in 'would have premierships'.

That wasn't my point at all. My point was simply that Collingwood can win a premiership with Fraser in the first ruck, but I think a second ruckman is needed. Collingwood lost to St.Kilda because of their dominance in the midfield, while neither Gardiner or King were in St.Kilda's best 15 players in my opinion.

Unfortunately you do not get to celebrate them, you get no kudos, no silverware and all in all, in the great scheme of things they are totally meaningless and a complete waste of time.

Is that right? Why on earth are you going so far off from the point that I was making? My point was that Fraser missing in the 2007 Preliminary Final was quite realistically the reason that Collingwood did not win the premiership.

I'd also prefer a ruckman to a 'would have ruckman'. They tend to achieve more meaningful results.

I have no idea what your little rant has to do with anything that I wrote, and Collingwood do have a ruckman, but unfortunately he is carrying a well documented knee problem which should improve.

 

[Jie_Hodge]

Whether or not Fraser is the first ruck is not going to make that sort of difference. Collingwood probably would have beaten Geelong in the 2007 Preliminary Final had Fraser played, and he probably would have been a premiership player the following week.

He has clearly struggled with his knee since he hurt it playing for Victoria last season, and he is still recovering from his operation. When the knee improves, then so will Fraser, but there should be two ruckmen playing though.

Yeah i here you i worded my original post wrong, I meant we wont win with just Josh our only ruckmen, I just think two ruckmen.

Whether Josh is our first choice ruckman dont matter, but we need two decent ruckmen to share the load about at least 60-40, and if Josh like ground time then rest him foward, but i only remember one game this (off the top of my head) against Melbourne that Fraser was had a real big impact on the game.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

All you people who think Josh isn't an issue need to take the blinkers off.

He's not a no.1 Ruck. Never has been.

We should have used pick 10 on Ottens instead of that useless Chris Egan. All Richmond wanted was a top ten pick.

 

[kevind]

That wasn't my point at all. My point was simply that Collingwood can win a premiership with Fraser in the first ruck, but I think a second ruckman is needed.

And you don't understand my point. The would haves/could haves/buts and ifs are never true because they never happened. My guess on the hypothetical is that we would have still lost to Geelong in '07 with Fraser in the side. But as I say, I am only guessing. So are you. They have no value whtsoever and should be read as the meaningless nonsense that they are.

They are just more excuses that the deluded supporters on this forum keep coming up with to justify mediocrity.

Until Collingwood understand that your ruckmen need to bring a level of physicality to the table, we will continue to have let downs in games that really matter.

To me Fraser, Wood and Keefe(from what I have seen of him) are all skinny, non physical types of players. IMO, those types will always be exposed in finals.

 

[shawthing09]

We need to do one of 2 things find a midfield absolutely stacked full of dominate clearance players or find a ruck who is better able to get our midfield first use of the ball.

Josh is good against other ruckmen who are not fantastic with the tap work where he can get nil all draws and make up for it at ground level and around the ground or against rucks with a smaller tank but equal workload where he can run them off their feet. Unfortunately against good ruck duo's giving good service to their midfield we get hurt far too much around the stoppages.

FWIW I think all the talk of Fraser the foward is useless, his lack of pressence and physicality mean at best as a foward he would be a big roaming wingmen which unfortunately seems to be the only area Cloke is able to excel at the moment.

I don't think his useless I just think there should be more of a horses for courses policy as to who is the number one and 2 ruck.

 

[Old Spice]

If we were going to go with one ruck to make room for an extra mid to absorb a tagger and compete with the Saints, I could understand. To use the extra spot to squeeze in Leroy and Rocca was not very helpful. One big tall okay, but two was no good.

We just bombed it long in the 2nd half hoping to reach Rocca which was utterly alien to the way we've played all year. I'd hate to see that repeated and an extra mid would have allowed us more fluency and loose men around the middle to get some run and carry and midfield goals from the 50 arc.

 

[Pies_10]

Josh is good when Wood is also in.
So Wood must play next week.

 

[jazzy]

surely the pies will throw the kitchen sink plus more for sandilands??

 

[Old Spice]

Freo lost Warnock to the Blues so I can't see them letting Sandilands go in a big hurry. Has Sandilands indicated he wants a move?