Opinion Opinions on the cheer squad

[SmackAdder]

SmackAdder, I'm sorry to hear that you are offended by the chopping/chanting chant. For myself, I have very fond memories of my Dad out in the backyard, chopping away with his tomahawk on the 'morning wood', then loading up the woodcart with firewood and morning wood for the stove inside the house. As my brothers got older, it was then their job, and I also enjoyed a bit of a go at chopping, but not a lot I had to do the girls chores inside. The axe and the big wood was a little too heavy for me as a kid, so the tomahawk was my 'thing'.

So when I see the chopping action, that's what I think of- happy times when I was a kid.
We also had a wood heater when I was older and, as my hubby worked away, I got to sneak out and do the woodchopping with nobody to tell me off

Good times.

It's all about point of reference for different people. My concerns around it are obviously based around the fact that this would be something that would be seen by a lot of people and not everyone might feel positively about it. And my preference would be not for the club to have controversy or negative feeling associated for reasons other than footy (I'm dreaming, I know, but we can try).

 

[Teriyakicat]

It's all about point of reference for different people. My concerns around it are obviously based around the fact that this would be something that would be seen by a lot of people and not everyone might feel positively about it. And my preference would be not for the club to have controversy or negative feeling associated for reasons other than footy (I'm dreaming, I know, but we can try).

Yeah, good point. Guess it would only be a small % who would take offence, due to the lack of knowledge of origins as you've outlined above (I won't say ignorance because that implies stupidity these days)- but a small % can make a very loud noise.

The chopping on its own wouldn't be offensive - would it?
Maybe just 'chop chop chop for Tomahawk' when he goals, chopping into the hand, short and sharp, without the low-sung chant of the video? (or was that discussed up higher in the conversation and already marked as offensive? I know I read parts last night but I was in the middle of two conversations and a thread at the same time, so don't have perfect recall)

 

[SmackAdder]

Yeah, good point. Guess it would only be a small % who would take offence, due to the lack of knowledge of origins as you've outlined above (I won't say ignorance because that implies stupidity these days)- but a small % can make a very loud noise.

The chopping on its own wouldn't be offensive - would it?
Maybe just 'chop chop chop for Tomahawk' when he goals, chopping into the hand, short and sharp, without the low-sung chant of the video? (or was that discussed up higher in the conversation and already marked as offensive? I know I read parts last night but I was in the middle of two conversations and a thread at the same time, so don't have perfect recall)

No, personally, I don't think the chopping on its own is a problem sans chant. Even combined with one of the other songs or something that people were proposing (although people might get confused about what the chopping's about if there's a random song being sung).

 

[Teriyakicat]

Just had a thought- might be done/said elsewhere as it's a bit obvious/cheesy- when someone kicks a sausage roll, sing the old AC/DC parody "It's a long way to the shop if you want a sausage rooooollllll !!!!"

 

[Teriyakicat]

No, personally, I don't think the chopping on its own is a problem sans chant. Even combined with one of the other songs or something that people were proposing (although people might get confused about what the chopping's about if there's a random song being sung).

They could work "Tomahawk" into the beginning and end, tying the chopping into the song. Easy to work something out.

 

[Cyclone Larry]

Re-watching the foxfooty version of the Cats v Pies match, you can hear the cheersquads post goal chants clear as day due to the Channel 7 ads between goals and fox just having crowd audio until the break finishes.
I know a lot of people find the "player player player oi oi oi" chants cringeworthy but I don't have a problem with it. Just wait until Kolodjashnij kicks his first goal and they try to pronounce his name

 

[vealesy]

Were, being the operative word in your sentence. They aren't any longer and have not been for quite some time, and were not even at that level when the chant was started in the first place. It was based on a preconception that ignorant Americans of the time just happened to have.

My comparison was actually about the Chiefs using it and its relevance in American culture and what it would mean in Australian culture if an Aussie team did it. Just for your reference.

The chant has history in American sport, I would not say that automatically translates on a global level. I also don't believe that you should use it just because history. There are a lot of historical things that just wouldn't be acceptable now.

I, for one, would be offended by it. Some indigenous peoples feel a certain level of kinship with indigenous peoples from other nations, so I'd suggest there would be some Aussies who also wouldn't be pleased with it.

Im indigenous to this country. No big deal to me.

Its not like the chant is racist if used for TomaHawkins. The ideal name to chant it comes along and some flogs get offended.

Did Stokesy get offended when Mots and Vards said his lookalike is Asian on their latest club produced instalment?

Did you?

 

[vealesy]

Hahahaha wow. Log off buddy.

Why?

I haven't found a stereotype yet that wasn't accurate to an extent.

Are you saying they were peaceful, advanced and mute?

 

[SmackAdder]

Im indigenous to this country. No big deal to me.

Its not like the chant is racist if used for TomaHawkins. The ideal name to chant it comes along and some flogs get offended.

Did Stokesy get offended when Mots and Vards said his lookalike is Asian on their latest club produced instalment?

Did you?

Note my usage of the word "some". You may not be offended but I doubt you'd say you represent the feelings of all indigenous people here or worldwide, so I don't think we can just assume everyone would be fine. In fact, knowing the way people tend to be, we're much better off assuming there will be some who won't be.

It's the usage of it in conjunction with the motion that's the problem. Separate one from the other and it's significantly less of an issue, as I already noted. I don't have an issue with the name Tomahawk for Tom Hawkins, it's the stuff around it that people are insisting upon that's the problem.

I don't actually see what there is to be offended by in saying that Stokes physically resembles another individual. Physical characteristics of one person, as compared to another singular person. Are they saying all Aboriginal people look like Asians? Doubtful.

Stereotypes are formed for a reason, largely due to the human inclination to form rules of heuristics. It's the application of stereotypes at times that has become a problem because the application of it by some people disregards the fact that an individual may not fulfil that stereotype. Taking advantage of stereotypes and promoting them, in ignorance or not, can then engender certain mindsets in people who don't know better, which propagates inaccurate impressions of individuals simply because they belong to certain people groups.

 

[kickazz]

fond memories of my Dad out in the backyard, chopping away with his tomahawk on the 'morning wood'

ouch

 

[vealesy]

So what does that have to do with TomaHawkins?

A tomahawk is a small axe used to chop things. It just so happens that other sporting codes happen to have a exceptionally fitting chant with a chop motion. Its not racist, its history.

If we cater to every minority that gets offended by drawing long bows (pun intended) we might aswell nuke the planet now.

Heres a fun fact. Anzac day offends me, as does Australia Day. Should we stop that tradition because a minority is offended? No. I just stfu about it and dont participate.

 

[Teriyakicat]

ouch

Hahahaha! Perhaps I should've called it "kindling"
Oh boy, those days of innocence have long gone, haven't they? Lol. Good pick up!

 

[SmackAdder]

So what does that have to do with TomaHawkins?

A tomahawk is a small axe used to chop things. It just so happens that other sporting codes happen to have a exceptionally fitting chant with a chop motion. Its not racist, its history.

If we cater to every minority that gets offended by drawing long bows (pun intended) we might aswell nuke the planet now.

Heres a fun fact. Anzac day offends me, as does Australia Day. Should we stop that tradition because a minority is offended? No. I just stfu about it and dont participate.

One other sporting code uses it, and it's one of a few NFL teams that is now getting flak for their team names and the practices that have resulted. History, and the people in it, can be racist. Just because a practice is historical, does not preclude the possibility that it's also racist. Mobs used to lynch people because of the colour of their skin. Is that considered not racist because it's history?

The chant is only considered fitting because it slots in nicely with the (accurate) perception that (some) Native American Indians used tomahawks, and people have placed their (inaccurate) interpretation of what they think a Native American chant would be and paired it accordingly. Show me some proof that the chant in that video was actually used by an actual Native American tribe before the 1900s. I'll happily concede the point.

 

[vealesy]

I never said it was.

Its not just one sport. The atlanta braves used to do it too.

Inb4 ZOMG Braves is racist!

 

[SmackAdder]

I never said it was.

Its not just one sport. The atlanta braves used to do it too.

Inb4 ZOMG Braves is racist!

They're actually getting flak for it as well. Cleveland Indians, too, particularly re: their mascot. I can give you a complete list if you want to go down that path.

So, someone's version of what they think a minority group would do when using a weapon they (allegedly all) used which is most likely not accurate and based from stereotypes. What part of that isn't racist?

 

[vealesy]

Oh ffs.

Im walking away.

Im blonde with blue eyes and im better than all of you.

 

[SmackAdder]

Well, I'm not blonde or blue eyed, I actually belong to multiple minority groups. But congratulations on your feelings of superiority, they're obviously serving you well.

 

[manboob]

#itwasajoke

 

[SmackAdder]

With the way the conversation had gone, I was 50-50 on level of seriousness.

 

[vealesy]

If the issue was so serious then why are professional sporting organisations not changing things at once?

 

[thejester]

Why?

I haven't found a stereotype yet that wasn't accurate to an extent.

Are you saying they were peaceful, advanced and mute?

'Savages'.

 

[vealesy]

They were. Thats not necessarily an insult.

 

[thejester]

They were. Thats not necessarily an insult.

Yeah, nah. 'Savages' is a pejorative term mate. The fact you're using it shows why the use of caricatures of American Indians by sporting teams is a bad thing - it perpetuates an inaccurate stereotype. I'm sure gallons of ink and reams of paper have been used explaining why but I think this picture basically sums it up:

It's just cringeworthy and embarrassing.

 

[vealesy]

I disagree. Its no more embarrassing or cringeworthy than some of our "theatrical" supporters.

I have a pet cat and i am offended on her behalf.

Please change our history to keep the savages obedient.

 

[SmackAdder]

If the issue was so serious then why are professional sporting organisations not changing things at once?

I thought you were walking away. Ah well. They're not changing things because they're basically of the mind that it is a only vocal few and therefore their opinions can be discounted.

Let's face it, most sporting organisations the world over only care about the bottom line. By and large, they're businesses now. If it's not affecting profit margins, they don't care. Unfortunately, most of the people who are unhappy with this sort of thing, especially in the US, simply do not have the capacity to impact that. If you've lived in the US, you'll probably appreciate what I mean when I talk about how ignorant the general population is about Native Americans and what they're about, their living conditions and so on. As a result of this ignorance, they don't give a flying **** whose toes they or their team are stepping on because they never understood the origins in the first place. Might makes right, as is so often the case.