Autopsy Opening Rd - St Kilda v Collingwood

[Xxxx66]

We don’t necessarily have a weeks to give him.

I had the glasses on carroll a bit and Thought he was good. We should have just added another smaller defender.

 

[Xxxx66]

The non-pickups had me screaming as well. I think he kicked a belter off thE ground last game last year and is trying to re-create it. I reckon when a player kicks off the ground, more often than not it goes to the opposition.

Had a few bruise free moments... just needs more confidence in his body

 

[stavro#4]

NAS was gonna be the alpha but i also think footy has become absolutely obsessed with the idea of getting a Dusty for your team to really dominate. How many teams truly have that right now. Port - Butters, Pies- Daicos, Dogs- Bont GC-Anderson possibly Sydney with Gulden thats probably it? Callaghan isnt proven, Neal, Serong and McCluggage arent as "damaging" nor do they hit the scoreboard as much. Flanders is absolutely fine and compliments what we have. Hes not an issue IMO.

Selection integrity would call for Tauru and Wilson to be dropped but wed likely want to keep some team consistency and Roma is gone anyway, Wilson was at least creative even if he did have 4-5 absolute clangers.

Unless Tauru has a direct physical like for like match up he should go. He looked completely lost on Sunday night. We were row 2 forward pocket and when he was in front of us he needed ALOT of direction, was consistently second to the ball and spoiled team mates a few times.

Tauru and Nas’s issues on Sunday night are on the coaching group.

You are lacking a marking target and you literally have a beacon that attracts the ball aerially going MIA down back without a genuine match up.

Thrown forward in the last and was creating contests.

Same with Nas. Sat on and his impact went from causing some damage to MIA. Thrown back in the last and was involved again.

Have to throw the magnets around much earlier. Especially when the oppo has the run on.

I’d consider Tauru forward this week.

 

[stavro#4]

I had the glasses on carroll a bit and Thought he was good. We should have just added another smaller defender.

He didn’t really do anything. Like he wasn’t bad. But he wasn’t good. He was just meh and it’s a pivotal role that we need more from than just meh.

I said it earlier and I’ll repeat it again. If you are playing half back in modern football, you need to be dangerous with the ball and take territory.

He needs to bite off the corridor kicks. He needs to get on his bike when he collects on the fat side.

If he can’t or he won’t. It’s next man in and I’m not a huge fan of Clark. But I think he can do both.

 

[phantom13]

Tauru and Nas’s issues on Sunday night are on the coaching group.

You are lacking a marking target and you literally have a beacon that attracts the ball aerially going MIA down back without a genuine match up.

Thrown forward in the last and was creating contests.

Same with Nas. Sat on and his impact went from causing some damage to MIA. Thrown back in the last and was involved again.

Have to throw the magnets around much earlier. Especially when the oppo has the run on.

I’d consider Tauru forward this week.

Agree on both fronts. I dont like moving a 19 year key position player around week to week though. He again would have no match up against the dees as a defender and assuming Keeler comes in for Marshall im not sure he helps much up forward either.

If were playing him its purely about trying to maintain his confidence in being a ones player, on merit and match up he doesnt have a spot IMO.

Play NAS off half back again too. We have a good midfield rotation now and hes much better looking up scanning and attacking the game. If hes flying roll him through the midfield but honestly HBF and HFF are all around the ball anyway, who cares where hes starting if were getting him the ball.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

Not to mention the inconsistency experienced by those who would otherwise be playing in the same area of the ground.

I still think his most damaging and hardest to shutdown coming off halfback play him for a few bursts through the middle

 

[stavro#4]

Agree on both fronts. I dont like moving a 19 year key position player around week to week though. He again would have no match up against the dees as a defender and assuming Keeler comes in for Marshall im not sure he helps much up forward either.

If were playing him its purely about trying to maintain his confidence in being a ones player, on merit and match up he doesnt have a spot IMO.

Play NAS off half back again too. We have a good midfield rotation now and hes much better looking up scanning and attacking the game. If hes flying roll him through the midfield but honestly HBF and HFF are all around the ball anyway, who cares where hes starting if were getting him the ball.

When Tauru flew up the draft boards in his draft season. It was off the back of spending one quarter down back and another up forward.

He was winning matches at both ends. I understand it’s harder in the big boy stuff. But he obviously thrives in those situations.

I don’t necessarily need nas settled. He should be moved around as the game ebbs and flows - he is paid the big bucks and should be able to adapt now.

 

[FQFjt]

I really didn't like the amount of time Nas spent standing in the goal square, for two reasons.

First, it removed him from the game, he had no impact, and in that sense was a massive own goal.

Second, his presence there reminded me of the King days, where every entry was directed to Nas at the expense of the other forwards. Like King, his presence had a magnetic force that was too hard to resist.

 

[FQFjt]

I see a Hunter Clark

11

Hunter Clark

Age

27

Ht

186cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.5

4star

K

9.5

4star

HB

8.0

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.3

3star

D

16.0

4star

K

9.6

4star

HB

6.4

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.9

4star

CL

1.9

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

shaped hole in our best 23.

So much of our ball movement was frenetic, rushed, scrappy. Everything that Hunter is not. We could really have used his time and space and creativity. Yes he is not a speedster, but as the old cliche goes, the ball can move a lot faster than any player can, so the players that move the ball effectively should never be underestimated.

 

[peanut_muppetry]

I had the glasses on carroll a bit and Thought he was good. We should have just added another smaller defender.

Agree, good closing speed.

I'd be looking a Travaglia as the Geary type defender. Competitive, fast, agile and can compete in a marking contest. Would be a great back pocket.

We will continue to struggle against smaller forward lines if we go with what we had on Sunday. (although we kept them to

Stocker is ok but doesn't seem nimble enough to do that role.

Lastly on the Pies game for context the were the no.1 defensive team last year - We have a bit to learn but we created chances and could have had them, just need to have more composure. Hope we can bounce back this week and there isn't a big emotional letdown for the players as it has been for us fans with the huge build up.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

The heat is coming on Lyon and Nas and rightly so. Lyon was completely out coached by McRae and Nas couldnt handle the tag. You put your hand up for 2M a year you are going to get questioned when you don't perform.

 

[beside the seaside]

The heat is coming on Lyon and Nas and rightly so. Lyon was completely out coached by McRae and Nas couldnt handle the tag. You put your hand up for 2M a year you are going to get questioned when you don't perform.

It's one game. If we take our chances we probably win and no one cares.

If we lose this week the heat will be justified.

 

[Rogue Warrior]

nah it's not cheating (I know you put it in quotes for a reason).

every time we lose composure, we start collapsing in to the contest. in the first quarter last night we weren't doing it, but it got worse as the game went on.

basically if you have more than 2 guys at the coalface trying to win the ball in any given contest, they're just going to get in each other's way and reduce the number of options after the contest.

symptoms of that are:

• gang tackles of an oppo player when they do get their hands on it
• Saints players giving little handballs to other Saints players also under pressure
• the ball coming out to an oppo player on their own
• a Saints player winning the footy but giving it straight back because the next link in the chain is missing
• a Saints player bombing the ball without looking because the next link in the chain is missing

it happens least at centre bounces (obviously) and that's why we can be pretty effective there, but around the ground it gets messy fast. the boys freak out and all try to win the footy themselves, 3 or 4 or 5 of them in contests. we end up with lots of tackles and contested possessions and clearances but minimal impact.

watch the replay and you'll see heaps of it. happens in basically all of our losses.

keeping structure around the ball is the absolute most important thing for Harvs to coach into them.

The term “cheating” in this context is a widely used football expression for running forward of the contest when the ball is still in dispute. It’s not a criticism, it’s a tactic. Higgins kicks a heap of goals utilising this very tactic.

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

We have a few inside mid.options e.g. Boxshall, Clark, Flanders, Hall, Macrae, Phillipou
Think Garcia isnt needed in there at this stage.
We definately need a med.to small lockdown defender, dont think slow Stocker is it.
Garcia ticks off a few boxes for that role, e.g. puts pressure on, quick & a neat kick.
Worth a try rather than dropping him because our inside mids are stacked.

Dont know that Butler & Howard are available yet?
They didnt play in the vfl praccie game
Or would still be underdone like Wood was.

No shock with Marshall, has never showed much as a forward

Dont think they will want to just yet but if they want to replace Marshall,
192cm Banfield is knocking on the door.
Can play wing & forward.

Dont need Tauru's height in a back-pocket atm.
Could swing him forward where we do need height.

Carroll was ok, but we could do without & cover him with someoone else
Clark is more versatile.

Ins. Clark, Keeler

Outs. Marshall, Tauru

 

[bergholt]

Dont think they will want to just yet but if they want to replace Marshall,
192cm Banfield is knocking on the door.
Can play wing & forward.

like the look of him but he had 4 touches in the pre-season game (admittedly in 35% game time) and zero impact except the gifted goal. not sure he's quite ready yet.

 

[Diehard Saint]

The heat is coming on Lyon and Nas and rightly so. Lyon was completely out coached by McRae and Nas couldnt handle the tag. You put your hand up for 2M a year you are going to get questioned when you don't perform.

As the commentators said, Daicos couldn’t handle a tag initially either.
He’ll learn, and hopefully the coaches and his teammates will help him out as well.

 

[AirWinmar]

He’s not a ruckman, in fact he’s not much of anything except flashes here and there.

Play Dodson assuming he’s fit, bring back stocker and hunter Clark if fit.

Clark actually woukd have been very handy down back. Think we had 1 too many kpds too

 

[Kennedy84]

Had a few bruise free moments... just needs more confidence in his body

I'm not sure he realises how solid he is now. He's got that rare trait of elite endurance and the ability to build muscle.

I think if he went in with a mindset of playing like a rugby player, Pick it up, evade and run. Then we'd likely see some pretty good returns.

 

[AirWinmar]

I do think I'd prefer Howard in and Caminiti forward over Keeler. I think Keeler is more of a Sharman/Owens replacement rather than a key forward. Or a key defender if absolutely needed for tall matchups due to injury. Or ruck if no Marshall or TDK.

One major issue last night was multiple forwards all going up for the mark and giving themselves no chance. Putting Hammer forward is definitely not going to help that.

 

[AirWinmar]

I've heard a few annoyed at this presser. I think he's spot on... a bit more composure, we win.

I reckon Ross deliberately didnt to tag to get a look at how we go head to head and see what their game looks like and how our defence stacks up

 

[akaifu]

One major issue last night was multiple forwards all going up for the mark and giving themselves no chance. Putting Hammer forward is definitely not going to help that.

How can we know that?

Firstly, we haven't seen Hammer play as a forward since his move down back. We all know playing on the opposition's best forwards normally helps forwards improve their game. Surely after such a long time Hammer has learned a thing or two about leading patterns and forward structure. We won't know until we try it

Secondly, after watching both in person and the replay, I feel like without a focal point on the weekend, there was a lack of trust between our forwards in who was going up for the mark. Sharman and Owens compete well but they dont have that commanding presence so Higgins/Ryan feel like they have to take some responsibility too. If it was King going for those marks, absolutely no chance that happens. Caminiti is no King, but he's a massive guy and I feel like the others would have more respect for him when he goes up for the mark. Then Higgins/Ryan can actually do their job, which is to crumb contests

In saying that, I feel like the likely scenario is that Keeler comes in but I really hope we at least try Hammer forward because he's certainly not looking likely as a defender

 

[phantom13]

When Tauru flew up the draft boards in his draft season. It was off the back of spending one quarter down back and another up forward.

He was winning matches at both ends. I understand it’s harder in the big boy stuff. But he obviously thrives in those situations.

I don’t necessarily need nas settled. He should be moved around as the game ebbs and flows - he is paid the big bucks and should be able to adapt now.

Dont really agree, he looked ****ing lost in general for the whole game, flying for marks and spoiling team mates isnt good no matter where it is.

Nas impacts off Half Back, roll him through some CBs but honesyly we should be rolling about 10 blokes through at different times.

 

[AirWinmar]

How can we know that?

Firstly, we haven't seen Hammer play as a forward since his move down back. We all know playing on the opposition's best forwards normally helps forwards improve their game. Surely after such a long time Hammer has learned a thing or two about leading patterns and forward structure. We won't know until we try it

Secondly, after watching both in person and the replay, I feel like without a focal point on the weekend, there was a lack of trust between our forwards in who was going up for the mark. Sharman and Owens compete well but they dont have that commanding presence so Higgins/Ryan feel like they have to take some responsibility too. If it was King going for those marks, absolutely no chance that happens. Caminiti is no King, but he's a massive guy and I feel like the others would have more respect for him when he goes up for the mark. Then Higgins/Ryan can actually do their job, which is to crumb contests

In saying that, I feel like the likely scenario is that Keeler comes in but I really hope we at least try Hammer forward because he's certainly not looking likely as a defender

Yeah that is true, he may have learnt better now, but the last time he played forward he was diabolical in spoiling the other forwards and being that it was an issue for us against the Pies imo, he wouldnt be the right option

 

[Xxxx66]

He didn’t really do anything. Like he wasn’t bad. But he wasn’t good. He was just meh and it’s a pivotal role that we need more from than just meh.

I said it earlier and I’ll repeat it again. If you are playing half back in modern football, you need to be dangerous with the ball and take territory.

He needs to bite off the corridor kicks. He needs to get on his bike when he collects on the fat side.

If he can’t or he won’t. It’s next man in and I’m not a huge fan of Clark. But I think he can do both.

I haven't seen the replay, but Carroll played the small defender role moreso than hbf from what l noticed. I think Hunter comes in anyway when he's ready but that might be another week or two, but that be more to release Windy I am guessing.

 

[gringo2011]

I’m not ready to throw the baby out with the bath water just yet

We won so many of the key stats, typically this will win you games

To have so many players off the boil and still be in it is a positive

This is 100% true but we have a hard start and if we lose 4 out of 5 it's a really long way back. We can't make excuses if we want to even get into the top 10 at this point. There is always next week but they have to win next week which isn't close to guaranteed if they don't stop making poor skill errors.