Summer Olympic Sports in between Olympics thread.

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Xtreme said:
Not such a feel good story any more. Should not have let the greed to improve consume him.
Click to expand...
nothing about his progression screams drug user.
he improved his PB by 1.4 seconds in the last 7 years to a very good but not exactly stellar 1:44.0…all done in reasonably small, easily explainable increments.

also, my understanding is that EPO clears in less than 48 hours so why not just dodge the test and get a whereabouts failure instead?

I’m not saying he’s clean but it does seem a little odd.
 
Sad news but no need to speculate until the B sample gets tested in a few weeks time.

Awkward for him though being a contender for 'Young Australian of the Year' award in a few days.

In some good news young sprinter Torrie Lewis (who just tured 18 a few days ago) who had injury worries last year and couldn't compete in World Juniors (where she was a prospective medal winner) or other overseas competitions returned to the track today in Brisbane.

Besides running a decent 11.4 into a headwind for the 100 she smashed out a 23.06 200m PB which not even the likes of Cathy Freeman could do at that age.
 
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He's gone. EPO can't contaminate supplements, you need an injection for it to enter the blood stream and be picked up. It was invented / manufactured for people who had anemia, ie the body doesn't produce enough red blood cells.

Since its invention they have developed an epo cream, but it doesn't have the same effect as an injection of the substance and sometime the cream is applied to wounds to help with blood flow to regenerate skin growth and I've seen it mixed in with moisturiser for good looking skin.

B sample will be the same unless there has been a complete stuff up in the handling and storage of his sample. He then gets off on a technicality, not a clearance that the substance wasn't in his system.

Doesn't matter if he is a good guy from a poor country, temptation of glory and $$$ gets to just about everyone.

These graphs below from 2009 by Ross Tucker on his sports scientists website, was the turning point for me, when I read it a few weeks after he published it.

EPO tests come in, in 2000 for the Sydney Olympics and surprise, surprise both graphs go the opposite way compared to the previous decade.

Thats when it dawned on me that the Kenyans and Ethiopians who get to Europe and run the IAAF athletics meets they have access to the stuff and their agents control their $$$ so they get on the gear. I was sad about it for a few weeks, but then reality hit home and I figured just about 100% of world class athletes are on stuff.


EPO introduction and how long distance running times improved at the same time.

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/08/performance-analysis-weapon-against.html

Men's distance running

Next, look at the best time and average of the best 20 times for the men's 5,000m and 10,000m events:

​
I don't think I have to point out the striking change in performance, particularly in the 5,000m event, after the commercial introduction of EPO in about 1990. I'm particularly interested in how the average of the top 20 times each year changes, because the red line, which represents the best performance, and thus only one athlete, might be misleading. But the blue line, that average, very definitely heads downwards, after a period where it had begun to level off. For the top 20 athletes to all improve in a season is suggestive of a systemic change, possibly in training, possibly nutrition, possibly equipment (imagine what swimming's graphs will look like one day!), possibly increased exposure of athletes. Or, quite possibly, doping, and the co-incidental timing of EPO becoming commercially available and this drop-off is quite difficult to ignore.

NOT proof of doping, but a flag for intelligent testing

Is this an indication of EPO use among elite distance runners? We don't know. It could be. But there are many other reasons that may explain why the records fell suddenly. This is the challenge with performance analysis. Please read this before sending in the hate mail and criticizing my cynicism, because I must emphasize that this kind of analysis does NOT prove doping! As Schumacher states in the paper, there are many other factors that could explain why performance suddenly improves, so one must be careful not to infer doping without acknowledging a wide range of potential contributing factors.
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2009/08/performance-analysis-weapon-against.html
 
Mens Hockey World Cup currently on India. Kookaburras have gone in to the tournament as favourites (as usual) but currently trail 2-1 at half time to Spain in their QF. Were down 2-0 with 6 seconds left in the half too.

There's been some decent upsets in the crossover matches to qualify for the QFs too. South Korea beat Argentina and NZ beat India to knock them out which has upset the home fans.

Edit: Kookas won 4-3. Charter with a penalty save with 4 minutes left to stay in front. Australia keep their record of having not missed a World Cup semi final since 1975.
 
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PoopingHindi said:
nothing about his progression screams drug user.
he improved his PB by 1.4 seconds in the last 7 years to a very good but not exactly stellar 1:44.0…all done in reasonably small, easily explainable increments.

also, my understanding is that EPO clears in less than 48 hours so why not just dodge the test and get a whereabouts failure instead?

I’m not saying he’s clean but it does seem a little odd.
Click to expand...
They may have caught him in a situation where he couldn't hide from the DCO such as out in public at training and to refuse to give a sample would be an instant ban.
 
I've been trying to find out exactly what happened with Bol's sample test, but there is very little clarification because of the way the whole legal protection of the athlete system developed by WADA and their member organisations. This is probably the most succinct media story out there.

thewest.com.au

Why is Peter Bol’s failed doping test such a big deal?

Sport and athletics fans have been left in shock this week after West Australian Olympic hero Peter Bol was suspended from competition for failing a doping test. But what exactly is EPO?
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au

How is it taken and how is it detected?​

Synthetic versions of Erythropoietin can be injected much like insulin, making it relatively simple to use, but there are multiple ways it can be detected.

A General Practitioner can authorise blood tests to check on EPO for everybody, but athletes, for the most part, are tested through urine samples as a direct test to identify the presence of EPO.

But they also give a blood test that can show sustained use of EPOs, which is known as an indirect test.

There are five bands, or categories, that show how high the levels are, and Bol is reportedly only just in the lowest band.

The substance is detectable for up to a week after being injected and tests are very thorough but false positives are possible in post-exercise, protein-rich urine, or in the case of contamination.

A third detection method in the pipeline will look for the effects of EPO in the body’s cellular anatomy as the practice is stamped out

Given there is very little reporting of what exactly the test detected, and Sports Integrity Australia ( the body that replaced ASADA) can't make any public comment until after the B sample has been tested, I reckon they haven't found EPO in Bol's system but his haematocrit level is high. One report I found mentioned elevated level of EPO, and The West's story above hints at that.

So my first post was based on my understanding that he was found with EPO in his system, but it is looking like its an elevated level. The media reporting said his failed a drug test because he had EPO in his system. That's why my first response was well it doesn't get in there by accident and because the reporting didn't talk about the levels of EPO in his system, I assumed he actually tested positive to EPO.

Eg there is a normal range of testosterone level for both males and females and sometimes they don't detect testosterone in the sample but the levels are abnormal. This is why WADA and its member organisations, introduced blood doping passports, to record variations. Its called a Athlete Biological Passport rather than blood doping passport, but its mainly built up from blood samples but also from urine samples.

www.wada-ama.org

Athlete Biological Passport

The fundamental principle of the Athlete Biological Passport
www.wada-ama.org www.wada-ama.org
The fundamental principle of the Athlete Biological Passport (ABP) is to monitor selected biological variables over time that indirectly reveal the effects of doping, rather than attempting to detect the doping substance or method itself.

Anti-Doping Organizations (ADOs) can integrate the ABP into the larger framework of a robust anti-doping program in order to:

  • Identify athletes requiring further attention through intelligent and timely interpretation of Passport data. The ABP provides valuable information that can be used to direct anti-doping activities such as Target Testing or investigations more effectively; and
  • Pursue possible Anti-Doping Rule Violations (ADRVs) in accordance with Article 2.2 (Use or attempted use by an athlete of a prohibited substance or a prohibited method) of the World Anti-Doping Code (Code).

The guy that led the AIS team to develop a urine test for EPO in time for the Sydney Olympics is Dr Robin Parisotto.

In his 2006 book, Blood Sports - The inside dope on drugs in sport, he quoted a paper by a Prof Bengt Saltin that the haematocrit levels of elite athletes was around 42-43, but had surged to 50 by the late 1980's, within a couple years of EPO being available to consumers. The Prof concluded this difference meant the doped athletes had 30% more oxygen in their blood and gave them a huge advantage.

Haematocrit is basically the red blood cells and the level measures the ratio of the volume of red blood cells to the total volume of blood.

The UCI in the early 2000's after the EPO test came in, set a maximum legal haematocrit level of 50, given nearly all elite athletes would fall in the 40-45 range. Its why micro dosing became a thing in cycling and then other sports like swimming, athletics, triathlon etc, where you need high VO2max reading.

There is always the odd genetic freak who will have naturally occurring abnormally high levels.

Bol should have an Athlete Biological Passport as World Athletics ( ie old IAAF) signed up to them years ago and his historical haematocrit levels would be registered in that. If as the story in The West says that he is "only just in the lowest band " then the level he reported will be compared to his historic levels.

If the legal limit is 50, and he records say a 50.7, and his Athlete Biological Passport says his normal levels over 5 years have been in the 47-49 range, then he has hope. If its in the 42-45 range, then he is in trouble.

Then again if he has been micro dosing, which is very common, he could well have an Athlete Biological Passport that says his normal haematocrit range is 47-49.
 
RussellEbertHandball said:
I've been trying to find out exactly what happened with Bol's sample test, but there is very little clarification because of the way the whole legal protection of the athlete system developed by WADA and their member organisations. This is probably the most succinct media story out there.

thewest.com.au

Why is Peter Bol’s failed doping test such a big deal?

Sport and athletics fans have been left in shock this week after West Australian Olympic hero Peter Bol was suspended from competition for failing a doping test. But what exactly is EPO?
thewest.com.au thewest.com.au

How is it taken and how is it detected?​

Synthetic versions of Erythropoietin can be injected much like insulin, making it relatively simple to use, but there are multiple ways it can be detected.

A General Practitioner can authorise blood tests to check on EPO for everybody, but athletes, for the most part, are tested through urine samples as a direct test to identify the presence of EPO.

But they also give a blood test that can show sustained use of EPOs, which is known as an indirect test.

There are five bands, or categories, that show how high the levels are, and Bol is reportedly only just in the lowest band.

The substance is detectable for up to a week after being injected and tests are very thorough but false positives are possible in post-exercise, protein-rich urine, or in the case of contamination.

A third detection method in the pipeline will look for the effects of EPO in the body’s cellular anatomy as the practice is stamped out

Given there is very little reporting of what exactly the test detected, and Sports Integrity Australia ( the body that replaced ASADA) can't make any public comment until after the B sample has been tested, I reckon they haven't found EPO in Bol's system but his haematocrit level is high. One report I found mentioned elevated level of EPO, and The West's story above hints at that.

So my first post was based on my understanding that he was found with EPO in his system, but it is looking like its an elevated level. The media reporting said his failed a drug test because he had EPO in his system. That's why my first response was well it doesn't get in there by accident and because the reporting didn't talk about the levels of EPO in his system, I assumed he actually tested positive to EPO.

Eg there is a normal range of testosterone level for both males and females and sometimes they don't detect testosterone in the sample but the levels are abnormal. This is why WADA and its member organisations, introduced blood doping passports, to record variations. Its called a Athlete Biological Passport rather than blood doping passport, but its mainly built up from blood samples but also from urine samples.

www.wada-ama.org

Athlete Biological Passport

The fundamental principle of the Athlete Biological Passport
www.wada-ama.org www.wada-ama.org
The fundamental principle of the Athlete Biological Passport (ABP) is to monitor selected biological variables over time that indirectly reveal the effects of doping, rather than attempting to detect the doping substance or method itself.

Anti-Doping Organizations (ADOs) can integrate the ABP into the larger framework of a robust anti-doping program in order to:

  • Identify athletes requiring further attention through intelligent and timely interpretation of Passport data. The ABP provides valuable information that can be used to direct anti-doping activities such as Target Testing or investigations more effectively; and
  • Pursue possible Anti-Doping Rule Violations (ADRVs) in accordance with Article 2.2 (Use or attempted use by an athlete of a prohibited substance or a prohibited method) of the World Anti-Doping Code (Code).

The guy that led the AIS team to develop a urine test for EPO in time for the Sydney Olympics is Dr Robin Parisotto.

In his 2006 book, Blood Sports - The inside dope on drugs in sport, he quoted a paper by a Prof Bengt Saltin that the haematocrit levels of elite athletes was around 42-43, but had surged to 50 by the late 1980's, within a couple years of EPO being available to consumers. The Prof concluded this difference meant the doped athletes had 30% more oxygen in their blood and gave them a huge advantage.

Haematocrit is basically the red blood cells and the level measures the ratio of the volume of red blood cells to the total volume of blood.

The UCI in the early 2000's after the EPO test came in, set a maximum legal haematocrit level of 50, given nearly all elite athletes would fall in the 40-45 range. Its why micro dosing became a thing in cycling and then other sports like swimming, athletics, triathlon etc, where you need high VO2max reading.

There is always the odd genetic freak who will have naturally occurring abnormally high levels.

Bol should have an Athlete Biological Passport as World Athletics ( ie old IAAF) signed up to them years ago and his historical haematocrit levels would be registered in that. If as the story in The West says that he is "only just in the lowest band " then the level he reported will be compared to his historic levels.

If the legal limit is 50, and he records say a 50.7, and his Athlete Biological Passport says his normal levels over 5 years have been in the 47-49 range, then he has hope. If its in the 42-45 range, then he is in trouble.

Then again if he has been micro dosing, which is very common, he could well have an Athlete Biological Passport that says his normal haematocrit range is 47-49.
Click to expand...
my understanding was though he has tested positive for synthetic EPO which is identified differently than naturally occuring EPO in the body
 
mighty_lions said:
my understanding was though he has tested positive for synthetic EPO which is identified differently than naturally occuring EPO in the body
Click to expand...
If that is indeed what the test revealed, then my first post about this, is what will end up happening to Bol.
 
The ACT Championships are on this weekend and hot weather and good conditions saw a slew of personal bests in sprint times.

Taswegian Jake Despard took out the men's 100m in 10.21 just pipping NZ's Osei-Nketia while Queensland's Ella Connolly took out the women's. Unfortunately a few of today's races were assisted by illegal winds, including Ella's 11.21.

In the junior sprints, young star Sebastian Sultana ran a cracking 10.32 while the first two in the junior women's race would have both set PBs apart from the wind assistance. Second place-getter Gabriella Taylor is the daughter of former star Melinda Gainsford.

In the field, Olympic silver medallist Nicola Olyslagers was in fine form, with a great series of jumps ending in three unsuccessful attempts at a new Commonwealth Record of 2.03m. Let's hope we see a few competitions with World Champion Eleanor Patterson later this season.
 
The World Cross-Country Championships are coming to Australia (Bathurst) in a couple of weeks. The first 'world level' athletics championships we have had in Australia for over 20 years.

Australia has a solid team and our mixed 4x2km relay team of Stewy McSweyne, Ollie Hoare, Jess Hull & Abbey Caldwell is a strong chance of a medal.

Hopefully a few of the overseas runners can be persuaded to compete in some of our Continental Tour meets once Bathurst is done.
 

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2 weeks ago Laura Peel took out the World Cup event for the first time since January 2022, with her triple flips in scoring 109.15 points, the highest-scoring jump of the season, and Danielle Scott was 4th. Overnight Scott won a World Cup event.

www.snow.org.au

Scott’s career best day continues Aussie gold rush in Deer Valley

Danielle Scott has produced the highest scoring jump of her career to win gold at the aerial skiing World Cup in Deer Valley, USA, making it three victories so far and the best performance for Aust...
www.snow.org.au www.snow.org.au
Scott then increased her degree of difficulty in the medal round, performing a lay-full-full, double twisting triple back somersault to score a massive 115.20 points, the highest scoring women’s jump of the season and the best of her career to claim her second victory of the season and seventh in her career.

 
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The Summer of Athletics heats up in Adelaide tomorrow night when the Aussie stars compete in the first 'Continental Tour' challenger meet.

Rohan Browning, Matt Denny, Ash Moloney, Georgia Griffith are some of the local names to watch out for while a few overseas entrants including Olympic 1500m Champ Matt Centrowitz (US) & Olivia McTaggart (NZL) will spice up the 800m & Pole Vault respectively.

There is good depth in the men's 100m with local hero Aidan Murphy relegated to the 'B' race along with Olympic decathlon medallist Ash Moloney and some other swift runners.

The meet (and some other upcoming meets) will be streamed on 7plus.
 
Not the greatest meet in Adelaide with swirly winds making it tough to achieve great performances in many events, but entertaining enough.

The live-streams have improved in quality too with more professional direction & commentary. Suspect Channel 7 had a role in this.

Bring on next week's World Cross-Country championships in Bathurst (to be televised on SBS Viceland) & the southern hemisphere's first-ever Continental Tour Gold meet - in Melbourne - to be broadcast on 7.
 
Sports Integrity Australia saying investigation into this case is ongoing.

So, his suspension has been lifted, but it might be some time until he is completely cleared.

Be pretty hard for him to get into shape though after a month or so of not being able to train. Plus the stress of all this (which may continue for some time while further investigation goes on).
 
Xtreme said:
It's not over yet!
Click to expand...

I hate to agree with Xtreme on anything but he's right in this case.

www.velonews.com

Cardoso EPO case highlights inequalities in anti-doping process

Despite an inconclusive B sample, Andre Cardoso finds himself steamrolled by UCI's anti-doping system, his career likely over.
www.velonews.com www.velonews.com

After Cardoso’s B sample returned an inconclusive reading, the UCI still decided to pursue a suspension. In a letter to Cardoso dated August 9, 2017, the UCI explained its decision and referenced WADA code 2.2.

According to the rule, a governing body can still pursue a ban even if the doping tests fail to produce a positive A and B sample. The rule is a powerful tool in pursuing possible drug cheats, as it allows WADA to ban a rider based on an admission of guilt, the statement of witnesses, or even evidence from police investigations. But the rule also allows governing bodies to throw out the results of an inconclusive B sample and simply reference the results of the A sample.
Click to expand...

Cardoso was eventually banned despite having an inconclusive B sample for EPO.
 
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