Opinion Our current pace look

[Partridge]

A work mate says Baldock was like that, so slow and gangly with his running pattern that his new teammates thought he was the St Kilda runner at training and not until they began doing the drills and competitive work did they realize who he was (true story)

An older mate of mine who's a Richmond supporter said he was the best player he'd ever seen until Gary Ablett senior. That attribute you speak of was one of his main reasons. Said his skills and football vision was ridiculous, especially for the time.

 

[FredLeDeux]

An older mate of mine who's a Richmond supporter said he was the best player he'd ever seen until Gary Ablett senior. That attribute you speak of was one of his main reasons. Said his skills and football vision was ridiculous, especially for the time.

You couldn't describe him as "gangly", but he certainly wasn't the most fluent runner you've ever seen.
However he definitely had "football vision"; in common with many great players, he knew, ahead of everyone else, where the ball and the other players were going to be, what they were going to be doing, and what he could do about it.

 

[witsend]

I want some help with this opinion. Some thoughts over the next few weeks maybe.

But I was messaging Veedubs during the game on the weekend and I said this.

"I saw a comment by one of the players last week that we have been working on movement from the contest. I have not seen anyone pick up on it. We are incredibly explosive.

Almost like we are front running ala blight days

I reckon that's what the whole north training experiment was about.

i.e. if we front run, will we get exposed out the back and how do we stop it?
Well that's my guess."


When I say front run I mean that it appears that 4 or so players are just taking off a hell of a lot earlier than usual from a ball up.
My thoughts are that this creates a secondary contest area on the ground.

i.e. We win it and just flick it to the pack of front runners.
Either their opponents are with them and we fight for it again as we stream forward or we are through any zone and we smash them.

And if it comes off you aren't going to need to win as many stoppages as previously.

It's a very early theory as I've only seen 1 game. Way too early really, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

It's why I thought we looked quick and it's what I'll be looking for this week.

There were some very "2007"-ish goals and movements forward. We were rightly criticised last year for our poor spread from the contest. It's like we were trying to be Brisbane 2001, big bodies at contest but we became slow and predictable. We seem to be getting numbers back now and playing a Sydney/Hawthorn-esque "sling-shot" footy plan. I like it, as it is initially more defensive but offensive once possesion is established. Run and carry. Makes sense of why guys like Smedts and Murdoch seemed to be fast-tracked, and why TV is starting more down back.

 

[cynical]

We are transitioning to youth so it's logical to go back to a faster game style. The 2009-2012 teams were bigger bodied but slower. We had sprinklings of pace with wojo and varcoe but you couldn't say our team was quick.

With all the focus on defense around the comp it makes sense to go back to a fast paced attacking style especially with fast players like Varcoe, Motlop, T Hunt, Smedts, Murdoch.

Our forward line is probably the best structually in the comp. Hawkins and Pods are 2 of the best contested markers going around and both aren't too shabby on the lead or 1 on 1. Smedts looks like he can play that quick leadup forward role that can really dominate with fast breaks. Having guys like Chappy and Bartel down there also benefit from quick breaks those guys are both great 1 on 1.

Defensively we are a bit slow which is a bit of a worry but if we have Varcoe back there it's not so bad. Taylor and Rivers both read the play really well which helps a lot if we get killed in the centre.

 

[Jon Douglas]

Good point C - it is just logical that as you transition to a younger side - it is likely you will bring leg speed.

So you take advantage of any qualities of the team have over an opposition team. I do not kow other teams well enough to know who they have coming thru that have added leg speed to their side that may negate us somewhat as we get become a quicker team by foot.

It seems from all accounts the game has quickened up - and partly as clubs test for many attributes including quick hands and legs - and this helps inform them of who they will select in a ND.

Whatever the case GFC will be quicker this year and certainly in 2014 season.

The only area we look to be slow is the backline - but the players there seem to do ok without it. In time we will get a quicker player down back at some stage.

As far FS mentioning all the players we have who are quick - that maybe - but I was talking about real leg speed (compared to the general footballer). Where this attribute is a major key to their effectiveness - like Wojo.

However the fact these players you mentioned are quick in their own way is also important for the team to be a fast team overall. This allows for more break aways, in slowing the opposition coming forward and in getting turn overs. These things done well for a whole game make a big difference to the result of a match.

 

[footscore]

An older mate of mine who's a Richmond supporter said he was the best player he'd ever seen until Gary Ablett senior. That attribute you speak of was one of his main reasons. Said his skills and football vision was ridiculous, especially for the time.

yep, I often hear that when I ask some of the older blokes who saw him play, as you said...skills, vision, marking, he was a freak of the highest order who dominated week in and week out.
He was playing for the Tasmania seniors at only 14 yrs of age even though it's documented he debuted at 16, he had to lie to his mother and tell her he was playing juniors otherwise she would have pulled the plug on the whole thing (14yr old against grown men!)

 

[ProudCat]

Seeing the Cats live last weekend I did notice the pace element quite clearly, but the thing that really stood out to me was the 1 percenters. There were several great smothers and tackles and we really seemed to be switched on with the defensive side of the game. Something that I think has slowly declined over the last couple of seasons. Was very pleased to see it and I really hope they keep it up - our great sides worked both ways - we need to have a great defensive mindset and also a great attacking mindset. Need both to win flags IMO and from what I saw on Saturday, we certainly look to have the defensive side of things as a priority again. From where I sat, it was pretty much there for the entire game also which was very pleasing - 1st minute to last minute despite the score.

 

[The rabbi]

So Harry Taylor says as well. Let's hope so !

Harry Taylor is a good judge and a very agreeable man.
He agrees with me.

 

[Boxhead_31]

Interesting. We have a bunch of kids who are good by hand in heavy traffic.
Hmmm

Sounds familiar I remember whispers of the same about some of our younger players circa 2002/2003

 

[Turbocat]

Just who would be the quickest players-leg speed wize.

Murdoch
Varcoe
Motlop
Thunt
Thurlow?

 

[hbk_aus]

Don't think Thurlow is in their league pace-wise.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Just who would be the quickest players-leg speed wize.

Murdoch
Varcoe
Motlop
Thunt
Thurlow?

Wouldn't think Thurlow, but Blicavs and Stringer.

 

[Perthmadcatter]

Probably throw Bundy in there as well, deceptively quick

 

[FredLeDeux]

Probably throw Bundy in there as well, deceptively quick

Yeah, and Duncan.
We are definitely faster by foot, on average, than 2007-11.

 

[Turbocat]

Wouldn't think Thurlow, but Blicavs and Stringer.

Its why I asked the question , Im not really sure who would be #5

 

[FredLeDeux]

Its why I asked the question , Im not really sure who would be #5

Might depend upon the distance.

 

[i_need_a_pencil]

I like the sound of all this... thinking back to last year, our spread was pretty average.

This would certainly suit the older players and graduates of the 2007-2008 style of play, as well as suiting the assets of some of our younger guys.

I certainly noticed an abundance of playing-on, which I wasn't happy with at times because we got caught and put players in awkward positions. But if we are playing on effectively, with a set up ahead of the contest for support then I'm all for it!

At times against North, we were utterly blitzing them with run and movement from end to end.

 

[TheJimmyCartel]

Thurlow won one of the sprint sessions during the preseason.....

 

[footscore]

I like the sound of all this... thinking back to last year, our spread was pretty average.

dunno if it was average, reckon fans (definitely the media) didn't realize how quick some of our players actually were.
I remember reading the pre game threads before we played Carlton last year and it was mostly doom and gloom due to Carlton's speed which would supposedly blow us away at Etihad but since 2010, the team has been topped up with many speedsters, Bundy, Poodle, Motlop, Smedts, Duncan, Guthrie and Murdoch not to mention the VFL boys who will play a game or two as well.

 

[DanA]

I just think we've got a really balanced list this season. Not sure it's as talented as the 07 side but IMO it's better balanced, more so now than any time in our recent past.

 

[SJ]

I don't like a front-running style of game. It can look sensational throughout the season but it rarely stands up in finals or the grand final unless you have an elite list.

In some ways it's 'cheating', or rolling the dice and hoping you win far more often than you lose.

I actually noticed Hawthorn doing a lot in Round 1 2012 when they played Collingwood. I was interested in how they would bounce back after losing to the Magpies in an arm wrestle in the 2011 Preliminary Final. The amount of times Hawthorn would have free players completely open ahead of the ball was amazing! This meant when they won it (and they won it a lot, they have some great contested ball winners) they scored at will. However, on the flip side, the frequency in which they won the footy in these situations was probably reduced because of the lack of man power. As such they also got scored heavily against.

That night the final score was Hawthorn 20.17 to Collingwood 16.19. Very high scoring match these days. It worked that night.

It also worked for most of the season. But twice against Geelong, twice against Sydney during the season, and in the last two weeks of September, 'shut down' teams shut them down - resulting in either a loss or a very close win. Now if they were to play Sydney ten times, maybe they would win six. But I think it is very dangerous getting used to a 'cheating' way of playing footy and trying to score for six months, when you know that method will be far more difficult to play in September.

As for Geelong, I don't know if it is the best game plan for us - I don't really think we have enough extractors to give up men at the contest just so they can be in space elsewhere.

 

[DanA]

I don't like a front-running style of game. It can look sensational throughout the season but it rarely stands up in finals or the grand final unless you have an elite list.

In some ways it's 'cheating', or rolling the dice and hoping you win far more often than you lose.

I actually noticed Hawthorn doing a lot in Round 1 2012 when they played Collingwood. I was interested in how they would bounce back after losing to the Magpies in an arm wrestle in the 2011 Preliminary Final. The amount of times Hawthorn would have free players completely open ahead of the ball was amazing! This meant when they won it (and they won it a lot, they have some great contested ball winners) they scored at will. However, on the flip side, the frequency in which they won the footy in these situations was probably reduced because of the lack of man power. As such they also got scored heavily against.

That night the final score was Hawthorn 20.17 to Collingwood 16.19. Very high scoring match these days. It worked that night.

It also worked for most of the season. But twice against Geelong, twice against Sydney during the season, and in the last two weeks of September, 'shut down' teams shut them down - resulting in either a loss or a very close win. Now if they were to play Sydney ten times, maybe they would win six. But I think it is very dangerous getting used to a 'cheating' way of playing footy and trying to score for six months, when you know that method will be far more difficult to play in September.

As for Geelong, I don't know if it is the best game plan for us - I don't really think we have enough extractors to give up men at the contest just so they can be in space elsewhere.

I think this is where our balance is to our advantage. We're not going to cheat by cherry picking in fact I think our quick players will be judged more on defensive contribution. Varcoe, Murdoch & Smedts will no doubt bust a gut looking for fast breaks. But how effective they are in slowing down opposition attacks and ensuring pressure is always on the ball carrier will decide if we have spots for them and how successful we will be this season.

If you look at our back six:
Rivers Lonergan Hunt
Mackie Taylor Enright

Nobody is beating them in the contest, it's only leg speed IMO where we might get taken to the cleaners and this is where we need to stop quick entries. The importance of Varcoe, Smedts, Murdoch and T-Hunt in this regards is really important. We. Can't have a plodding. forward line. that let's opposition waltz out of our forward 50.

 

[cynical]

I don't like a front-running style of game. It can look sensational throughout the season but it rarely stands up in finals or the grand final unless you have an elite list.

In some ways it's 'cheating', or rolling the dice and hoping you win far more often than you lose.

I actually noticed Hawthorn doing a lot in Round 1 2012 when they played Collingwood. I was interested in how they would bounce back after losing to the Magpies in an arm wrestle in the 2011 Preliminary Final. The amount of times Hawthorn would have free players completely open ahead of the ball was amazing! This meant when they won it (and they won it a lot, they have some great contested ball winners) they scored at will. However, on the flip side, the frequency in which they won the footy in these situations was probably reduced because of the lack of man power. As such they also got scored heavily against.

That night the final score was Hawthorn 20.17 to Collingwood 16.19. Very high scoring match these days. It worked that night.

It also worked for most of the season. But twice against Geelong, twice against Sydney during the season, and in the last two weeks of September, 'shut down' teams shut them down - resulting in either a loss or a very close win. Now if they were to play Sydney ten times, maybe they would win six. But I think it is very dangerous getting used to a 'cheating' way of playing footy and trying to score for six months, when you know that method will be far more difficult to play in September.

As for Geelong, I don't know if it is the best game plan for us - I don't really think we have enough extractors to give up men at the contest just so they can be in space elsewhere.

Don't agree

Attacking teams that get undone by defensive teams usually dont have the cattle to play that style, they either have turnover merchants or guys who cant kick goals with enough frequency.

An attacking game plan during the season is good because it increases the probability that you beat weaker opposition, as our list is extremely balanced we should be doing this. (teams that aren't efficient with disposal or have weak forwards wont be able to counter very well)

We have some elite disposers of the ball in Varcoe, Mackie and SJ, guys like Duncan, Bartel and Murdoch aren't bad either. If they have time and space to hit a leading target more often than not they will.

Hawkins is a beast now and can kick straight. Chappy is an elite kick at goal as is Bartel, Pods isn't too bad. I would say our kicking for goal is a lot better than it was and our 2013 goal kicking efficiency should probably be towards the top.

If you have a team of workman like plodders without disposal efficiency and elite kicks then you will get killed with this game style because you will turn it over too often and allow the opposition to counter.

The Hawks team with Buddy is similar to our team with Gaza Senior too reliant on one guy.