Non Lions Discussion 2024

[Section 5]

Was a draw a good or bad outcome for us? Would a Freo loss have been better?

Possibly bad, but it was great to see that the Pies not winning another close game.
Draws v Bombers & Dockers. Wins: Crows 4, Blues 6, Hawks 5.

 

[rye]

I’m glad this hasn’t been forgotten - I don’t recall the media uproar when it happened to us.

And if I recall correctly, by doing so, Hugh was actually helping get the ball back faster - he was on the ground on the wrong side of the umpire, or something.

I’m quite surprised at how salty McRae is - makes me wonder whether he genuinely doesn’t know the rule?

think hes just preaching to the choir

 

[mpal6]

I’m glad this hasn’t been forgotten - I don’t recall the media uproar when it happened to us.

And if I recall correctly, by doing so, Hugh was actually helping get the ball back faster - he was on the ground on the wrong side of the umpire, or something.

I’m quite surprised at how salty McRae is - makes me wonder whether he genuinely doesn’t know the rule?

There'll be one day in future when Collingwood coach, players, club and supporters as a whole will be able to pull their head out of their asses and realize there are games being played other than their own.

 

[mpal6]

Was a draw a good or bad outcome for us? Would a Freo loss have been better?

Freo loss would've been ideal. Still, Pies taking 2 points off them is an ok result as it puts Freo in direct competition with us from percentage point of view. I like the fact that it's Essendon, Fremantle who are in the percentage competition with us as their form can be flaky and give us a chance later in the season.

 

[Nunez]

Was a draw a good or bad outcome for us? Would a Freo loss have been better?

Other results don't matter when you're about to go undefeated for the rest of the year.

 

[Dalions]

I say, suck it Collingwood!
It’s about time a decision worked against them.

 

[JasRulz63]

I'm glad some of the tactics Collingwood use to slow down the game at the end are getting flagged by umpires. They got picked up a couple of times for holding the ball too long instead of giving it back, and were warned once and then punished for not giving the ball back to umpires.

 

[FromOldFitzroy]

From McRae’s presser -“… We come over here a long way.”
Er Craig, ‘interstate’ teams do it every second week, all year.
Have Collingwood ever played in Tasmania?

 

[RU_]

I feel like the ladder is shaping well for us.

Beat Hawthorn and we are back in the pack of 6-12

 

[Elixuh]

Every time I look at Essendon’s opponent they’re playing spud teams. Richmond this week. Gws really their only scalp.

If they make finals I can see them being decimated by a good side.

 

[Morbidly_Obese]

 

[Section 5]

Regarding the free "not handing the ball directly back to umpire".
I usually can find the rule when we get these sorts of unusual free kicks.

However, on this occasion i can't find anything in the 2024 Laws of Australian Football.
There are 11 pages just on free kicks and i can't find anything that actually states you have to hand the ball back to an umpire at a stoppage. It is common sense to do so but not mentioned specifically that i can find.
I also skipped through the other 60 pages and read anything remotely connected and could not see anything.
Unfortunately, there is a paragraph in the Laws of Australian Football that mentions anything in the AFL Rules (195 pages) and Regulations (137 pages) can override the Laws and i was not going to wade through those.

It could come under wasting time but that is a stretch, and the umpire did not state that as the reason.
It could also come under the bolded below, but it would also be a stretch and the umpire did not mention any of those.

The only rule that specifically states a free if a player "hands the football to another Player" is in a different context.
As in you hand it to another player instead of a handball or kick during the course of the game.
Below the 2 rules that are the closest to what the umpire decided was a free kick.

I think the umpires and the AFL should tell the coaches and players which rule was applied to this type of free seeing it has been implemented a few times this year.

The only thing i can see remotely connected by not handing the ball back directly to the umpire it may fall under
Rule 18.8 (f). By not handing the ball back directly you could say it "affects, interferes with or prevents an Umpire from performing their duties"

18.8 UMPIRES
18.8.1 Spirit and Intention Umpires shall be protected from unreasonable contact and behaviour whilst performing their duties and their decisions should be respected and followed by Players and Officials.
18.8.2 Free Kicks - Umpires
A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player or Official who:
(a) uses abusive, insulting, threatening or obscene language towards an Umpire;
(b) behaves in an abusive, insulting, threatening or obscene manner towards an Umpire;
(c) intentionally, unreasonably or carelessly makes contact with an Umpire;
(d) disputes a decision of an Umpire;
(e) fails to follow the instruction of an Umpire; or
(f) intentionally or carelessly engages in conduct which affects, interferes with or prevents an Umpire from performing their duties
18.13 OTHER
A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player who:
(a) Throws the football;
(b) hands the football to another Player;
(c) whilst in possession of the football, does not bounce or touch the football on the ground at least once every 15 metres, irrespective of whether such Player is running in a straight line or otherwise. For the purposes of this Law, a Player shall be deemed to be in possession of the football during the period when the Player kicks or handballs the football to themself and regains possession without the football touching the ground;
(d) engages in Time Wasting;
(e) makes unreasonable or unnecessary contact with an injured opposition Player;
(f) intentionally lifts a Player from the same Team to interfere with play;
(g) engages in misconduct;
(h) uses abusive, insulting, threatening or obscene language; or
(i) uses an obscene gesture

 

[Dalions]

Regarding the free "not handing the ball directly back to umpire".
I usually can find the rule when we get these sorts of unusual free kicks.

However, on this occasion i can't find anything in the 2024 Laws of Australian Football.
There are 11 pages just on free kicks and i can't find anything that actually states you have to hand the ball back to an umpire at a stoppage. It is common sense to do so but not mentioned specifically that i can find.
I also skipped through the other 60 pages and read anything remotely connected and could not see anything.
Unfortunately, there is a paragraph in the Laws of Australian Football that mentions anything in the AFL Rules (195 pages) and Regulations (137 pages) can override the Laws and i was not going to wade through those.

It could come under wasting time but that is a stretch, and the umpire did not state that as the reason.
It could also come under the bolded below, but it would also be a stretch and the umpire did not mention any of those.

The only rule that specifically states a free if a player "hands the football to another Player" is in a different context.
As in you hand it to another player instead of a handball or kick during the course of the game.
Below the 2 rules that are the closest to what the umpire decided was a free kick.

I think the umpires and the AFL should tell the coaches and players which rule was applied to this type of free seeing it has been implemented a few times this year.

The only thing i can see remotely connected by not handing the ball back directly to the umpire it may fall under
Rule 18.8 (f). By not handing the ball back directly you could say it "affects, interferes with or prevents an Umpire from performing their duties"

18.8 UMPIRES
18.8.1 Spirit and Intention Umpires shall be protected from unreasonable contact and behaviour whilst performing their duties and their decisions should be respected and followed by Players and Officials.
18.8.2 Free Kicks - Umpires
A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player or Official who:
(a) uses abusive, insulting, threatening or obscene language towards an Umpire;
(b) behaves in an abusive, insulting, threatening or obscene manner towards an Umpire;
(c) intentionally, unreasonably or carelessly makes contact with an Umpire;
(d) disputes a decision of an Umpire;
(e) fails to follow the instruction of an Umpire; or
(f) intentionally or carelessly engages in conduct which affects, interferes with or prevents an Umpire from performing their duties
18.13 OTHER
A field Umpire shall award a Free Kick against a Player who:
(a) Throws the football;
(b) hands the football to another Player;
(c) whilst in possession of the football, does not bounce or touch the football on the ground at least once every 15 metres, irrespective of whether such Player is running in a straight line or otherwise. For the purposes of this Law, a Player shall be deemed to be in possession of the football during the period when the Player kicks or handballs the football to themself and regains possession without the football touching the ground;
(d) engages in Time Wasting;
(e) makes unreasonable or unnecessary contact with an injured opposition Player;
(f) intentionally lifts a Player from the same Team to interfere with play;
(g) engages in misconduct;
(h) uses abusive, insulting, threatening or obscene language; or
(i) uses an obscene gesture

It’s in there somewhere.

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

It’s way over the top if they say that’s time wasting.
What 1 second two maybe
How about the umpires concentrate on things like throws and how many times did we see players run more than 15 in this game
I’m sure there were two
But that rule was last week
My mistake

But totally delicious it happened to Collingwood

 

[Dalions]

It’s way over the top if they say that’s time wasting.
What 1 second two maybe
How about the umpires concentrate on things like throws and how many times did we see players run more than 15 in this game
I’m sure there were two
But that rule was last week
My mistake

But totally delicious it happened to Collingwood

The look on Nick Daicos’s face as soon as he got the ball. Priceless!
He knew and all of the rest of the Collingwood players knew as well.

 

[paulige]

It’s absolutely correct.

I don’t think anyone truly believes it was intentional time wasting, or that it was anything other than an honest mistake in handing the ball to a teammate rather than an umpire.

But even honest mistakes have consequences.

If anything, it may remind those at Collingwood that they are no better than us mere mortals.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

There'll be one day in future when Collingwood coach, players, club and supporters as a whole will be able to pull their head out of their asses and realize there are games being played other than their own.

Yeah, when hell freezes over!

 

[paulige]

It’s way over the top if they say that’s time wasting.
What 1 second two maybe
How about the umpires concentrate on things like throws and how many times did we see players run more than 15 in this game
I’m sure there were two
But that rule was last week
My mistake

But totally delicious it happened to Collingwood

It needs to be - the alternative is we introduce another grey area for the umpires to impossibly adjudicate.

One can imagine the amount of stuffing around there would be if this was opened up!

It’s also worth noting that it’s a very obvious free kick from an umpires perspective - they approach 100’s, 1000’s of ball-ups over time, where there is a clearly defined, consistent routine - they receive the ball directly from whichever player has it.

It would be exceptionally obvious on any occasion that this routine is broken.

 

[Darren Downunder]

It needs to be - the alternative is we introduce another grey area for the umpires to impossibly adjudicate.

One can imagine the amount of stuffing around there would be if this was opened up!

It’s also worth noting that it’s a very obvious free kick from an umpires perspective - they approach 100’s, 1000’s of ball-ups over time, where there is a clearly defined, consistent routine - they receive the ball directly from whichever player has it.

It would be exceptionally obvious on any occasion that this routine is broken.

Yup! This is a very good point. I was undecided on this issue before I read your post, but now I am convinced. Keep it simple and consistent! Here here!

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Was tuning into the West Coast reserves vs Claremont game while waiting for the Lions VFL game to start, and they had an advertising board for Noosa holiday accommodation. I thought that was a bit odd, don't they have beaches in WA?

 

[paulige]

Yup! This is a very good point. I was undecided on this issue before I read your post, but now I am convinced. Keep it simple and consistent! Here here!

I am just glad to be of service!

 

[KissKiss]

Its one of those frees where on its own its not time wasting. But if you don't enforce it, it becomes such an easy way to time waste by fluffing around giving the ball to the wrong players and acting confused. So its one of those times its easy for them to be consistently harsh on the few times it happens. As said its a simple thing that the players weren't even confused they straight away knew it was a mistake

 

[briztoon]

Was tuning into the West Coast reserves vs Claremont game while waiting for the Lions VFL game to start, and they had an advertising board for Noosa holiday accommodation. I thought that was a bit odd, don't they have beaches in WA?

They also have lots of great white sharks.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Ben Long

22

Ben Long

Age

26

Ht

186cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

10.9

3star

K

6.2

2star

HB

4.7

3star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.7

4star

MG

166.8

3star

D

12.8

3star

K

6.7

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

3.3

3star

T

2.3

3star

MG

129.0

2star

D

13.4

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

3.2

5star

MG

223.0

4star

on cue reverting to being rubbish again this afternoon.

 

[lionshine]

Ben Long on cue reverting to being rubbish again this afternoon.

He has been pretty damn good to be honest.