Next years bolter

[SirJimi05]

And just because you do not know much about a player doesn't mean he is not important to our structure or gameplan. Let me give you an example. I don't watch much of Essendon. Maybe 5 games throughout the year. Really, I thought Jobe Watson was slow, couldn't kick and was a candidate for delisting ... now he's your captain.

Just about the dumbest comparison i've heard. If you watched Watson play 5 times this season and you came to the conclusion that he is slow, useless and should be delisted, you should simply refrain from watching football again because you are quite clueless about the game of aussie rules football.

This is completely different to me saying that injuries to Ellis, Ladson, Guerra and Gillham are not going to make or break your season.

 

[Rhayader]

Just about the dumbest comparison i've heard. If you watched Watson play 5 times this season and you came to the conclusion that he is slow, useless and should be delisted, you should simply refrain from watching football again because you are quite clueless about the game of aussie rules football.

This is completely different to me saying that injuries to Ellis, Ladson, Guerra and Gillham are not going to make or break your season.

Wrong. It's exactly the same. Saying that those injuries - all key backmen who missed lots of games (on top of Croad) - aren't going to make or break a season is just plain wrong, as I explained previously. If you spent any serious time watching Hawthorn play (without your red/black blinkers on) in the past few years you'd understand this.

And as for watching football. I quite enjoy the game, but I don't spend much time watching Essendon. Am I right about Watson? Who knows, it's the opinion of someone who isn't prepared to spend a great deal of my spare time finding out. And as he's now your captain, I'm probably not right (as I said earlier, the club should know). Happy to be wrong. Watson seems like a good bloke and I hope he goes well. I think it's better for the sport when other clubs (esp those old Melbourne clubs) are strong and competitive (even the ones I don't like)...

But are you right about our injuries not being the cause of our bad 2009? Again, who knows? What I am saying is that I watched every Hawks game this year and last year (and so on), and I'm saying it is MY opinion that they did. So spare me your Bay 13 childishness and let's have an adult conversation about football if we can, please....


Cheers

Paul D.

 

[AG]

Maybe the premiership was the anomaly for Hawthorn, as opposed to last year. They won it before they were expected to, so maybe they will just grow like a normal young football side is meant to and struggle slightly over the next few years until they mature. No doubting they have great players but if they have a similar season to last year or just scrape into the finals I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[SirJimi05]

Which 5 games did you watch?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Think it's safe to see you had a dream run in 2008 and an ok run in 2009...

Most injuries does not equal worst injury run. Other teams fared worse and still managed to play good footy.

Luke Hodge
Grant Birchall
Jarryd Roughead
Jordan Lewis
Lance Franklin
Michael Osbourne
Sam Mitchell
Simon Taylor
Brad Sewell
Brent Guerra
Cambell Brown
Chance Bateman
Cyril Rioli

Above is the core of your team and they all had a very good run injury wise, playing between 18-22 games. Most teams would take that if offered it at the start of the season.

The only significant injuries you had for ther year were to the following players:

Ladson
Croad
Ellis
Gillham
Young

Croad is gone for 2010 so won't make a difference and the other 4 aren't really going to make or break a season.

The biggest myth in football today was that the Hawks were devestated by injuries in 2009. People were just expecting another dream run this is all.

Give it up.

Any number of fools that follow football know that injuries to role players can hinder a gameplan just as easily as the loss of an A-grade player.
Take away Young for example and who delivers long to our fowards, especially when Hodge and others are filling gaps in defence for Ladson and Gilham?

Or are you suggesting that all those players you've listed simply didn't perform to 2008 standards? No shit!

And what's the reasons behind it? I guess next you'll just say they weren't trying. Hangover. whatever.

Fact is that a number of players struggled through the preseason and season proper, and not just those who missed games.
This is a major reason why so many people think Hawthorn will push back into the top 4 in 2010, because we have a number of extremely talented players who are bound to have improved seasons in 2010 due to the fact that they are weeks ahead of where they were this time last year.

 

[Rhayader]

Which 5 games did you watch?

hmmm, stretching my memory now... both Hawks games obviously. Um, definitely Anzac Day (cracker of a game)... one other closeish one where the Bombers won (was pretty close to Anzac Day)... Can't really remember other than that. I half watched a couple while at work on a Sunday throughout the year too I reckon...

To be honest I did notice a difference with Jobe this year, even over those few games. I don't think I was the only one with a few doubts re: speed and kicking last year. I vaguely recall he himself speaking to the press about it (?). But he did seem to get a lot of hard ball this year out of the middle (crucial with Hille gone and Ryder was doing a pretty decent but still makeshift job in the ruck)

Few guys stood out to me this year from you blokes... Zaharakis (sp?), Hurley (obviously because he towelled us up in Rd 22), Monfries, Davey is a gun (I'm from the NT so biased, but you missed him this year), Jetta and Houli look good prospects too...

Cheers

Paul D.

 

[SirJimi05]

Give it up.

Any number of fools that follow football know that injuries to role players can hinder a gameplan just as easily as the loss of an A-grade player.
Take away Young for example and who delivers long to our fowards, especially when Hodge and others are filling gaps in defence for Ladson and Gilham?

Or are you suggesting that all those players you've listed simply didn't perform to 2008 standards? No shit!

And what's the reasons behind it? I guess next you'll just say they weren't trying. Hangover. whatever.

Of course those losses would have hindered your gameplan. I haven't stated otherwise.

I'm saying your injuries weren't half as bad as you all make out.

 

[SirJimi05]

hmmm, stretching my memory now... both Hawks games obviously. Um, definitely Anzac Day (cracker of a game)... one other closeish one where the Bombers won (was pretty close to Anzac Day)... Can't really remember other than that. I half watched a couple while at work on a Sunday throughout the year too I reckon...

To be honest I did notice a difference with Jobe this year, even over those few games. I don't think I was the only one with a few doubts re: speed and kicking last year. I vaguely recall he himself speaking to the press about it (?). But he did seem to get a lot of hard ball this year out of the middle (crucial with Hille gone and Ryder was doing a pretty decent but still makeshift job in the ruck)

Few guys stood out to me this year from you blokes... Zaharakis (sp?), Hurley (obviously because he towelled us up in Rd 22), Monfries, Davey is a gun (I'm from the NT so biased, but you missed him this year), Jetta and Houli look good prospects too...

Cheers

Paul D.

Watson has been a gun for a good 2-3 years, the only difference is his kicking has slowly evolved and is now quite efficient.

Even last season he and Hille were ranked as the number 1 ruck/mid combination in the competition.

He is in the best 3 inside midfielders in the game today.

Hope you are right about Jetta. He has shown very little up until this stage and will be delisted if he doesn't perform next season.

Davey was coming off a knee so can be forgiven for being up and down.

Agree re Houli, he just needs to find his niche.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Of course those losses would have hindered your gameplan. I haven't stated otherwise.

I'm saying your injuries weren't half as bad as you all make out.

And in turn we're saying 'how the hell would you know?'
Because you read through the 'games played' column at the end of the year?
Because you looked at who was out on the park when Essendon played us?

Everyone knows that Hawthorn had a poor 2009, but if you're going to state that the injuries were overplayed, or as you put it a 'myth' you're full of it.

 

[Rhayader]

Watson has been a gun for a good 2-3 years, the only difference is his kicking has slowly evolved and is now quite efficient.

Even last season he and Hille were ranked as the number 1 ruck/mid combination in the competition.

He is in the best 3 inside midfielders in the game today.

Hope you are right about Jetta. He has shown very little up until this stage and will be delisted if he doesn't perform next season.

Davey was coming off a knee so can be forgiven for being up and down.

Agree re Houli, he just needs to find his niche.

On Jobe, fair point, I'll keep a closer eye on him next year... and being on the slow side ain't that big a deal. Sam Mitchell's not exactly The Flash

Jetta... yeah he doesn't strike me as a guy who's gonna dominate all game, but if he can do enough good stuff each week in a Davis/Rioli style, he'll should win you games...

Cheers

Paul D.

 

[SirJimi05]

Because you read through the 'games played' column at the end of the year?

As opposed to every Hawk fan pointing to the total games missed column and stating that this proves that the Hawks had the worst run with injuries?

Because you looked at who was out on the park when Essendon played us?

Hawthorn were basically at full strength when they played Essendon, with the exception of a few players.

Everyone knows that Hawthorn had a poor 2009, but if you're going to state that the injuries were overplayed, or as you put it a 'myth' you're full of it.

Hawthorn's injuries were massively overplayed in 2009.

 

[SirJimi05]

On Jobe, fair point, I'll keep a closer eye on him next year... and being on the slow side ain't that big a deal. Sam Mitchell's not exactly The Flash

Jetta... yeah he doesn't strike me as a guy who's gonna dominate all game, but if he can do enough good stuff each week in a Davis/Rioli style, he'll should win you games...

Cheers

Paul D.

Sam Mitchell is one of the 3 players i was refering to.

TBH I don't rate Jetta at all but by all reports he is actually having a decent crack for next season and has been training really strongly. Maybe he has realised that his career is at the crossroads and needs to pull his finger out.

 

[Swansujelly]

Or maybe because they are a good football team. Past 3 years show the are building a good side.
Bolters are sides not expected to do well

and that's why we should be considered as bolters. On the Ladder predictions thread, only a few brave souls had us in the 8. 10-14th was the general consensus. We will not be that bad and anywhere up to 4-5th is realistic (i'm ducking for cover as i type). Sleep on us at your peril, 2003 anyone?

 

[Zvim]

....and most importantly: will he run through the depth/deadwood of your list with a hot knife. Harris & Gibson already gone, surely more to go over the next few years and rebuild a bit?

Harris will be a good servant for GC and Gibson will be a good player for the Hawks. They aren't exactly deadwood. We struggled to find 6 spots on the list this year, largely because we turned over 30 players over 2006, 2007 and 2008 and most of the players from that period have shown a lot of promise and worthy of being retained.

We still have players we will turn over in the years to come, probably Corey Jones, maybe Aaron Edwards, their fate depends on how quickly Black, Kennedy and others develop and the impact they have in 2010. I think any senior player that struggles to get games in 2010 will be on the chopping block. Maybe the odd kid who doesn't come on well.

White was unfortunate this year not to get elevated, just no room. Too many kids that show a lot of promise, it is a good problem to have.

 

[SirJimi05]

We still have players we will turn over in the years to come, probably Corey Jones, maybe Aaron Edwards, their fate depends on how quickly Black, Kennedy and others develop and the impact they have in 2010. I think any senior player that struggles to get games in 2010 will be on the chopping block. Maybe the odd kid who doesn't come on well.

Football is a funny game. A few years ago it looked like Jones was destined to take the next step and become an extremely good footballer. Two years on he is fighting for his career.

As you said though, it's a good problem to have when so many youngsters come on well and make it harder for the older heads to keep their spots.

 

[big_dunk]

Sorry if this is off topic, but I got the impression that it was a combination of
- Injuries during preseason
- Injuries during the season
- Lack of same intensity and drive

I always thought it was mainly their lack of preseason that was their concern (due to injuries).

It will be interesting where the Brisbane Lions fit into the 8 or outside. I think they exceeded expectations in 09.

 

[tribey]

Appreciate the "can't name your own side" stip, but I'm going for it because let's face it, there's no positive talk about Port Adelaide these days:

1. THE DEFENCE: Troy Chaplin, Alipate Carlile and Jacob Surjan are three of the hottest young defenders in the comp. Combined with the imminent arrival of Jackson Trengove, the Port back six shows an embarrassment of riches in the key position department, and a small/medium department department led by a small coming off his breakout year supported by a stable of smalls led by future stars the likes of Hamish Hartlett, Andrew Moore and Jasper McMillan-Pittard. So much to like.

2. THE RUCK DEPARTMENT: The retirement of Brendon Lade is a kick in the spuds, we all know that. But the reality is, big Brendon had been a shadow of his All-Australian days for awhile, finding himself dropped for form as long ago as mid-08' given the physical wall he hit off the back of career-threatening injuries in the early noughties. His direct replacement, Matthew Lobbe, is a raw first-rounder from the '07 draft who took a long time to come on, only proving himself a capable SANFL ruckman as recently as the second-half of the '09 season. But he's athletic, with a huge leap and a competitive second-effort not unlike Ben Hudson. Between him and Dean Brogan expect a lot of agro and srs bzns both in the air and at ground level.

3. THE BRAINSTRUST: Much has been made of the talent drain both in the box and on the field since 2004, but in the 2009/10 offseason the coaches box made significant gains for the first time since it boasted a lineup including Alistair Clarkson, Dean Bailey, Phil Walsh and David Pittman. With the addition of Dean Laidley and Garry Hocking, the Port brainstrust boasts experienced, respected talent that hasn't plied its trade solely under Mark Williams. Whether it's merely a case of reducing Choco's workload or utilising the obvious experience and personality traits they possess, the planning, training and matchday skills available to the chosen 22 on the day are the best they've been since the club reached the pinnacle 5 years ago.

4. THE GREAT WHITE HOPE: In John Butcher the club has its best serious key forward prospect since Warren Tredrea was a pup. No longer will the selection committee have to tailor selection night and matchday tactics to the likes of Justin Westhoff and the newly acquired Jay Schulz as a matter of necessity. In Butcher the club knows they have a potential CHF champion in their clutches, who can learn and develop while they extract every last drop of effort and talent out of the incumbent superstar, Tredrea. Free to pinpoint Warren, easily the most accomplished established Port key forward, without fear or favour, we may well see more of his performances against Melbourne, Hawthorn, Adelaide and Richmond and less of the decoy performances shown when Westhoff was serving his default key forward apprenticeship out of necessity.

5. INJURY/LADY LUCK: Salopek. Motlop. Cornes. Westhoff. Hartlett. Rodan has already fallen in '10 (LARS reconstruction aside), but all five were first-18 players cruelled by long-term injury that hindered their progress in 2009. With a bit of luck, an injury-free 2010 will see Port Adelaide's stocks rise immeasurably given their skillsets, potential and proven ability. Yes, all 16 clubs can claim players who were boned by the fate of medium to long-term injury, but in these five (Salopek, Cornes and Motlop especially) we have a handful of players who will provide something special to the given weekly 22 where they were physically unable to in the previous year.

 

[AG]

Mark Williams should be gone though. Club needs a fresh feel to it.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Sorry if this is off topic, but I got the impression that it was a combination of
- Injuries during preseason
- Injuries during the season
- Lack of same intensity and drive

I always thought it was mainly their lack of preseason that was their concern (due to injuries).

Correct. And without going into detail, it's all of the above.

This is common knowledge unless you follow Essendon of course, because their injuries were just as bad as ours. In fact Hawthorns injury concerns were largely a 'myth'.

 

[SirJimi05]

Correct. And without going into detail, it's all of the above.

This is common knowledge unless you follow Essendon of course, because their injuries were just as bad as ours. In fact Hawthorns injury concerns were largely a 'myth'.

Omg can you Hawks supporters please get over your obsession with Essendon.

You guys simply need to realise that it is pretty rare for teams to have such an amazing run with injuires like the Hawks did in 2008. It aint gonna happen every year.

This year the Hawks had injury concerns like many other teams. They didn't fare much worse than any of them.

So yes, when people go an about the Hawks being totally ravaged by injures to such an extreme, it is a myth.

 

[SirJimi05]

Correct. And without going into detail, it's all of the above.

This is common knowledge unless you follow Essendon of course, because their injuries were just as bad as ours. In fact Hawthorns injury concerns were largely a 'myth'.

Also, i must say that i find your sig extremely amusing given the fact that on many occasions you have stated that the Donners is clueless and doesn't have any idea what he is on about.

I guess that all changed as soon as he said something that you liked?

 

[SirJimi05]

Very true AG! Also, we are talking about bolters/premiership challengers here. When i hear the names Moore, McMillian-Pillard, Lobbe & Butcher the last thing that comes to my mind is premiership bolter.

 

[Zvim]

Football is a funny game. A few years ago it looked like Jones was destined to take the next step and become an extremely good footballer. Two years on he is fighting for his career.

As you said though, it's a good problem to have when so many youngsters come on well and make it harder for the older heads to keep their spots.

Reality is not all youngsters will make it, even those that show promise, those starved of opportunity caused by others performing will become vulnerable. We will make the most of our good fortune if we trade off players when they have value, like Gibson to the Hawks. He effectively got us Black and Kennedy. Realistically, we should probably let one of our ruckmen go at the end of 2010.

I think a lot of our forwards have struggled largely due to the decline of our midfield. The club focused on KPPs before running players and we had poor depth there this year and couldn't afford any injuries to required mids, unfortunately, many got hurt in 09 and we had a makeshift midfield for much of the year, that doesn't really help the forwards when they got crucified by B-grade supply.

I don't feel sorry for Jones though because he has been given ample opportunity to perform and there is too much variance between his good footy and his bad footy, even when we had a good midfield. I think he would be a good X-factor player in a team with a good established midfield and strong key forwards who don't really have someone like that. As a mid sized forward he is capable of kicking big bags of goals when the supply is good and the forward line is open. But, I wouldn't rely on him performing in any given week.

We have had too many senior players who were very inconsistent with their efforts, I felt it was largely to do with being good ordinary players and they don't have as much talent to fall back on so when the work rate drops off their performance dives. But, year by year we have fewer of them around. Most of our consistent performers were the newer recruits.

 

[The Filth Wizard]

I'm on the Eagles. By far the best quality young side in the league.

I also think my team will scrape into the 8 and will be a constant in this thread next year.

 

[Quinz]

I think North are a chance to jump up the ladder, I've been impressed by several of their younger players and I think with a new coach they could surprise a few next season. Did very well in the draft too.

The other team that could is Sydney, while it seemed that they would finally be on the slide and have to bottom out they picked up some good players in the draft and always seem to be competitive. Wouldn't surprise me if they made the eight.