Online Poker Cash Games Is Rigged

[Coledinho]

Because all game play needs to be in one currency and the US has always been the main currency. There is talk going around that with the ban in the US the currency might be changed to the Euro which would be nice because it would mean the ABI would be higher and would lead to higher ROI

Of course it does, but you also need the choice. When the poker industry initially began you could choose between currencies and play on tables specifically for that currency. Infact ipoker network (maybe 888) was doing this up until recently where they would convert pounds into US dollars then reconvert it back into pounds once you were finished playing on a specific table

Just like the guy betting on a soccer match has the choice to play with a bookie in his currency over the net, why doesnt a poker player?

 

[FishCreekBandit]

Because it would effect game turnover if you were to add in a whole heap of new currencies. SNG's would barely run, MTTs would not be the same and cash tables would be 1/50th of the number. You cant compare apples and oranges

 

[Coledinho]

Because it would effect game turnover if you were to add in a whole heap of new currencies. SNG's would barely run, MTTs would not be the same and cash tables would be 1/50th of the number. You cant compare apples and oranges

In other words, it would a wider market (ie. more companies, more competition). Why would that have a negative impact on you? SNG only need a limited amount of people, they would run but at a slower pace.

Fact is the company doesnt define the pace you play at, you do. You could simply cancel this out by playing with more then 1 company. Alot of people bet on sports with more then one bookmaker because they all offer different odds. Why cant a poker player do the same?

All in all you are for a monopolised market which is crazy because such a marketplace only has negative connotations for the consumer.

ATM your more fearful of change, then the potential impacts that change could make.

EDIT: Im also not sure you get the full picture. You are playing in your currency still. Its just exchanged to fit the currency of that table at that given point of time and changed back into your own currency instantly after your game has finished. As I said other poker networks have done it before. It is possible. You can have AU money in your account and still play US money games...

 

[FishCreekBandit]

Run but at a slower place? Sounds like a nightmare to me. You bring in the changes you want and goodbye 40 tabling.

 

[Coledinho]

Run but at a slower place? Sounds like a nightmare to me. You bring in the changes you want and goodbye 40 tabling.

I severely doubt even that would happen, but that is a worst case scenario outlook. Looking into it more, other companies in the past have successfully ran a system that allow you to bank in your own currency but play in other currencys. The problem is obviously it is just less profitable for the company doing it that way hence why no one does it

 

[JuddsABlue]

Coledinho you sound like a smart guy but your knowledge of online poker is very small and it seems like you are just trying to stir a debate for the sake of it and you dont really know what your fighting for

Complaining/asking us why we dont want to play AUD and why its not available is absurd. The volume of Australian only players (you can even throw in the NZ players who would be willing to play on AUD) is so incredibly small I would be super pissed off if this became available.

Do this to all the other currencies in the world and you have an incredibly divided playing pool. There is no way you can play at the volume you want if you're a grinder. Most players would choose to play Euro anyway to play against the Euro fish (we already have that choice, but we choose US because before this big **** up there such a bigger fish to reg ratio in the us). Offering different currencies would defeat the purpose of online poker; the ability to play anywhere against anybody at anytime. If I want to play Australians from home I go to Crown

Fact is the company doesnt define the pace you play at, you do. You could simply cancel this out by playing with more then 1 company. Alot of people bet on sports with more then one bookmaker because they all offer different odds. Why cant a poker player do the same?

We do, we play on many sites with different rake and rewards. I have more poker accounts than I do bookmaker accounts.

If the playing pool is divided, recreational players wont be playing on various sites. Theyll be divided to their favourite single sites making the SnG and MTT even harder to get up. Its such an absurd idea.

 

[Coledinho]

Ive kind of mid changed my point JuddsABlue. Im not saying you should be able to play in all currencies but why not BANK in your own currency. As in after the game your money is converted to the currency of your choice.

What would be the harm in that for you?

 

[FishCreekBandit]

when you withdraw it is done in your own currency, so what is your point? It is the same as what you wish for

 

[Coledinho]

when you withdraw it is done in your own currency, so what is your point? It is the same as what you wish for

At the depreciated value you mean. ATM when you withdraw money based on money invested 4 years ago your getting a 25% or so loss on your money

If currency was changed on a day to day basis you would not get caught with the depreciation because simply your bank would rise with the currency meaning you need less money to play the US currency sit n go you wish to play. ie. at 70c you needed 15 dollars to pay a 10+50c sit n go but at 1.05 you need 10 dollars of the same currency to play a 10+50c sit n go

The only suggestion to avoid currency depreciation atm would be a daily withdrawal system but given the fees charged by financial institutions and poker companies to boot it would hardly be ideal

 

[paxmaniac]

It's called the free market. Coledinho, I hereby invite you to move to Malta and start your own online poker room, offering zero rake games and banking in 100 different currencies. If it's so easy, you should be dominating the market within 5 years.

 

[Borgsta]

At the depreciated value you mean. ATM when you withdraw money based on money invested 4 years ago your getting a 25% or so loss on your money

If currency was changed on a day to day basis you would not get caught with the depreciation because simply your bank would rise with the currency meaning you need less money to play the US currency sit n go you wish to play. ie. at 70c you needed 15 dollars to pay a 10+50c sit n go but at 1.05 you need 10 dollars of the same currency to play a 10+50c sit n go

The only suggestion to avoid currency depreciation atm would be a daily withdrawal system but given the fees charged by financial institutions and poker companies to boot it would hardly be ideal

What fees do poker companies charge?

 

[ashley12]

Im surprised no one is actually questioning the rake they take. ashley12 continues to suggest it is way better then the casinos/bookies/pokies but fact of the matter is well it isnt

A sit n go is 10% rake. Unlike a casino however your cash is stored in there system with withdrawals only allowed at there discretion. Technically they are borrowing your money. If said money was in a random bank account and not a poker holdings company you earn say 6% interest on it. You must also take into account the fall of the U.S dollar especially in a country like ours which has had a double banger effect with the rise of the AU. If you deposited 100 a few years ago and just left it there you have lost what 35-45% of your profit margin.

When you take into account the other revenue streams opened up by simply playing online poker and its no wonder the authorities are scrambling to ban it. Its a license to print money/mug everyone off, except no one has given them a license.

For every AU dollar you threw onto a online poker table technically the company has/could of earned a 60+% profit on it. With that taken into account why are they still charging such ludicrious amounts to play? Technically a company ran well enough could take a rake of zero and still make millions through foreign exchange and other means. The reason why is because its a monopolised industry where they can charge whatever they want. Not a place I want to be putting my money its fair to say

This is just complete cheese. Also, your being results orientated. What if the US $ went on a massive heater rather then the AU? Then my money would have increased in value over that time and then I would be rolling in FREE MONEY!11!11!1!!1

A moot point. If it wasnt a monopolised industry the rake would be what it should be. Zero. Theres no need for it in any form.

Why are so many people scared to mention Phil Iveys upcoming court case with FullTilt btw? IMO its just going to prove what a crock the system is. You have no rights other then to pay the fees. You have no access to your money, no right to choose currency, no right to choose a "real life" competitor. Nothing.

Surely you have heard of the term economic profit? There is no reason to pay you to work your job then, for me to pay for my pizza from Domino's, and no reason to pay my taxes.

The solution to the money issue is to only leave a certain % of working capital online in accounts rather then your entire net worth.

Ive kind of mid changed my point JuddsABlue. Im not saying you should be able to play in all currencies but why not BANK in your own currency. As in after the game your money is converted to the currency of your choice.

What would be the harm in that for you?

Okay, I want to play live poker in Australia using only the Euro rather then AU$. Tell Burswood to get on to it.

It's called the free market. Coledinho, I hereby invite you to move to Malta and start your own online poker room, offering zero rake games and banking in 100 different currencies. If it's so easy, you should be dominating the market within 5 years.

EZ business is EZ

 

[Walesy]

Surely you have heard of the term economic profit? There is no reason to pay you to work your job then, for me to pay for my pizza from Domino's, and no reason to pay my taxes.

I think the point trying to be made is that the poker mobs hold a truck load of cash- They don't just store this under a bed, it would be invested.

as such, how many accounts are on PS? What do you reckon the average balance of each account is?

Until the US bailed, what did stars have? something like 20 million accounts? more? Take an average balance of what- a conservative $10, and a conservative interest rate of 5%- and for just holding everyones money, they are bringing in $10,000,000 annually.

Change that average balance to any figure, and times it by a million and that's a conservative figure from what they rake in through just holding the cash. They make plenty- then take rake on top of it.

 

[Coledinho]

This is just complete cheese. Also, your being results orientated. What if the US $ went on a massive heater rather then the AU? Then my money would have increased in value over that time and then I would be rolling in FREE MONEY!11!11!1!!1



Surely you have heard of the term economic profit? There is no reason to pay you to work your job then, for me to pay for my pizza from Domino's, and no reason to pay my taxes.

The solution to the money issue is to only leave a certain % of working capital online in accounts rather then your entire net worth.



Okay, I want to play live poker in Australia using only the Euro rather then AU$. Tell Burswood to get on to it.



EZ business is EZ

Borgsta, all poker companies bar one (not sure if its PokerStar or Absolute) charge a currency conversion fee embedded into your deposit of between 0.8% to 2.5% for the shocking companies. They just dont announce it. ATM AU is trading at around 1.06, big companies like this would be buying it at say 1.08-1.10 and ontop of that they then charge a little bit more in a "just in case we didnt get money from you the first time" routine.

Now onto ashs point. Havnt you seen the Wall Street movies? The fall of the US dollar was one of the most heavily predicted financial events in recent memory. The chances of US currency going on a heater are about as good as Bulldogs premiership chances for 2011.

Thats a bandaid solution to a problem you have finally admitted exists.

Ive heard of economic profit but not too dissimilar to a bank they take that definition to a extreme. Like a bank they add in fees whilst using your money to make even more money. When I go to McDonalds and order a Big Mac they dont charge me for walking into the door, make me pay for how long I want to stay and then charge me when I leave. All the costs are right infront of me to see.

Stupid point is stupid. Burswood is government controlled and abides by the law. Poker companies arnt and dont.

You dont see the hypocrisy of trading in a currency that has deemed your business illegal? What is the reason for said hypocrisy? Oh wait the fall of the U.S dollar is the reason. Ive already explained to you that other small poker companies in the past have allowed play in multiple currencies (iPoker network have done it before) and simply convert the British pound/Euro back into US currency once you finished playing on the table. It is possible. Its just not as profitable. Like a casino they are out too rip you off. Unlike a casino they arnt limited to the extent they can do that however by a legal authority.

 

[Borgsta]

small still do the change Embers. also proof of charging for currency change?

 

[Coledinho]

small still do the change Embers. also proof of charging for currency change?

Just deposit $10 AU at any site and see for yourself. I tried that the other day on Full Tilt and they gave me 10.54 despite the fact the AU was trading at a minimum of 1.063 at the time. Im sure if you try it now you will get say 10.42 for your deposit despite the currency trading at 1.053 minimum (remember that like TravelMoney shops, poker companies are buying the currency at 1.08-1.10 due to there buying power)

 

[Borgsta]

ah so you assume it. cool

 

[Coledinho]

ah so you assume it. cool

WTF are you on about. The entire basis of foreign currency exchange is to rule out assumptions. Im making no assumption. We all know what the AU is worth at its minimum purchase price. I know that FullTilt when I tried to make a deposit offered me less then the mininimum purchase price. That means a fee was charged does it not?

Unless your saying poker companies are buying currency for less then the minimum purchase price?

 

[Borgsta]

You are assuming that they are buying currency at a higher rate)

 

[Coledinho]

You are assuming that they are buying currency at a higher rate)

You have to buy it at the very least the minimum. Im assuming they buy it at 1.08-1.10 due to the buying power I expect they would have. I have no proof of there inner workings but an educated guess can be made its safe to say.

Its like when you walk past one of those Travel Express tills, they have a we buy at say 1.11, we sell at 1.02. The AU is 1.053 atm but the chances that a poker company is the one paying that minimal amount is next to zero.

 

[Borgsta]

The AU is 1.053 atm but the chances that a poker company is the one paying that minimal amount is next to zero.

Kind of like the chances that you deposited $10 @ Full Tilt not long ago

 

[Walesy]

Borgsta- are you just arguing for the sake of it?

If I were to give you a $10 not, and you gave me $9.50 in change, I would *assume* that you pocketed the .50c.

 

[Naitawhoey]

Do you use FullTilt Borgsta? When you deposit with them it says 10AU then tells you how much USD that buys you before it is processed. Not that anyone uses FullTilt anymore mind you

PokerStars definetly doesnt charge any currency fees. They even brag about the fact they dont on its website and when you sign up with them

 

[paxmaniac]

Just deposit $10 AU at any site and see for yourself. I tried that the other day on Full Tilt and they gave me 10.54 despite the fact the AU was trading at a minimum of 1.063 at the time. Im sure if you try it now you will get say 10.42 for your deposit despite the currency trading at 1.053 minimum (remember that like TravelMoney shops, poker companies are buying the currency at 1.08-1.10 due to there buying power)

You do know that when you make a foreign currency transaction with a credit card the credit card company handles the currency exchange and exchange rate? The poker site makes exactly $0.00 on this transaction. Credit card companies (and every other business that exchange $$) buy and sell at different rates, because if they didn't they would be exposed to massive risks on moving currencies.

I use an eWallet for transactions to and from poker companies, and have never paid a single cent to a poker company for a currency exchange or transaction. Withdrawals are processed at the standard Mastercard exchange rate from $US to $AU.

 

[Borgsta]

I'm arguing because I know I'm right.