Strategy New Rules to help Pies

[cleomenes]

I like the thought of most posts. As much as we'd all like to see the ball go directly into the forward line, I keep thinking these wingers will have around a quarter of the ground for a one on one contest. If the coaches allow that to happen, we'll be seeing some great one on one contested footy.
Centre bounce to a forward of centre winger, who draws out the closest forwards making more space in the arc.

I don't think the wingers will stay out there. It is much more likely that they will rush into the square as they do now, or charge back into defence. The good thing is that they can't lurk at the back of the square.
The actual forwards and backs probably won't do much that is different either. It is the absence of a seventh defender to start play that is the change.

In my view, these changes are band aids to avoid facing the real problem which is interchange. Until a way can be found to remove interchange as a tactical tool for coaches, while retaining the ability to exchange injured players for fit ones, and allow recovered players to return, the stultifying tackle fest will remain the norm for our once great game.

 

[Grapie]

Not sure this post generates a valid analysis.

Apologies for the obtuse post as a result of not linking to the analysis in the initial post creating this thread.

 

[Forethought]

Re the new kick in rule:

The kick in square is 9m in length with the man on the mark now having to be 10 m back ( it was 5 m in 2018 )

The rule now states that players in that 19 m zone must be treated the same as the man on the mark in general play . This means they must run in an east / west direction when leaving the 19 m protected zone.

All the players in that zone must not come toward the kick in player, thus allowing him a greater clearance area.

Imagine how many player are out of play with a quick behind in the goal square. Some 12-16 player at any time.

Now think of the support players around that contest ? On a press there could be another 10 players within 30 m of goal .

The backline press could have the most of your team within 50-60m of the Oppo goal line.

As the kick in player isn’t required to tap the ball on his foot and can simply run through the 9 m goal square line when kicking in ( no one allowed within 10 m of him.) That kicker if elite could gain an extra 5-7m he is kicking in and kick the ball say 65 m this being an 80m plus play .

90% off all the field position players could then be behind the ball landing in the Center sq or in the attacking half of the ground of the defensive team.

If read where coaches have said the team rules for having a shot on goal will totally change as the risk of the counter attack will be to great.

The outcome of this will be less longer shots on goal and more kicks to the top of the sq but at least 20m out now. They won’t want a rushed behind and have counter attack .

Continue press in the forward 50 m with the traditional kick out back to a pack 60m out on a defensive well numbered high HBF will now change.

The ability for sides to turn 4-6 min presses in their backline will change to straight scoring opportunities from a behind.

Sides will be practicing key one on one plays for this on Center wings or 80-85 meters from their goal line. This not allowing repeat enteries .

You only have to look at the Pies last 40 mins vs the Eagles in the GF when we couldn’t clear the ball from our defensive line. The amount of repeat enteries from the WCE just wore us down.

The risk to reward on kick ins is now greater than ever before.

The goal to goal scoring will be at its highest in 2019.

Look forward to some comments on this.

 

[cleomenes]

Re the new kick in rule:

The kick in square is 9m in length with the man on the mark now having to be 10 m back ( it was 5 m in 2018 )

The rule now states that players in that 19 m zone must be treated the same as the man on the mark in general play . This means they must run in an east / west direction when leaving the 19 m protected zone.

All the players in that zone must not come toward the kick in player, thus allowing him a greater clearance area.

Imagine how many player are out of play with a quick behind in the goal square. Some 12-16 player at any time.

Now think of the support players around that contest ? On a press there could be another 10 players within 30 m of goal .

The backline press could have the most of your team within 50-60m of the Oppo goal line.

As the kick in player isn’t required to tap the ball on his foot and can simply run through the 9 m goal square line when kicking in ( no one allowed within 10 m of him.) That kicker if elite could gain an extra 5-7m he is kicking in and kick the ball say 65 m this being an 80m plus play .

90% off all the field position players could then be behind the ball landing in the Center sq or in the attacking half of the ground of the defensive team.

If read where coaches have said the team rules for having a shot on goal will totally change as the risk of the counter attack will be to great.

The outcome of this will be less longer shots on goal and more kicks to the top of the sq but at least 20m out now. They won’t want a rushed behind and have counter attack .

Continue press in the forward 50 m with the traditional kick out back to a pack 60m out on a defensive well numbered high HBF will now change.

The ability for sides to turn 4-6 min presses in their backline will change to straight scoring opportunities from a behind.

Sides will be practicing key one on one plays for this on Center wings or 80-85 meters from their goal line. This not allowing repeat enteries .

You only have to look at the Pies last 40 mins vs the Eagles in the GF when we couldn’t clear the ball from our defensive line. The amount of repeat enteries from the WCE just wore us down.

The risk to reward on kick ins is now greater than ever before.

The goal to goal scoring will be at its highest in 2019.

Look forward to some comments on this.

Some possibilities for real consequences here, and you would expect that not all are intended by the AFL. The possibility of team rules for shots at goal changing is worrying and had not occurred to me. If long running shots and snaps under pressure are cut by coaches it will be to the detriment of the game. Forcing back passes rather than low percentage shots from the boundary is also a worry. You have brought me thoughts that I really didn't want to have.

 

[NoobPie]

I don’t think there will be substantial changes to team rules going forward. Teams will still want to kick goals and to do that you need to take shots. Any changes to approach will be marginal

IMHO the opening up from the kick out from the two changes is a big improvement to a situation that had become way too biased towards the team that just missed

 

[Forethought]

Some possibilities for real consequences here, and you would expect that not all are intended by the AFL. The possibility of team rules for shots at goal changing is worrying and had not occurred to me. If long running shots and snaps under pressure are cut by coaches it will be to the detriment of the game. Forcing back passes rather than low percentage shots from the boundary is also a worry. You have brought me thoughts that I really didn't want to have.

The AFL this year consulted a wide range of opinions from all groups involved in the game. This has to be credited, however watching the AFL heads at second rate games in the VFL to see how it works pales in what will happen in a real game of AFL once you’ve had 100 plus full time strategists pull these new rules apart.
Coaches have always said we’ll just coach to the rules we’ve been given.

It makes for an interesting year ahead , who will create the next Pagan’s Paddock or Clarcko’s Cluster.

 

[Jafo]

Blah too many stats. See ball, get ball. Team with less mistakes and more points (goals included for those traditional people out there), wins. That’s all folks.

 

[jackcass]

Be very interesting to see how teams adapt to these new rules and who will benefit.

I think the addition of Beams along with continued growth from the likes Grundy and Sier should see improvement in our midfield. Players who work hard both ways will become critical.

I think the wing positions will go to players with leg speed and good 1v1 defensive ability, and there'll be significantly more rotations with small forwards. I think that will work in our favor with players like WHE, Stephenson, and Elliott rotating with the Treloar, Beams, Sidebottom and Phillips types.

Where we'll struggle is our lack of elite KPP types at either end. Our defence coped with that this year by using a +1 intercept type which might be tougher to orchestrate in 2019. It's a bit of a bonus that all our medium-small defenders are good marking players and all pretty quick (bar Schaz).

 

[MagpieJoel]

AFL 2019: Champion Data’s 2019 AFL Prospectus on how 6-6-6 starting positions will impact Richmond most of all


https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...ZZZnhyFA_ElZvCRtK_6WgFlDASPwaXDfwN87QurmvzTp4

The introduction of 6-6-6 starting positions at all centre bounces, with six players in the defensive and forward 50s as well as the midfield zone, will impact the Tigers more than any other club.

TEAM USAGE OF 6-6-6 STARTING POSITIONS IN 2018
Brisbane Lions - 67.9% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Collingwood - 64.9% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Gold Coast Suns - 64.9% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Western Bulldogs - 64.8% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Essendon - 60.5% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Geelong Cats - 53.7% [Most common: 6-6-6]
West Coast Eagles - 53.2% [Most common: 6-6-6]
St Kilda - 48.7% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Carlton - 43.9% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Hawthorn - 43.9% [Most common: 6-6-6]
GWS Giants - 36.4% [Most common: 7-6-5]
Sydney Swans - 35.5% [Most common: 7-6-5]
Port Adelaide - 30.8% [Most common: 7-6-5]
Fremantle - 25.8% [Most common: 7-6-5]
Melbourne - 24.3% [Most common: 7-6-5]
North Melbourne - 10.6% [Most common: 7-6-5]
Adelaide Crows - 4.4% [Most common: 7-6-5]
Richmond - 3.4% [Most common: 7-6-5]

 

[sregit]

Re the new kick in rule:

The kick in square is 9m in length with the man on the mark now having to be 10 m back ( it was 5 m in 2018 )

The rule now states that players in that 19 m zone must be treated the same as the man on the mark in general play . This means they must run in an east / west direction when leaving the 19 m protected zone.

All the players in that zone must not come toward the kick in player, thus allowing him a greater clearance area.

Imagine how many player are out of play with a quick behind in the goal square. Some 12-16 player at any time.

Now think of the support players around that contest ? On a press there could be another 10 players within 30 m of goal .

The backline press could have the most of your team within 50-60m of the Oppo goal line.

As the kick in player isn’t required to tap the ball on his foot and can simply run through the 9 m goal square line when kicking in ( no one allowed within 10 m of him.) That kicker if elite could gain an extra 5-7m he is kicking in and kick the ball say 65 m this being an 80m plus play .

90% off all the field position players could then be behind the ball landing in the Center sq or in the attacking half of the ground of the defensive team.

If read where coaches have said the team rules for having a shot on goal will totally change as the risk of the counter attack will be to great.

The outcome of this will be less longer shots on goal and more kicks to the top of the sq but at least 20m out now. They won’t want a rushed behind and have counter attack .
O
Continue press in the forward 50 m with the traditional kick out back to a pack 60m out on a defensive well numbered high HBF will now change.

The ability for sides to turn 4-6 min presses in their backline will change to straight scoring opportunities from a behind.

Sides will be practicing key one on one plays for this on Center wings or 80-85 meters from their goal line. This not allowing repeat enteries .

You only have to look at the Pies last 40 mins vs the Eagles in the GF when we couldn’t clear the ball from our defensive line. The amount of repeat enteries from the WCE just wore us down.

The risk to reward on kick ins is now greater than ever before.

The goal to goal scoring will be at its highest in 2019.

Look forward to some comments on this.

Very good points you’ve made here. Teams will not be able to have complete forward presses for if you score a point, you will regularly be caught with 80% of your players behind the ball when the opposing side kicks in quickly. The press will mostly now be a centre press. Just contain the ball in your forward half. Not necessarily forward 50. If you commit too many players forward you’re in trouble. I think disregarding centre bounces where 666 applies we may see centre congestion as teams press to the centre rather than forward. Trying to defend this will be a bigger issue than 666 for clubs.
Centre clearance stats from prior years won’t hold true as defensively minded sides who where prepared to lose centre contests will now go all out to win the contest.

 

[Kappa]

Very good points you’ve made here. Teams will not be able to have complete forward presses for if you score a point, you will regularly be caught with 80% of your players behind the ball when the opposing side kicks in quickly. The press will mostly now be a centre press. Just contain the ball in your forward half. Not necessarily forward 50. If you commit too many players forward you’re in trouble. I think disregarding centre bounces where 666 applies we may see centre congestion as teams press to the centre rather than forward. Trying to defend this will be a bigger issue than 666 for clubs.
Centre clearance stats from prior years won’t hold true as defensively minded sides who where prepared to lose centre contests will now go all out to win the contest.

The reason why the forward press worked is the ground is so narrow in the forward 50 it's easy to strangle teams and they won't have the room to run and carry through your zone. That all changes if you move the press back another 30-40 metres when the wings start to get really wide and gaps start to appear, then you find zones will start to crumble and goals will very easily leak out the back.

 

[sregit]

The reason why the forward press worked is the ground is so narrow in the forward 50 it's easy to strangle teams and they won't have the room to run and carry through your zone. That all changes if you move the press back another 30-40 metres when the wings start to get really wide and gaps start to appear, then you find zones will start to crumble and goals will very easily leak out the back.

You may be right that a press is harder to do in the centre, however, to press too far forward could be suicide. It will be interesting to see what tactics teams come up with. It’s a copycat competition thus it won’t be long before most sides are using the same tactics.

 

[loki04]

The reason why the forward press worked is the ground is so narrow in the forward 50 it's easy to strangle teams and they won't have the room to run and carry through your zone. That all changes if you move the press back another 30-40 metres when the wings start to get really wide and gaps start to appear, then you find zones will start to crumble and goals will very easily leak out the back.

you are forgetting Hawthorns hugely successful "rolling zone" which zoned the center of the ground and moved back or forwards as needed.

 

[jackcass]

AFL 2019: Champion Data’s 2019 AFL Prospectus on how 6-6-6 starting positions will impact Richmond most of all


https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...ZZZnhyFA_ElZvCRtK_6WgFlDASPwaXDfwN87QurmvzTp4



TEAM USAGE OF 6-6-6 STARTING POSITIONS IN 2018
Brisbane Lions - 67.9% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Collingwood - 64.9% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Gold Coast Suns - 64.9% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Western Bulldogs - 64.8% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Essendon - 60.5% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Geelong Cats - 53.7% [Most common: 6-6-6]
West Coast Eagles - 53.2% [Most common: 6-6-6]
St Kilda - 48.7% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Carlton - 43.9% [Most common: 6-6-6]
Hawthorn - 43.9% [Most common: 6-6-6]
GWS Giants - 36.4% [Most common: 7-6-5]
Sydney Swans - 35.5% [Most common: 7-6-5]
Port Adelaide - 30.8% [Most common: 7-6-5]
Fremantle - 25.8% [Most common: 7-6-5]
Melbourne - 24.3% [Most common: 7-6-5]
North Melbourne - 10.6% [Most common: 7-6-5]
Adelaide Crows - 4.4% [Most common: 7-6-5]
Richmond - 3.4% [Most common: 7-6-5]

Wouldn't be reading too much into any of that. Tigers back 6 as good as any in the league 1v1, Rance arguably their weakest link in that regard (see what DeGoey did to him in the PF). The +1 was more about setting up their swarming slingshot into offence rather than any defensive reliance upon it.

 

[HeathySure]

i can absolutely see coaches of the worse sides putting in players in the centre to kill the ball after a goal rather than clearance players, I wouldnt be surprised if they even gave away free kicks in tight games so that they can get the defence back down to flood. Some coach will work this out and then they will all copy. . i can see a little more scoring but not as much as they hoped

 

[soreplums]

Anyone else think having 12 players inside 50m crowds the forward line and cancels out the centre clearance advantage? What’s stopping a wingman to start on the defensive point and charge back into defence to be the extra? 13 inside 50m by the time the ball is kicked.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Anyone else think having 12 players inside 50m crowds the forward line and cancels out the centre clearance advantage? What’s stopping a wingman to start on the defensive point and charge back into defence to be the extra? 13 inside 50m by the time the ball is kicked.

My understanding is that the wingers must be on the wing at the start. They cant start forward or behind the centre square lines that run across the ground.

(whether the paint will be drawn all the way to the boundary is another question or do the boundary umpmires have to guess Additionally this creates a centre bounce tactiic where before the bounce you could corral your opponent into a corner hes not allowed to step over, to try and draw a free kick from them stepping over the line before play starts, like a Sydney to Hobart boat jumping the gun at the start line)

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think it will help Collingwood to be honest. Cox will be less easily double teamed, de Goey will get more one on ones, and Stevos pace will be a massive asset)

 

[soreplums]

My understanding is that the wingers must be on the wing at the start. They cant start forward or behind the centre square lines that run across the ground.

(whether the paint will be drawn all the way to the boundary is another question or do the boundary umpmires have to guess Additionally this creates a centre bounce tactiic where before the bounce you could corral your opponent into a corner hes not allowed to step over, to try and draw a free kick from them stepping over the line before play starts, like a Sydney to Hobart boat jumping the gun at the start line)

Didn’t know that new lines across the centre are going to be painted. Thought that they could start anywhere along the side of the square- meaning that they could start right next to the boundary umpire on the defensive side.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Didn’t know that new lines across the centre are going to be painted. Thought that they could start anywhere along the side of the square- meaning that they could start right next to the boundary umpire on the defensive side.

Its "my understanding" .

Could be wrong and no idea iif its true if the lines are going to be actually painted or just assumed to be there.

They can stand next to the boundary umpire on the side of the square but not forward of it (eg next to the CHF at the 50 metre line). I thin we are talking the same thing.

 

[jmac70]

I tried to read The Age article that explained the new rules, but fell asleep half way through

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Anyone else think having 12 players inside 50m crowds the forward line and cancels out the centre clearance advantage? What’s stopping a wingman to start on the defensive point and charge back into defence to be the extra? 13 inside 50m by the time the ball is kicked.

Oh and another potential reply to your theory.

Given the wingers are the only players allowed to stand next to the square under the new rules, (be that the just the sides or all of it, unsure of that). .......either way.....

Its reasonabe to assume coaches will generally instruct the to run INTO the centre contest given they are the closest by a fair distance under the new rules, and not run AWAY from ithe contest .

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Oh and another potential reply to your theory.

Given the wingers are the only players allowed to stand next to the square under the new rules, (be that the just the sides or all of it, unsure of that). .......either way.....

Its reasonabe to assume coaches will generally instruct the to run INTO the centre contest given they are the closest by a fair distance under the new rules, and not run AWAY from ithe contest .

If so? Then that serves the best runners you’d think?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

If so? Then that serves the best runners you’d think?

Wingers will need ti be great runners (of the gut and sprint variety) and/or slippery enough to get loose from their opponents. . Either way we should be well stocked for players of that ilk. Perhaps the Tom Mitchell type is less of an asset than in the past (maybe not ag ood example since hes out with a broken leg)

Out Greg Williams type
In Robbie Flower. type

Stevo might be the ideal winger for Collingwood.

I have put an intensive five minutes of thought into this so it cant be wrong.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Wingers will need ti be great runners (of the gut and sprint variety) and/or slippery enough to get loose from their opponents. . Either way we should be well stocked for players of that ilk. Perhaps the Tom Mitchell type is less of an asset than in the past (maybe not ag ood example since hes out with a broken leg)

Out Greg Williams type
In Robbie Flower. type

Stevo might be the ideal winger for Collingwood.

I have put an intensive five minutes of thought into this so it cant be wrong.

Jaiyden on your criteria sure.
I was thinking how good Steele would be.
Then Treloar, that type.

We have quite a few more, keep running them through.